Considering the revelation that there is some wibbly wobbly concerning Susan's parentage, is it at all possible River is Susan's grandmother?
Spoilers The Legend of Ruby Sunday grade and discussion thread
- Thread starter The Nth Doctor
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Despite the dodgy special effects and the oddness of the Time Window in general (I can't put my finger on it), I loved how the episode played on all of our expectations. Wrong acronym! And of course she wasn't actually Susan.
I don't think I heard even a whisper of an idea that it would be Sutekh (maybe I don't pay attention enough to the rumors and just as well!) but in retrospect, it seems rather obvious (and when I have a chance, I'm going to have to go back and look at the closed captioning of all the deities that Harriet listed). Not only that but they also brought back the always wonderfully creepy Gabriel Woolf! While he already returned once as The Beast in the Ood two-parter and as Sutekh in Big Finish audios, it's a whole other thing to have him fully return as Sutekh on the show! It's only a shame we don't have Lis Sladen to be part of this great and terrible reunion.
Otherwise, I don't think I can properly judge this episode until we have all of the answers from next week's "Empire of Death." Until the climax, the whole thing felt like a mixed bag. Like I already said, there's something about the Time Window, aside from the dodgy special effects, that felt off about the whole thing. I love the concept of the technology but it didn't feel like it was executed or directed well. I know I'm not explaining my reaction to it well but it still bugged me. I did love the jump scare with Ruby's mom's movement skipping several frames over. That was well done at least.
I don't think I heard even a whisper of an idea that it would be Sutekh (maybe I don't pay attention enough to the rumors and just as well!) but in retrospect, it seems rather obvious (and when I have a chance, I'm going to have to go back and look at the closed captioning of all the deities that Harriet listed). Not only that but they also brought back the always wonderfully creepy Gabriel Woolf! While he already returned once as The Beast in the Ood two-parter and as Sutekh in Big Finish audios, it's a whole other thing to have him fully return as Sutekh on the show! It's only a shame we don't have Lis Sladen to be part of this great and terrible reunion.
Otherwise, I don't think I can properly judge this episode until we have all of the answers from next week's "Empire of Death." Until the climax, the whole thing felt like a mixed bag. Like I already said, there's something about the Time Window, aside from the dodgy special effects, that felt off about the whole thing. I love the concept of the technology but it didn't feel like it was executed or directed well. I know I'm not explaining my reaction to it well but it still bugged me. I did love the jump scare with Ruby's mom's movement skipping several frames over. That was well done at least.
Turns out whoever said that this episode invoked Gaiman was right! You can never be sure with these kind of things but that does bring a smile to my face.
I think that's part of what bothered me about the Time Window: They spent so much time just standing there and staring...without really doing or learning anything. The whole thing (aside from the jump scare and then eventually the sandstorm) felt very dragged out. Which is really unfortunate for such a nifty idea like a Time Window.
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Dump Mel in November 2004 London, and don't pick her up til New years day 2005.
On "Unleashed" Russell basically confirms Susan Twist was cast for the theories her name would provoke . She was someone he already knew and he offered her the part directly.
Sigh. I can’t wait for a show runner that didn’t grow up with classic Who. I’m
glad this excited a lot of people but not one of them myself. Harriet Arbinger, indeed…
glad this excited a lot of people but not one of them myself. Harriet Arbinger, indeed…
You don't require a single piece of pre this series information in order to understand the episide, so why not use the series history?
Okay, I really need to start watching Old Who because when it was revealed that it was Sutekh I was like "who the fuck is that?"
Basically:
1) Sutekh! Finally an OldWho villain who wasn't somehow brought back since 2005! Remarkable.
2) Harriet Binger....no one thought of this strange anagram? Really?
3) The felt a LOT like Utopia, but I still enjoyed it. However, several comments do correctly point out that this does feel like extended prologue. Certainly a lot of this episode could've easily been said in just 20 something minutes.
4) Overall I liked it, but I wish a bit more substance in some stuff. Why is RTD afraid to exposition to us what happened to Susan? I don't get it. Anyway, bring on next week.
