Well apparently Solo had whatever it takes to keep people from seeing it, giving it's box office was significantly lower. It was also the first Star Wars movie that I didn't see in the theatre. And that was from bad word of mouth.
The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?
- Thread starter crookeddy
- Start date
Well apparently Solo had whatever it takes to keep people from seeing it, giving it's box office was significantly lower. It was also the first Star Wars movie that I didn't see in the theatre. And that was from bad word of mouth.
Hypocrisy galore: they screech that people that don't have their opinion "GATEKEEP!" and they throw immediately the "I SAW IT ORIGINALLY NOOB!" line.
The fact of the matter is, you can't argue with basic logic: The rewriting of Luke Skywalker was total nonsense, he went from someone that insisted the most evil person in the galaxy can be redeemed to someone that almost killed a child because he had a vision he might turn evil.
Again, if you truly want "new" stop milking old franchises by ruining the canon and continuity of them. There's no reason to rewrite, make a new saga.
This is incorrect. The most evil person in the galaxy was the guy holding Vader's leash and taunting Luke into using his anger and hatred, and had patronized Anakin into believing he was better than anyone and fed his ego until it got the best of him and cost him his friends, his life as a Jedi Knight, and his family life. And decades later, nearly cost him his son and daughter.
Palpatine is the most evil one in the Throne Room. Luke originally thinks of Vader as the most evil thing before Cloud City, but feels something (something his mother felt before she died). That Anakin Skywalker, the good person that Qui-Gon and Obi-wan encountered a long time ago, was still inside the Vader constructed personality. Luke decided he needed to save his father from the Palpatine. But he still almost killed his father in a moment of anger and fear.
For Ben Solo, Luke noticed the darkness inside Ben and in a moment of weakness, nearly killed his nephew out of fear and anger. From the description, Luke saw the possible future and horror that Kylo Ren would inflict upon the Galaxy and Luke feared what might happen, and in his anger, drew his lightsaber. Than he remembered his training, and what nearly happened with his Father....but this time, it was too late....for Ben woke up and reacted poorly to the situation, and became the very evil Luke had foreseen. (Its like finding out the teenager you've been training will become a dictator that will kill millions of people and cause wars that destroy whole continents, and you have the chance to kill that teenage before they even harm one person....the old quandary: Do you kill Hitler when he was a student before the First World War? When he'd done nothing yet. Based on something that might happen?)
This is not out of character and makes sense with the character of Jedi Master Luke Skywalker. He is not perfect. He can see possible futures that can bring him great pain and he will sometimes act on impulse to these visions. He ran to Cloud City and nearly got himself killed, having to be rescued by the people he was trying to save (who managed to only need his Astromech to complete their escape). He has also been known to give in to his anger and fear from time to time. He's usually pretty good about pulling himself back to his center, but not before he at least starts to act of his anger or fear (see him force pulling his lightsaber from Palpatine's chair and taking a swing at him after being push and pushed to give into his anger repeatedly. After crossing sabers with Vader for a minute or two, Palpatines praises him and he realized what he was just doing, and turns his blade off and telling Vader he doesn't want to fight him. This pattern repeats, with Vader pushing the sister button, and setting Luke off again, Luke realizing he'd nearly killed his father when Palpatine interrupts with praise. Luke then throws his lightsaber away and flat out rejects Palpatine….which pisses of the Lord of the Sith , who decides he's had enough with this Skywalker and starts to fry him with Force Lightning. This of snaps Anakin's long lost personality into the front again, and he finally takes a action he probably should have done instead of cutting Mace's arm off decades ago.
Luke is not perfect. Nor does he ever thing he's perfect. He makes mistakes and he actually fears his mistakes, which actually makes it worse, if he doesn't learn from them first.
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When you write a wall of text to "dispute" something and the main thing you have to say "Palpatine was more evil", just leave it, we get it, you have no argument.
The fact of the matter is that the original story is extremely simple at that. Luke was pressured by multiple people, including Anakin to give up on Anakin. He did not. He ended up being the reason the entire saga had an ending to begin with.
Turning him to an weakling that not only gives up but tries to murder not one of the most dangerous people in galaxy but a child, is utter nonsense and no wall of text will ever change that.
Utter nonsense. Anakin was approximately the most evil and dangerous person in the galaxy. Luke was pressured by multiple people, including Anakin himself, to give up on him but he didn't.
On the rewrite he became a weakling that gave up on a youngling that could in theory become evil because of a vision without anyone pressuring him about it.
So it's comparing unequal entities here. It's like saying it made sense to almost rob a bank because you almost stole a lollipop.
edit: It's even worse when Return of the Jedi proved that redemption was possible, SO HE ALREADY HAD A VERY GOOD MOTIVATION TO SEEK REDEMPTION FOR OTHERS AGAIN, it was already confirmed it can lead to good things.
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Perhaps this is telling us something about Kylo Ren more than its telling us about Luke.
Anakin Skywalker was a good man that was seduced into be evil and remained evil out of a combination of guilt, fear, anger, and that he felt he had nothing left in the entire galaxy except what he'd become. It took Luke (his of family ) to bring Anakin back.
Ben Solo, appear to have volunteered to become evil for reasons we aren't given. There is a chance he is just evil and cannot be redeemed like Anakin could. Would Luke be wrong if Ben Solo was someone who was irredeemably evil and embraced the Dark Side willingly out of some delusion that it was the better course of action, rather than being boxed into a corner by Palpatine like Anakin was? Ben Solo is trying to as hard as he can to be irredeemable, seeing Anakin's turn back to the Light as weakness.
