Well, being French-Canadian, I feel they have the right to do so. It might seem silly to an outsider, but one must first consider Quebec's early history. Being the oldest province and first colony, with Ontario following. It was a highly attractive bit of land, and the British wanted it too, ie the colonial wars. The British wanted to drive them out. Once one understands that, then it becomes easier to see why they are so protective. Canada as a country is very impressionable. We absorb a lot from our friends in the south, and sometimes it's a bit hard to stay culturally unique. It's even harder for Quebec. Consider how hard it must be for someone French being surrounded by almost entirely English people. Eventually, if they don't constantly practice their native language they'll slowly become rusty. I know. It's happened to me. I used to be quite fluent in French, was surrounded by my French-speaking family and was able to keep it in practice, but don't practice much anymore because it's more out of reach for me now. Quebec has a rich history. Most of what we take for granted in Canada come from the province of Quebec, traditions and all. The province has a lot of really unique things about it, like a unique self-sufficient music industry in its own right, with a lot of it not heard beyond the province itself. So, the laws themselves, is not so much about the language itself. It's more about preserving the province's heritage and culture, which happens to include its language. With it being the oldest province, I think its earned a bit of leeway to do what it wants.
^ Oh, don't mistake my meaning, I'm not complaining about the existence of French...I mean, when I go to Montréal, of course I should expect to see French everywhere. I'm just a bit confounded as to why this has to mean a lack of English. Like I said...can't there be both? Laws promoting the use of French are entirely proper, but I don't see why those same laws have to restrict English (they actually have inspectors who go from business to business and, yes, issue citations to those who have too much English on their signs). Why does one language have to be suppressed in order to protect the other?
A few weeks ago I had a conversation with someone from Quebec on my computer gaming forum. She and I have had this back-and-forth for years, when we have one or two arguments per year, mutter and grumble about how neither can see the other pov, and in June we make it up and wish each other Happy St-Jean Baptiste Day/Canada Day and make peace for a few months, until something happens to bring out the Alberta/Quebec thing again. That conversation was about music. The folk musicians I grew up with - Stompin' Tom Connors, Gordon Lightfoot, etc. are people she never heard of until fairly recently. She listed a bunch of French-Canadian musicians, and the only one I ever heard of was Rene Simard. In some ways, Quebec and The Rest Of Canada might as well be separate countries... but there are the legal and constitutional issues. I don't know how old you are, but as I mentioned, I was a teenager when the PQ first got in. I cheered for Elijah Harper when he sat in the Manitoba Legislature and said "No" to the Meech Lake Accord. I voted on the "No" side when the Charlottetown Accord vote happened. I was relieved when Pierre Trudeau broke his silence during the referendum and spoke out in support of the No side. The deal-breaker was the "distinct society" clause. That was an attempt to put one province before all the rest, and that doesn't sit well, not to mention that the aboriginal peoples had a good point: If the Quebecois are a "distinct society," why shouldn't the FN peoples get that as well? Of all the people who live here, who should be more distinct than those whose land was overrun by the Europeans in the first place, and whose cultures were eroded and sometimes literally beaten out of the kids who ended up in the residential schools? Sorry, but "oldest province" doesn't quite work. There were four provinces that were included in Confederation on July 1, 1867. Quebec wasn't even the first part of Canada to be visited by Europeans. There's an archaeological site at L'Anse-aux-Meadows, Newfoundland that predates the late-15th century explorers by 500 years, when Leif Eriksson's people came from Greenland. I'm not dismissing Quebec's accomplishments. What I am dismissing is the attitude that the French language is in danger of going extinct next week if English isn't stamped out on signs everywhere, not to mention that parents don't have the choice of which language in which to educate their children if they themselves weren't part of the English-language education system there, and that English Canada needs to give in to every temper tantrum and threat. FFS, Trudeau wouldn't even speak English to a woman who asked him about anglophones being able to access mental health services in English! He could have translated his French words into English for the benefit of the non-francophones there, but he stuck his nose in the air and didn't bother.