5) I know the Time Window was basically the "1970's UNIT reference" that capsule musta mentioned, but I was itching for a Sean Pertwee-as-the-Third Doctor reveal. I even saw a weird dream couple of days ago when I randomly saw Sean Pertwee, in clearly fake white wig, running past me telling me "don't worry about me, I'm just running around Bessie!" On the one hand, its good that not internet rumors were true but on the other hand, its too bad that that didn't happen, for the fun of seeing Thirdie, ya know? Anyway.
1) Sutekh! Finally an OldWho villain who wasn't somehow brought back since 2005! Remarkable.
2) Harriet Binger....no one thought of this strange anagram? Really?
3) The felt a LOT like Utopia, but I still enjoyed it. However, several comments do correctly point out that this does feel like extended prologue. Certainly a lot of this episode could've easily been said in just 20 something minutes.
4) Overall I liked it, but I wish a bit more substance in some stuff. Why is RTD afraid to exposition to us what happened to Susan? I don't get it. Anyway, bring on next week.
5) I know the Time Window was basically the "1970's UNIT reference" that capsule musta mentioned, but I was itching for a Sean Pertwee-as-the-Third Doctor reveal. I even saw a weird dream couple of days ago when I randomly saw Sean Pertwee, in clearly fake white wig, running past me telling me "don't worry about me, I'm just running around Bessie!" On the one hand, its good that not internet rumors were true but on the other hand, its too bad that that didn't happen, for the fun of seeing Thirdie, ya know? Anyway.
He was also in an episode of Stargate. That version was a bit more of a dirtbag.
Harriet didn’t have her surname in the pre-release credits.
It was a lot of prologue in the sense it was ‘here’s what’s been happening’ followed by a lot of stuff to make you think it’s x then it’s not x. (Susan, The Tardis, Rubys Mother…)
Then along comes Sutekh (as the fans have also been predicting for over a month) but this time for reals not just what is now confirmed as the tribute act from The Beast Below (though he is namechecked.)
I don’t think Time Windows are a Pertwee era thing, and Son of Jon was only leaked for the absolute finale, so you may yet get your wish.
I’m not struck on much in this episode, and Ncuti just isn’t working for me as the Doctor. He’s written as too passive, and he really needs to get some antihistamines. Needs more alien to him, and more courage.
That was all very exciting, and tense. I didn't watch classic Doctor Who so I had no idea who Sutekh was, but it was still a very chilling villain.
I did a quick google search regarding Sutekh to try and fill in the blanks and it seems quite fascinating.
I also loved how the Doctor was so angry over the death of the member of UNIT.
Is it next week yet?
I did a quick google search regarding Sutekh to try and fill in the blanks and it seems quite fascinating.
I also loved how the Doctor was so angry over the death of the member of UNIT.
Is it next week yet?
Well that was a rollercoaster and a half.
I swear at this point if the lady under the cloak/hood isn't either Carol Ann Ford or Georgia Tennant, I'll be very disappointed.
This was such a good set up. My one concern is RTD isn't exactly known to land his endings. I know I use to bag Moffat for the same thing, but that is me being an annoyed 'Press Gang' fan (two chances and he failed both!), because at least Moffat had a couple of decent endings for Who seasons.
Great too see Rose again.
Moffat going completely transparent in the first 10 minutes - 'Even I saw that' made me guess that Susan Twist may not of been Grand-daughter Susan, but as they said... there's always a twist in the end - so I'm going to hope it is good!
I swear at this point if the lady under the cloak/hood isn't either Carol Ann Ford or Georgia Tennant, I'll be very disappointed.
This was such a good set up. My one concern is RTD isn't exactly known to land his endings. I know I use to bag Moffat for the same thing, but that is me being an annoyed 'Press Gang' fan (two chances and he failed both!), because at least Moffat had a couple of decent endings for Who seasons.
Great too see Rose again.
Moffat going completely transparent in the first 10 minutes - 'Even I saw that' made me guess that Susan Twist may not of been Grand-daughter Susan, but as they said... there's always a twist in the end - so I'm going to hope it is good!
