The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

[Trekkin]

For someone who has supposably ‘seen the light’ about his attitude and his behaviour, the entire ‘prologue’ to that post consists of him blaming other people for it.

‘But...but...Kathleen Kennedy shouldnt have been wearing t-shirts, and instead should have been tweeting positively about me! Why didn’t they stop me abusing them?!’

(He’s also just plain fucking wrong. Johnson’s Twitter in particular has pretty much kept up a constant refrain of ‘its fine to dislike the movie, how you act is what’s important.’ Solely because of self-pitying, self-fellating dudes like this.

Also, dude doesn’t seem to understand how human conversation works. Primarily on twitter, but also in general.)

It also doesn’t incite me to read any further. Ya haven’t reached the level of self-reflection to make that novel worth the time, bud. Nominally being on my ‘side’ doesn’t cut it.

 

[HugeLobes]

So it is real? Good lord...

"This post covers a lot. It is about me and my extreme hatred for The Last Jedi, and how I’ve overcame it. After despising it for 13 months and documenting that hate on Twitter, I’ve found peace."

My immediate reaction is:

"He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother."

Imagining some dude whipping himself across the back while chanting: "YOU WILL LIKE STAR WARS AGAIN! YOU WILL LIKE STAR WARS AGAIN!"

 

[Skipper]

A bit on the topic of the OP, this blogpost discusses one person who hated Last Jedi and their personal journey regarding that hate. I don't expect it to change anyone's mind, but it was so interesting to see this perspective.

https://theenniepost.wordpress.com/

I'm sorry, are we still talking about a movie right? Do this person know that it would be better for him/her to seek professional help?

 

[Trekkin]

So it is real? Good lord...

"This post covers a lot. It is about me and my extreme hatred for The Last Jedi, and how I’ve overcame it. After despising it for 13 months and documenting that hate on Twitter, I’ve found peace."

My immediate reaction is:

"He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother."

Imagining some dude whipping himself across the back while chanting: "YOU WILL LIKE STAR WARS AGAIN! YOU WILL LIKE STAR WARS AGAIN!"

It’s kinda like spending a year posting hate letters to Trek producers because of, I don’t know...ship scaling issues.

Until one day you finally ‘cure’ yourself of the habit. You’ve head-canoned your way to a Watsonian explanation, and you’re not sending those people letters anymore. So you’re all good, right?

Except you’re still a slightly-dangerous prick, my dude. The core issue of ‘needing to grow up, and get a fucking grip’ remains alive, and just waiting to lash out a new target.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, that's a whole lotta words. I just read the first couple. Is it a joke? This seems like something written to satirize Star Wars fans.

It's not a joke. It's a rather personal journey of going from hatred to recognizing what Luke's journey in the OT was about. I clipped what I felt was relevant, but the author definitely goes in to long winded detail that I can appreciate is not for everyone.

I went back and watched the scenes in the Emperor’s throne room between Luke and Darth Vader in Return of the Jedi, but this time I tried to take my shades off and analyse it.

I watched Luke closely. I watched his face, his reactions, the emotions he was showing, the decisions he was making in each moment, I listened to the dialogue. I wanted to understand why Rian Johnson would say Luke in The Last Jedi is 100% consistent with the OT Luke, and why other people would say this too.

Luke does not want to fight Vader. Hmmm.

He refused to fight. That’s consistent, I guess?

But he is pushed to breaking point. His emotions get the better of him (when Vader mentions Leia) and he is clearly angry. He is full of rage, and he can’t control it. He attacks Darth Vader. This is not a Jedi.

He bests Vader, and at the climax of angrily chopping him down with his lightsaber, he does a manoeuvre practically mirroring what Vader did to him in the Empire Strikes Back, and he cuts off his hand.

I’d never really thought about the significance of that move, and what it meant when he looked at Vaders severed arm, and then at his own hand.

I always thought it was a moment of recognition of the connection between himself and Vader, and destiny, and maybe it meant he realised he was no better than Vader at this point.

Now that may all be true, but now on thinking on it, I realised maybe this was Luke realising that in his moment of anger and hate, he had just performed an act of revenge.

An eye for an eye, or in this case, a hand for a hand.

The Jedi way is to avoid aggression, avoid hate, and only fight as a form of defence; and here was Luke wielding his weapon with rage and taking revenge.

Definitely not what a Jedi would do.

It dawned on me that the original title of the movie was Revenge of the Jedi, but of course they knew they needed to change it because of that very reason – revenge is not the Jedi way.