But, we are missing pieces of this story still....the third act is still some months away. How many people could guess Darth Vader's redemption months before Return of the Jedi came out? How many people believed he was telling the truth about being Luke's father? We still have a mountain of questions that hopefully will be answered in Rise of Skywalker.
Anakin Skywalker was a good man that was seduced into be evil and remained evil out of a combination of guilt, fear, anger, and that he felt he had nothing left in the entire galaxy except what he'd become. It took Luke (his of family ) to bring Anakin back.
Ben Solo, appear to have volunteered to become evil for reasons we aren't given. There is a chance he is just evil and cannot be redeemed like Anakin could. Would Luke be wrong if Ben Solo was someone who was irredeemably evil and embraced the Dark Side willingly out of some delusion that it was the better course of action, rather than being boxed into a corner by Palpatine like Anakin was? Ben Solo is trying to as hard as he can to be irredeemable, seeing Anakin's turn back to the Light as weakness.
But, we are missing pieces of this story still....the third act is still some months away. How many people could guess Darth Vader's redemption months before Return of the Jedi came out? How many people believed he was telling the truth about being Luke's father? We still have a mountain of questions that hopefully will be answered in Rise of Skywalker.
The point is that Luke Skywalker was basically "complete" being a character that seeks redemption to people that are evil. Not only he did it for Anakin when everyone, including Anakin, was pressuring him not to do it, but Anakin also SUCCEEDED to redeem himself so Luke already had PROVEN his stance can lead to good things so the motivation to almost murder a youngling for the suspicion it can turn evil was zero.
Following that, Luke Skywalker should either be gone from the saga or continue being consistent.
Disney is best when they soft-reboot (The Force Awakens). It might not be new but it's comfy.
When they rewrite (The Last Jedi), they become annoying because the story is nonsense.
I mean, they could also try new stories entirely, who knows, they might work!
Following that, Luke Skywalker should either be gone from the saga or continue being consistent.
Disney is best when they soft-reboot (The Force Awakens). It might not be new but it's comfy.
When they rewrite (The Last Jedi), they become annoying because the story is nonsense.
I mean, they could also try new stories entirely, who knows, they might work!
The entire problem with your theory is that you assume human beings are perfectly rational actors capable of making the best possible decision at all times and never give in to impulse.
As I had said originally, in this case it would make sense only after a severe and clinical psychological condition and the story did not imply anything like that. Luke up to that point was a character that not only insisted people can be redeemed but it was already proven it can be done, and in fact for even more dangerous people than that youngling, so there was zero motivation to change his stance even for a second.
It's pretty clear whoever rewrote the character had no clue or forgot the entire point of the original saga in terms of redemption. No only that's how the story ended, Luke was the main catalyst for that to happen.
Yes, I'm sure Abrams may rewrite Rian to make more sense but I seriously doubt Rian would go that way himself because after the confirmation of The Return of the Jedi about what Luke's stance can achieve, Luke would never go another route again normally.
It's pretty silly though. I mean, there's no need to ruin stories by rewriting them to be nonsensical. People aren't really that attached to Mark Hamill as some people think, they mainly love characters, not actors. If they really wanted a new story with a character like that, they could write a new story entirely.
PS. Luke could have some serious brain damage or psychiatric alteration, but that wouldn't technically be Luke anyway.
Even when Luke was set on redeeming his father, he still gave into his fear and anger and nearly killed his father. He even cut off Vader's hand and was a moment from a killing blow when Palpatine interrupted his near rampage at the father he was trying to redeem.
Ben Solo had a darkness in him that Luke sensed, and appears to have noticed it for a while. This seems to partly be why Han and Leia sent their son to Luke for training, he had too much of Vader in him (not Anakin....Vader). One night while Luke was doing a check on Ben, he sensed the evils Kylo Ren might cause. It horrified him and he reacted out of anger and fear, nearly striking his nephew down....much like he nearly struck down his own father when he gave into his anger and fear. Luke caught himself much faster than he did on the Second Death Star. He didn't cut off any of Ben's body parts, nor did he cross blades with him until Ben brought out his own lightsaber. Ben overreacted and not only brought the roof down on Luke, but than seemingly slaughtered the entire Jedi Academy and burned the place to the ground. With the help of the Knights of Ren if Rey's vision is correct. If this is the case, than Ben had already fallen to the Dark Side, and joined Snoke, and already had a posse of his own Knights at this point, and had hidden this from Luke for a while.
Ben Solo had a darkness in him that Luke sensed, and appears to have noticed it for a while. This seems to partly be why Han and Leia sent their son to Luke for training, he had too much of Vader in him (not Anakin....Vader). One night while Luke was doing a check on Ben, he sensed the evils Kylo Ren might cause. It horrified him and he reacted out of anger and fear, nearly striking his nephew down....much like he nearly struck down his own father when he gave into his anger and fear. Luke caught himself much faster than he did on the Second Death Star. He didn't cut off any of Ben's body parts, nor did he cross blades with him until Ben brought out his own lightsaber. Ben overreacted and not only brought the roof down on Luke, but than seemingly slaughtered the entire Jedi Academy and burned the place to the ground. With the help of the Knights of Ren if Rey's vision is correct. If this is the case, than Ben had already fallen to the Dark Side, and joined Snoke, and already had a posse of his own Knights at this point, and had hidden this from Luke for a while.
Or the kind of momentary lapse of judgement that human beings are perfectly capable of, especially a character who’s been established across three movies as being given to rash and impulsive decisions.
I have no issue with people not liking a movie, just offering perspective of someone, while admittedly young, did see the original in the theater.
I'll say it again since it apparently went over people's heads before: the person responsible for "rewriting" Luke's character is George Lucas.