Or Alex Kingston...
So the Doctor's known all along that Susan's really his granddaughter, but not who his child/Susan's parent was... or, rather, will be...
We're clearly leading up to Ruby, Susan Triad or both being a fobwatched/Chameleon Arched direct relative of the Doctor, either daughter or granddaughter. "A caterpillar doesn't know it's a butterfly, and a phoenix is just a bird until it catches fire..."
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Or Billy Piper as Rose. She and Meta Crisis Doctor had baby Ruby, the Doctor's daughter and future mother of Susan.
And $100 on Red too please.
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Or Alex Kingston...
So the Doctor's known all along that Susan's really his granddaughter, but not who his child/Susan's parent was... or, rather, will be...
We're clearly leading up to Ruby, Susan Triad or both being a fobwatched/Chameleon Arched direct relative of the Doctor, either daughter or granddaughter. "A caterpillar doesn't know it's a butterfly, and a phoenix is just a bird until it catches fire..."
I really hope the ‘don’t know who Susan’s parents are’ falls under ‘the Doctor lies’ because it cheapens quite a lot of nice moments in the shows early years. The Novels suffered the same problem when they may her the granddaughter of The Other.
Fair enough. I'm glad we're getting more Doctor Who!
The show basically says "Fuck Classic Who" 99% of the time since 2005, they generally couldn't disconnect NuWho from Classic Who any more outside of an explicit reboot. You can survive the extremely few times they throw a bone to the people who love the first 40 years of the franchise's history, especially since they always explain it for new fans anyway. Classic Who is Doctor Who, and its extremely underrepresented in the franchise nowadays.
Its like watching Star Trek: The Next Generation and complaining when Spock or Scotty showed up. I can't imagine the pain people with a bizarre Classic Who hatred went through watching Time Crash, Night of The Doctor or Twice Upon a Time and were forced to see Doctors from before Eccleston. Heck, The Eleventh Hour, The Next Doctor and the recent Rogue must have been horrible jump scares, since they showed the faces of Doctors who existed before 2005.
The show existed before RTD brought it back, and the Classic stuff is just as valid as post 2005 stuff and deserves to be acknowledged more.
The 10th Doctor acknowledged having children in a way that he definitely knew and raised them, so either RTD is setting up a specific retcon or The Doctor is lying.
Gave it a 7. Too much padding and exposition. Introducing Ruby's Mom to everyone, revisiting Ruby's birth, a tour around UNIT. What was with the goofy TARDIS entrance into UNIT at the beginning? It can just materialize inside UNIT. It seems pretty obvious that at the very least RTD is pushing for a UNIT spinoff.
The Doctor spent much of the time just observing things.
Something about the new UNIT just seems too goofy.
There were some nice moments as well to be sure. I loved seeing Mel again. Bonnie Langford had gravitas when she needed it, admiring staff member at others, etc.
There were moving moments around Ruby, her Mom, and her birth.
There were tense moments.
But in reality, not a lot happened other than that Sutekh was revealed. I love Pyramid of Mars, but it didn't feel like Sutekh needed to return. Yeah, he was presented as being powerful but really just a one off villain and he wasn't the reason PoM was so good.
I had hopes that Susan would be revealed even if she wasn't Susan Twist. Alas that seems to be just a disappointing misdirection.
The Doctor spent much of the time just observing things.
Something about the new UNIT just seems too goofy.
There were some nice moments as well to be sure. I loved seeing Mel again. Bonnie Langford had gravitas when she needed it, admiring staff member at others, etc.
There were moving moments around Ruby, her Mom, and her birth.
There were tense moments.
But in reality, not a lot happened other than that Sutekh was revealed. I love Pyramid of Mars, but it didn't feel like Sutekh needed to return. Yeah, he was presented as being powerful but really just a one off villain and he wasn't the reason PoM was so good.
I had hopes that Susan would be revealed even if she wasn't Susan Twist. Alas that seems to be just a disappointing misdirection.
Same - highest score I've given this season.