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The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
my point is that if everyone goes out to see a movie the first weekend and it makes over 120 million, having it drop more than the 55% you'd want isn't necessarily bad or unexpected
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Sigh. Not “everyone.” You’re generalizing. The rest is fairly accurate.

But if “everyone” went to see it, that would mean that a percentage of “everyone” would go back again. It would indicate that 57.7% of audiences would go see it a second time. Which also isn’t likely. I almost didn’t get to see TLJ opening weekend. We lucked out and managed to get into a screening. Others I know didn’t get to see it until a few weeks down the line. Part of that is time. Part of that is availability.

But I also went a second time second weekend. The screening was still at least 2/3rds full.

fireproof78 said:
Please skip to the part where TLJ is an unmitigated disaster.;)
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Right, right, right. Worst movie ever! Kathleen Kennedy sucks! Fuck Rian Johnson! I hate Rose!

Am I leaving anything out? :p

(I’m, of course, kidding.)
 
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I am unsure of why this argument goes on, there is and will never be a definitive answer.
  • If Rise of Skywalker makes less than Last Jedi, "See? This is because everyone hated The Last Jedi, so they didn't go see Rise of Skywalker."
  • If Rise of Skywalker makes MORE than The Last Jedi, "See? This is because everyone hated The Last Jedi, so they didn't go see The Last Jedi."
  • If Rise of Skywalker makes the exact same amount as The Last Jedi down to the penny, "See? This is because everyone hated the Last Jedi, so Rise of Skywalker won't make as much as The Force Awakens."
There is no winning here. "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."
 
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Adhering to a strict interpretation of the thread topic: Why does anyone care whether or not TLJ was widely-hated? If you liked or didn't like it, shouldn't that be good enough? If you're asking strictly as a matter of academic interest, then there's several metrics that are available, but none of them will necessarily address the question as asked. We can talk about how much money the movie made, but that won't indicate whether people liked it.

People go to movies they end up disliking, and never see films they might have greatly enjoyed. And then there's the fact that I own hundreds of movies and yet can still find myself in a mood where I want to watch a movie but don't want to watch any of the movies I own.
 
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Campe98 said:
2nd week drop was 43.3% and remained at #1. (In comparison, Avengers: Endgame drop was 60.6% and that certainly wasn’t a flop.) And yes, one would think that if 3/4 of the first week’s audience hated it, that it would have seen something more in the realm of a 70% drop. Which WOULD have shown that people really just didn’t want to see it.
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Yeah, looking at that, it doesn't seem to be widely hated... 43% is a very good hold.

Again, I’m not for one second suggesting that TLJ isn’t divisive. I just don’t think it’s a sign divisive as some believe.
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It is clearly divisive on the internet. But, I don't know how someone can say The Last Jedi is "actually widely hated." It's opinion masquerading as fact.

EnderAKH said:
I am unsure of why this argument goes on, there is and will never be a definitive answer.
  • If Rise of Skywalker makes less than Last Jedi, "See? This is because everyone hated The Last Jedi, so they didn't go see Rise of Skywalker."
  • If Rise of Skywalker makes MORE than The Last Jedi, "See? This is because everyone hated The Last Jedi, so they didn't go see The Last Jedi."
  • If Rise of Skywalker makes the exact same amount as The Last Jedi down to the penny, "See? This is because everyone hated the Last Jedi, so Rise of Skywalker won't make as much as The Force Awakens."
There is no winning here. "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play."
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Which is why I don't understand those that hated the Last Jedi continue to start these sorts of threads with wildly unprovable titles like "actually widely hated."

I get it. You don't like the movie. Stop seeing them. You'll save time and money.
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
oh that sounds so good until you realize they are not creators. They are people at a board meeting pilfering creations they did not work on for their own benefit and tossing in agendas and a bunch of demographic marketing research for their own gain
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Pretty sure the guys writing, doing sets, costumes and props and other stuff are creators in the sense they are creating things The guys in boardrooms aren't doing that.
Artists have agendas. This is not new. Gene Roddenberry had an agenda. He also wanted to make money. Desilu wanted to make money. NBC wanted to make money. The advertisers wanted to make money. So again,this is nothing new.
 
fireproof78 said:
My kids love Rey and Jyn. They largely engage through books and animated shorts.
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I like Rey and Jyn. Haven’t been able to sell youngling on Jyn, I think he’s fifty-fifty on Rey. He wanted to make sure there was a Leia figure, and he has multiple Rey and one Jyn. Neither of them feature in his stories much. My old Padme figure sees more action. He’s just...not taken to the new ones, even though he’s seen most of TFA. Part of the problem is he knows about age ratings, so even if I say it’s ok, hold his hand, skip the scary bits, he’s not comfortable with them.
Rebels was so sad though...that was *his* Star Wars, and he loved it. Then they tortured kanaan, and blinded him etc and little one just wasn’t interested. I would give him updates for a while when he stopped watching, but he just wasn’t interested anymore. Modern Star Wars is just...a fairy story. He’s learnt what happens, but he’s not interested in it, or going back to it. Just OT and a hint of PT. *shrug*
 
Awesome Possum said:
What did you want? 30 years of sunshine and happiness? For a plot to happen, things have to happen and set them in motion. It gave Kylo actual reasons to turn on the Jedi and his family other than he just decided to be evil because he was supposed to be like Anakin did. Luke’s failure works unlike Obi-Wan’s because we’re just told it happened and Anakin is basically good until he hears a vague story about how Sith might be able to stop death, then he slaughters children.
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I think there is a lot more to Anakin than that, to be fair.
 