Just to be clear...which Trudeau are you talking about here? Because I can't believe that Justin would ever act that way.
I am referring to Justin Trudeau, who refused to speak English to an anglophone woman who asked him a question about anglophones in Quebec being able to access mental health services in English. This happened at a town hall in Sherbrooke. Source. What a peach. Mental health services only available in French, and there are people who need them who can't speak French. The Prime Minister is asked about it in English and he only answers in French. That all by itself would be enough to convince me not to vote Liberal in 2019, if I hadn't already decided not to for a different set of reasons (no, I'm not voting Reformacon either; thank goodness we have two other federal parties to choose from). It's hard enough to discuss mental health issues in one's first language, never mind having to struggle in another. He did apologize... later, after he was told that he'd seriously pissed people off and disrespected a lot of anglophone voters. It's inexcusable that he wouldn't understand the importance of accessible mental health services, considering his own childhood was a mess partly because his mother was suffering from then-undiagnosed bipolar disorder.
@Timewalker, you mentioned Gordon Lightfoot...have you ever seen him in concert? He is my favorite singer of all time. I've been to two of his concerts (both in Omaha, where I live), which I enjoyed immensely, though I wish I'd got the chance to see him at Massey Hall in Toronto... speaking of which, I would love to see anyone play at Massey Hall, which looks like a fascinating place.
Interesting how it all goes back to music, isn't it? I actually recognize quite a few Quebecan artists, so perhaps I have the advantage of having one foot in each pond. A few years ago, our local summer music festival's theme was french musicians, and they had quite a few really good artists from the province. Some really good stuff out there just waiting to be found. Btw, I saw Stomping Tom's son perform last year. He was great. In some ways, he was even better than his Dad as he seemed to bring a lot of emotion and empathy to everything he sang, with interesting stories and perspectives about his Dad Yes, it's true. That just goes to show how much diversity as a country we do have, though. And I think it's great that they are quite different. Well, I'm a bit young in relation to the PQ, as I was born in 77, so I wasn't around then. You make some great points. I think there are certainly areas where they could improve. As for the FN, I agree. But that's not really specific to Quebec as it's happened nearly everywhere. I really wish they'd get better representation. These are the kind of lessons everyone needs to learn from. Sure, I guess I should have meant before confederation. Maybe territories? There was a time where there was very little claimed and Quebec was the largest of them. Some of the other territories joined later. As for L'Anse-aux-Meadows, wasn't that settlement more recently rediscovered though? They might have visited it first, but it took us a long time for us to understand what we were seeing, and I don't think settlers even realized the significance if they did notice it. Wonder what they would have made of it. Well, I have to admit some of their attitude is a head-scratcher for me too. I certainly don't fully understand why, and the french-only signs, and even the recent decision to only offer French greetings are puzzling, and I don't agree with. Those, especially the greetings, take things a bit too far one direction. I also don't really understand the sentiment behind wanting to separate, as I feel they have a lot to offer to Canada as a whole. Overall, what's the point? What would it offer? Nothing really. I'm just merely trying to understand and illustrate why things might be the way they are, that the attitudes might draw from those early days. Paranoid maybe? As for Trudeau, yeah, that wasn't the smartest move. He should have been more sensitive about it. Quebec be Quebec, I guess. He is from Montreal, of afterall...