Now watching the way Luke reacts when the Emperor congratulates him for his display of anger, and the way Luke looks at Vader’s severed arm and then at his own hand, and then his face shows a moment of clarity and realisation, that he had lost control and taken it too far and this act of revenge was not the way of a Jedi. Could this mean he realised the use of his lightsaber was not the answer?

It is the turning point. He turns off his lightsaber, and throws it.

In acknowledging his mistake, he has been redeemed. He has rejected the fight, and in doing so he has won, and can now proclaim he is a Jedi.

A real Jedi.

A Jedi does not fight and does not want to fight.

Ok so that is consistent with Luke in The Last Jedi.

I’m starting to understand.

Yes, it is long. The author takes his time to unpack a lot of emotion. I have a lot of respect for his willingness to do so.

I'm sorry, are we still talking about a movie right? Do this person know that it would be better for him/her to seek professional help?

You do realize that many therapists view writing out feelings as very therapeutic? Myself included.

 

[HugeLobes]

Honestly seems more like someone fixating on something until they like it. This reads like Stockholm syndrome.

 

[Skipper]

You do realize that many therapists view writing out feelings as very therapeutic? Myself included.

Yes, if you are already under therapy. A lot of Gamergators and MRAers write out their feeling about women but I doubt they are improving...

 

[Campe]

I get the reason he wrote it. It is long. And there are a few moments where I was wondering if he really had found peace in all of this. But if it helps him in his own way in a cathartic way, that’s great. BUT, it’s the same realization I came to within five minutes of leaving the theater. And I know it’s what I and others have said in defense of TLJ time and time again. I mean, I guess people have to come about these realizations in their own way. Oh well.

 

[fireproof78]

Yes, if you are already under therapy. A lot of Gamergators and MRAers write out their feeling about women but I doubt they are improving...

Reading the way he processed through it I have respect for him acknowledging his feelings, his struggles, and where he erred. I don't think the comparison is apt in this case.

I get the reason he wrote it. It is long. And there are a few moments where I was wondering if he really had found peace in all of this. But if it helps him in his own way in a cathartic way, that’s great. BUT, it’s the same realization I came to within five minutes of leaving the theater. And I know it’s what I and others have said in defense of TLJ time and time again. I mean, I guess people have to come about these realizations in their own way. Oh well.

I find it more informative from the POV of someone who had that realization in the theater. I personally struggle with the difficulty people have with the film so seeing this stepwise progress helped inform me more, and gave greater insight to how others may feel. It goes beyond just the rantings on YT and in to something more personal.

 

[HugeLobes]

I wasn’t asking if it was a joke to be mean. I genuinely thought this was satire.

Honestly, this whole thing strikes me as a little ridiculous. If you need 13 months to work through your hatred of a movie, it might be the movie just wasn’t very good.

"I haven’t really gone in to my other gripes about the movie (and believe me, there are many) because I always said if I could accept Luke Skywalker’s portrayal, I could probably get past everything else I didn’t like about the movie. I have managed to do that."

It's okay. If I convince myself I liked Luke Skywalker, everything else will be fine. EVERYTHING. ELSE. WILL. BE. FINE.

Again, there’s an edge of blaming the fans here. This guy has swapped his hatred of the prequels for shades of that smugness you tend to get with converts.

"In no way is this post a manual for people who hate The Last Jedi to be like me and come out of the other side and find peace, but I do hope it helps you and gives you hope that it’s possible for someone like me to accept Luke’s character, and be free of the hate."

Oh, it's okay. It's fine for you to continue living in sin instead of going through the arduous journey of self-discovery I did. Enjoy hell.

As for the sections you clipped.

It is the turning point. He turns off his lightsaber, and throws it.

In acknowledging his mistake, he has been redeemed. He has rejected the fight, and in doing so he has won, and can now proclaim he is a Jedi.

A real Jedi.

A Jedi does not fight and does not want to fight.

Ok so that is consistent with Luke in The Last Jedi.

I'm kinda stunned someone wouldn't pick that up during their first viewing.

Yes, it's consistent with Luke in TLJ, but this reminds me of that 'ring theory' people started using to praise the prequels. The idea is basically that Lucas mirrored shots and broader story ideas between trilogies, and that this somehow makes them masterpieces. What this theory doesn't take into account is the horrible dialogue, lazy direction, gratuitous fight scenes, or weak characterisation. That's why I don't like the prequels.

Same with TLJ. Are some of Luke's actions consistent with the OT? Sure. But I personally thought they were poorly written and oddly played for laughs a lot of the time. Same with a lot of other people. Yes, people are annoyed it didn't meet expectations, but that's not all they're annoyed about.