Spot261 said:
Would you believe the Mona Lisa was a paid commission?

Fucking sell out.
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Hehehe... Seriously, it does really amaze me that so many of the fanboyish conspiracy theory crap going on this days is based upon destroying something that has been successful. TLJ made $1.3 billion globally and yet it is a "failure." The Kelvin and CBSAA Trek(s) have made millions and brought in countless subscribers to their service, but its a "failure" because its not Prime and are always about to be "canceled." The individuals who have led these franchises are always about to be "fired."

Look, people can hate these things all you want. I seriously don't give a fuck. But use your brain for just a second and realize that these are still successful franchises. YES, Solo was expected to lose $50 million at Disney, but they've made billions on the other films, and despite what many think, The Rise of Skywalker (while certainly not making The Last Jedi or even Rogue One money) will still be successful for the studio. YES, the Star Trek films are at a standstill at the moment. But that doesn't mean their franchises weren't successful. Picard is highly anticipated and if QT ends up doing Star Trek, it will likely be one of the most successful entries of the series.
 
Campe98 said:
Hehehe... Seriously, it does really amaze me that so many of the fanboyish conspiracy theory crap going on this days is based upon destroying something that has been successful. TLJ made $1.3 billion globally and yet it is a "failure." The Kelvin and CBSAA Trek(s) have made millions and brought in countless subscribers to their service, but its a "failure" because its not Prime and are always about to be "canceled." The individuals who have led these franchises are always about to be "fired."

Look, people can hate these things all you want. I seriously don't give a fuck. But use your brain for just a second and realize that these are still successful franchises. YES, Solo was expected to lose $50 million at Disney, but they've made billions on the other films, and despite what many think, The Rise of Skywalker (while certainly not making The Last Jedi or even Rogue One money) will still be successful for the studio. YES, the Star Trek films are at a standstill at the moment. But that doesn't mean their franchises weren't successful. Picard is highly anticipated and if QT ends up doing Star Trek, it will likely be one of the most successful entries of the series.
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Remind me, wasn't TOS a total unmitigated failure?

(sorry, I'm in a cheeky mood)
 
You see there's the contradiction, that people are complaining about films being made on the basis of financial gain by corporate boards yet measuring their worth by their perceived success or failure as profit making enterprises.

Its a question of wanting things both ways, or perhaps wanting to pick the criteria as suits. Hollywood has never been about high art and for every high risk concept venture there are hundreds of low risk hedge bets. If people want the former they shouldn't be surprised when the box office is underwhelming, if they want the latter then expect the bordrooms and the formulaic approach.
 
Spot261 said:
You see there's the contradiction, that people are complaining about films being made on the basis of financial gain by corporate boards yet measuring their worth by their perceived success or failure as profit making enterprises.

Its a question of wanting things both ways, or perhaps wanting to pick the criteria as suits. Hollywood has never been about high art and for every high risk concept venture there are hundreds of low risk hedge bets. If people want the former they shouldn't be surprised when the box office is underwhelming, if they want the latter then expect the bordrooms and the formulaic approach.
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Preach.
 
crookeddy said:
Except to some TLJ was also not different enough :)
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The review in The Atlantic said that TLJ "trades a little too much on nostalgia," and that it "rel[ies] on familiar tropes a bit more than it should." The reviewer wanted the movie to take more chances than it actually did. Nevertheless, he felt that TLJ is "arguably the best the franchise has offered since Empire." (source)

I found it interesting that professional film critics, who are able to maintain a greater level of professional detachment and objectivity and analyze TLJ as a cinematic work on its own merits, had views such as this.

Kor
 
Spot261 said:
You see there's the contradiction, that people are complaining about films being made on the basis of financial gain by corporate boards yet measuring their worth by their perceived success or failure as profit making enterprises.

Its a question of wanting things both ways, or perhaps wanting to pick the criteria as suits. Hollywood has never been about high art and for every high risk concept venture there are hundreds of low risk hedge bets. If people want the former they shouldn't be surprised when the box office is underwhelming, if they want the latter then expect the bordrooms and the formulaic approach.
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The problem is, more often then not, when they do try something new, it's a total flop, and so they put out the next franchise movie and it make s$1billion. If you have to choose between an almost guaranteed $1billion or a movie with a 50/50, or possibly even 75/25 chance of failure, your going to go with the fucking billion every time.
 
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