Sadly, I've never been able to see him in concert. My city is halfway between Calgary and Edmonton, which means we usually get overlooked by the top performers. It's been a catch-22; they don't come here because we don't have the larger venues, and the larger venues haven't been built because without the top performers, what's the point? Sometimes (okay, most times), our local city council can be a pack of short-sighted idiots. I was first introduced to his music in my Grade 7 music class in junior high. The teacher had us listen to and learn "Early Morning Rain" and "Did She Mention My Name?". I've played the organ for most of my life, and play mostly by ear - if I listen to a song I like, I can pick it up and learn to play it. So that's what happened with these two Gordon Lightfoot songs... and my grandmother really liked them. There were times when she would specifically ask me to play "Early Morning Rain" for her. I do have to say that I prefer the Irish Rovers' version of "The Great Canadian Railroad Trilogy" over Lightfoot's version. Theirs is more expressive, and it's another song I picked up and learned. That must have been wonderful. I never saw Stompin' Tom in concert either, but my mother cleaned his motel room. He was passing through between appearances in Calgary and Edmonton in the early '70s and stayed the night at a motel along the highway, near the acreage where my family lived at the time. My mother was a housekeeper there, and mentioned that Stompin' Tom Connors had been there. I don't think she actually met him, though. It appears, then, that you're coming from a position of growing up with language police and not knowing a time when anglophone businesspeople weren't hauled into court and fined over a stupid thing like an apostrophe in the name of the business or signs that had the French words a centimetre too short. Quebec has had centuries to develop a sense of "self" as a culture, as the person on the other forum keeps telling me. Alberta has only been part of Confederation since 1905. However, my view is that while this is historically interesting, it's insufficient basis to make the older province more "elite" than the rest of them (I hesitate to use that word, given how it gets tossed around by the right-wing, but I can't think of a better one at the moment). The L'Anse-aux-Meadows site was discovered in 1960. According to Wikipedia, the locals thought it was the remains of Indian dwellings. When the Ingstads (Helge and Anne) started excavating, they realized that it was really a Viking settlement dating to approximately 1000 CE. I first read about this in high school (in the late '70s) and did one of my Canadian history term projects about it in college. What, they only greet people in French, now? O-kay... Not cool. There have been various reports in the news over the years of people needing emergency medical services and the personnel won't speak to them in English. One of these people was a pregnant woman who was in a car accident. She was so panicked that every scrap of French she knew just flew right out of her mind and she was trying to explain to the dispatcher what had happened... and they blew her off because she wasn't speaking French. Other people have said they were treated like crap in the hospital for not speaking French to the nurses. Naturally a hospital can't be expected to have staff fluent in every language, but to refuse to speak to a patient or a patient's family member in English? It basically says, "Speak French or go away." So I will stay away. It isn't what they have to offer Canada; it's what they think Canada owes them. As I said, it's like a child who says he wants to run away but still wants everything provided. The separatist politicians have convinced their voters that if Quebec separates, it can still use Canadian institutions (ie. banks, postal services, infrastructure, pension plans, currency, and a host of other things) but make its own totally independent decisions. Nope. It's one or the other. Having one's cake and eating it too doesn't work. That's something the western separatists need to understand, too. We do have separatists here, and they are some of the worst crackpots I've ever heard. They're among the people who were tossed out of the Reform Party because Preston Manning himself considered them unelectable and detrimental to his efforts to make his party seem respectable to voters outside of Alberta. So now there are two or three fringe separatist parties here, and they run the odd (sometimes really odd) candidate in some riding or other in federal elections. Strictly speaking, he's from Ottawa - that's where he was born. But he grew up in the French-Canadian culture, and according to an article I read a month or two ago, there were even specific floors or rooms in the house (I assume he meant 24 Sussex, for the most part) where he and his brothers were required to speak French. If they wanted to speak English, they had to go to a different part of the house. I guess that's one way to ensure the kids grow up bilingual. I wonder if Margaret was held to that standard as well. Montreal is more cosmopolitan. Quebec City is where things are more French and there's less patience with English-speakers.