Maybe I just need to spend 13 months stewing to reach Star Wars salvation...

 

[crookeddy]

It's a movie. It's ok not to like it.

The end.

Alternately, freak out and go on a journey of self discovery and then write a condescending book sized post about it. I guess that's ok too. However, no other sane person should have to read it.

 

[Campe]

To be fair, maybe there just needs to come a point where people move on. It has been 13 months. I’m not saying you and I’m not suggesting that I don’t get some of the criticisms of TLJ. I absolutely do. I’m just saying SOME have taken the hate too far. Just as SOME have taken their defense of the film too far. We will be discussing the film until the end of time. That’s what fans do. But both sides need to chill and try to have a more civil discussion in general. This conversation has actually been fairly relaxed and I appreciate that. I quit Twitter for two reasons: first, because of a certain leader of my country who won’t shut up and second, because the toxicity of a lot of fandoms was just too much. Whether it’s Star Wars and TLJ or Star Trek and Disco or Axanar or Ghostbusters. Whatever. It just gets to be too much. That’s one of the reasons I’ve always been more interested in TrekBBS. We may disagree, but for the most part it’s civil.

 

[fireproof78]

Alternately, freak out and go on a journey of self discovery and then write a condescending book sized post about it. I guess that's ok too. However, no other sane person should have to read it.

Gee thanks.

 

[mos6507]

...you’re still a slightly-dangerous prick

This sort of language is why the dumpster fires keep burning bright with no end in sight. Lots of pots calling kettles black here.

 

[fireproof78]

But both sides need to chill and try to have a more civil discussion in general. This conversation has actually been fairly relaxed and I appreciate that. I quit Twitter for two reasons: first, because of a certain leader of my country who won’t shut up and second, because the toxicity of a lot of fandoms was just too much.

I agree. I have never been on Twitter and review to indulge in that level of pain and suffering.

That said, I appreciate the author and his willingness to detail what he did, and his journey. For my part, I think it was helpful to shed light on those who didn't enjoy the film, and actively hated it. I saw the same with the PT, and working through a lot of emotions that went through the film. As much as I want to say "It's just a movie" I also recognize that people deal with things in different ways and their experience is much different than mine.

 

[Skipper]

Honestly, this whole thing strikes me as a little ridiculous. If you need 13 months to work through your hatred of a movie, it might be the movie just wasn’t very good..

Or you can ask yourself why you are feeling hatred FOR A MOVIE WITH SPACE WIZARDS. Like I said, I can justify hate (not simple dislike, HATE) for a movie only if you are a black person living in the 1915 and you have just watched The Birth Of A Nation.

 

[fireproof78]

Or you can ask yourself why you are feeling hatred FOR A MOVIE WITH SPACE WIZARDS. Like I said, I can justify hate (not simple dislike, HATE) for a movie only if you are a black person living in the 1915 and you have just watched The Birth Of A Nation.

We can still be sympathetic to others, right?

 

[HugeLobes]

Or you can ask yourself why you are feeling hatred FOR A MOVIE WITH SPACE WIZARDS. Like I said, I can justify hate (not simple dislike, HATE) for a movie only if you are a black person living in the 1915 and you have just watched The Birth Of A Nation.

I guess it depends what you mean by ‘hate’. It just means intense dislike, and I don’t think that’s an invalid way to think about a movie. I was speaking to someone the other day who said he hates Marvel movies. He doesn’t foam at the mouth or take to YouTube for a loud airing of grievances, he just really doesn’t like them.

 

[Campe]

I agree. I have never been on Twitter and review to indulge in that level of pain and suffering.

That said, I appreciate the author and his willingness to detail what he did, and his journey. For my part, I think it was helpful to shed light on those who didn't enjoy the film, and actively hated it. I saw the same with the PT, and working through a lot of emotions that went through the film. As much as I want to say "It's just a movie" I also recognize that people deal with things in different ways and their experience is much different than mine.

I do say “it’s just a movie.” But at the same time, I do realize that it is an emotional commitment. Star Wars HAS been a part of almost my entire life and there are times it’s been bigger and smaller parts therein. So I get it. It’s just that I’ve realized for me there are more important things. But you ultimately do what’s right for you.

 

[HugeLobes]

Not to really excuse the hate, but it is part of the deal when you make a Star Wars movie.

You want to cash in on a franchise with unholy name recognition and a massive preestablished fan base? Okay, but you can’t have that without the potential for fan backlash.