I dunno who "they" are supposed to be...certainly not everybody in Montréal. I may not have talked to a lot of people, but those I did, always were very nice and spoke to me in English without any trouble. Of course I tried to look as American as possible (my Mets T-shirt probably gave it away* ) so I'm sure they could see me coming...like the waitress at Carlos & Pepe's who noticed right away that I was a tourist, given the large stack of Google maps I had splayed out on the table . And I would like to apologize because I seem to have caused this thread to take a rather dark turn with all the talk of the language laws and all that (which was my fault, 'cos I brought it up). I didn't mean to ruin the thread, this is supposed to be discussing good things about Canada...so I promise to think of as many good things as possible (of which there are many ). I really wanted to go to the planetarium (up near the giant tongue depressor from space which calls itself Olympic Stadium) but that thing in the subway delayed me too long. Definitely plan on rectifying that this May. Same goes for the Biodome and Vieux-Montréal, both of which I also didn't get time to see. Oh, and even though I was never an Expos fan, I hope they get a new version of the team up there. The exhibition games at the Big O always draw huge crowds. Clearly the fan base is still there. I bet if they could have gotten Labatt Park built, the Expos wouldn't have bolted for D.C. *I wore it because I made it a point to make a pilgrimage to Gary Carter Street .
I moved away from Canada in 2005, and now I feel like I have no idea what is going on any more. Things have changed so rapidly! I miss the smells most, it is hard to explain. It smells different where I grew up from where I live now. I miss the efficient snow plows. My neighborhood is very dangerous to drive in after it snows, whereas where I grew up in Canada they always had everything cleared by 6am (maybe it is different now though?). Things got worse since I closed down my facebook, I have practically no source of regular news now. It's strange moving somewhere else where you don't see the same things you were used to growing up. Things that seemed so important back then, no one cares about here at all. I will NOT eat pancakes with anything other than pure maple syrup! If it has any ingredients listed on the bottle, no way ...
Heh, sounds a lot like the situation we have here. Can't count the numbers of times performers have passed us over. For many of them, it's simply not convenient and out of the way. Our arena is an old one from the 60's and is in disrepair, and plans for a new one have been a long time coming. For awhile, we'd get a good group of performers, but eventually they just gave up. I remember I saw the Beach Boys (Well, Mike Love and the touring version of the band) and the air conditioning was faulty. It was really hot, and the band even complained. Upon entry to the concert, they were giving everyone towels, and soon I had realized why they had done so. The other thing, like I said is also the distance being inconvenient for their touring schedules. Throws them out of whack. I had seen Don McClean in concert at our summer music festival about 5 years ago now, and while it was a really great experience, I vividly remember him saying at the end, "I hope you've enjoyed yourselves, because I'm not coming back." Everyone was in shock. I remember thinking, if that's how he really felt, then why did he come here at all? Talk about ungrateful. Oh yeah, it was great. The great thing was that everything he played or said, was done with a twinkle in his eyes, and it was obvious he had a great fondness for his Father, but he was also just really good in his own right. I think it was a special tribute tour, but I'm hoping it's not the last. I would highly recommend seeing him if he goes out on tour again. If I see anything, I'll give you a heads up Speaking of Tom Connors, seeing as our city has a connection with him with Sudbury Saturday Night, a local artist made a statue that currently stands in front of the bar that he always played at when he came here. I don't currently have a picture, but if you look it up on Google, there are plenty, even with his son right next to it. Here's an article: https://www.sudbury.com/entertainme...ompin-ground-our-chat-with-taw-connors-678084 Oh, I'd heard of it. But I was young, so I didn't have much awareness of what it really meant. Most of my relatives were centered in the Ottawa area, so I'd get exposure to a lot of stuff. I had family in Aylmer (now Gatineau, because that was an English sounding name I guess?), so we'd cross the bridge often for visits, and I had more family in Ottawa proper. But I went to French school up through High-School. I remember a lot of it being ramped up in the late 90's. That's fair. I was struggling with how to put it into words, but I think that describes what I was trying to say pretty well. The sense of self, of culture, and perhaps belonging. And maybe there's a deep-set fear of it being taken away. When one has been around for so long, things start to get ingrained as part of culture. Will it ever change? I don't know, and perhaps we'll never really know. And btw, I admire the language and the culture, but not their policies. As for the Residential schools, have you read Joseph Boyden's Three Day Road? The subject is touched upon there, and it's quite a beautiful story, poetic at times. Anyway, it opened my eyes. Yeah, I suppose you're right, and I do apologize if it came out strongly. Yeah, good point, and I agree. I really shake my head at that, because I can't see what can be gained for it. Yeah, I meant that 1960's is rather recent in the grand scheme of things. I'm just unsure of the kind of significance or impact it would have had, given that it was far out on the point. Just how much contact would the Vikings have had? It doesn't appear that they had stayed for very long before realizing the land wasn't going to work for them, according to a documentary I watched. But it does bear some thought: What if they had stayed? Just how different things would be? Yeah, I think there was some brouhaha over it about a year ago or so. Something about a decision that was made where store owners were told they couldn't say hi, with store owners not agreeing with it with the possibility of it hurting their business. Oh here it is: https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/don-t...otion-for-french-only-shop-greeting-1.3701305 So yeah, not cool. Well, I guess I shouldn't tell you that there have been talks of Northern Ontario Separatism. Living here, I understand the sentiment, but can't understand how they'd even start to establish that, given that it's hard enough for us to get funding for things. The very idea itself seems to illicit a number of jokes. We even have a new party established with the mantra in mind. I guess in the end, there's always some place that will be unhappy. I hadn't heard about the Western separatists,. but I suppose nothing is too surprising these days. It's just never going to work out too well. Oh, I hadn't heard of that. That's terrible. While I'm French-Canadian, I was never quite subjected to it that way. It was mostly as a family, making an effort to speak French. I could understand it if it meant they were being homeschooled, but I'm assuming that's not the case. Btw, I appreciate the fact that while it's a sensitive subject, being a Canadian thread, we're not calling anyone names or slinging mud. We're essentially doing this the Canadian way
My mom is French-Canadian (though I am not)... and has dual citizenship. I live (and grew up) in the US, but I am seriously considering applying for dual citizenship at some point, mainly just to broaden my options for the future. Anyone have any experience with this?
I am a dual Canadian-American citizen and it has been nothing but a positive thing. I was the opposite: I grew up in Canada, but because of having dual citizenship I was easily able to move to the United States, where I had good career opportunities. I can travel across the border very easily, and could choose where I want to live and work. I can't think of any reason why it would be a negative. As someone with personal experience, I recommend having the dual citizenship.
@Marynator thanks for the info. I just looked on the Canadian immigration site and I may no longer qualify, depending on where my mother was born. She's Canadian, but I am pretty sure she was born in the States, hence her dual affiliation. At the time I was born she was also working in the US, so that might be a loophole in my favor. Looks like the laws were amended a few years ago...
I know that Canada's laws changed about a decade ago, but that only affected people born in 2007 or later. In 2007 they changed the law so that if you were born outside Canada, but your parent was Canadian, you only received Canadian citizenship if they were born in Canada. Previously you could still have Canadian citizenship if your parent was born outside of Canada but was a Canadian citizen. It might be worth looking into further! It depends on when you were born.
My Dad was born in the U.S, then moved to Canada, and for awhile he had the Dual Ctitizenship. He had to give that up though as it would have meant paying more taxes, so he dropped his American citizenship. It's a question he tends to get frequently while crossing the border.
Think it might have been longer than that. Or maybe there's been a number of changes. Under the Australian Constitution you can't sit in the federal parliament if you hold dual citizenship (even if one if gained through birth). One Greens senator (age in the mid 30s iirc) had to resign when she discovered that she had Canadian citizenship. Her parents were Australian but living in Canada at the time she was born. Had she been born two or threes weeks earlier everything would have been fine but a change in the law came into effect that granted her Canadian citizenship despite her parents being non-citizens. It's also becoming more and more expensive to get citizenship in Canada. I think it cost me around $300 - $400 for my application that was in 2015 (should have applied when I first became eligible in 2012) and now it's around the $600 mark so for a family of 4, even with the discount rate for kids, you're out of pocket $1200+ to apply.