exactly my point. The writers of ESB had character stuff, and drama.. but my point is that the Disney people couldn't think of anything else but to blow something up
The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?
- Thread starter crookeddy
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why don't you actually read what I am saying before dissing it
Disagreeing is not "dissing."
Never mind my whole belief that both TLJ and TFA have "character stuff and drama" as though the only thing about TFA was blowing up Starkiller.
Respectfully, I will continue to disagree.
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If I was less tired I’d list off the top of my head the number of character and dramatic moments in both films but after 4 hours of sleep last night and a 15 hour day today, I’ll just say I agree with you.
Now, sleep.
Neither did the sequel trilogy's TESB.
I'm sure many would argue that blowing up the Dreadnought counts
I don't see it either, but I figured it would come up.
Yeah, the destruction of the dreadnought was portrayed as a bad move that ultimately left the Resistance worse off, and the destruction of the Supremacy was to facilitate the Resistance getting away. It wasn't an end in itself like the Death Stars and Starkiller Base were.
I should amend that I meant the Supremacy not the Dreadnought but you made a good point anyway.
Well, every person I know saw it loved it and I loved it so now where does that leave us?
Then Solo would not have done as poorly as it did. Here's the thing, the Star Wars name will only get a film so far and then the film has to be regarded positively to continue. And, as demonstrated in this thread, TLJ was one of the top-grossing films of that year, and had a pretty decent audience retention rate. @Campe98 did a good job of demonstrating this fact, as well as the overall ticket sales.
Now, individuals are more than welcome to hate the film all they want. I want begin to pretend that it isn't divisive. But, it is not as divisive as past Star Wars products (the level of hate against the PT blew my mind. It got absurd.) and still has one more film to go to wrap up the story.
Though I doubt Episode IX will change people who already hate it or their opinions.
Everyone I know who saw it liked it, except for one guy who was so steeped in the old EU that he would hav hated it regardless.
Blowing up the Death Star is the climax of the film. In TLJ, the climax is Luke confronting Kylo.
Well, I liked it and the people I know also liked it. Pretty sure, though that neither of us know a large enough group of folks to encompass a meaningful sample of the Star Wars audience, making it pretty much irrelevant in either case.
Luke is a hero character.. almost an archetype. Like every other character that actually was simple, but good because of it (including Rocky) I don't see the need that seems to exist today to deconstruct such characters.. often it's not entertaining and only diminishes the same figures people look to for hope
That's going to vary from person to person.
Except Luke grows through different archetypes and heroes often do in mythology. Luke appears to go through the everyman to chosen one to aging hero.
And I don't have to like what Luke goes through in the ST to identify with what he is going through. My liking of the story doesn't change how I interact with the story. There are lots of stories I don't like that I can still identify with in some way and that is more meaningful to me.
That’s kind of the same archetype, not different ones — for example, it’s almost identical to King Arthur. Which is where they sort of went to for TLJ, but accidentally landed on Lancelot. But with a heavy dose of Arthur. But Arthur is not for younglings, for a start L’Morte D’Arthure is an hefty tome. It’s also similar to Robin Hood. The point isn’t that Luke died, or even that he failed...the problem is we skipped Camelot or the Return of Richard, and went straight to noble death. A mixed noble death at that, with very little to bridge the failed-Hero to redeemed. Vader actually got more of that than Luke did, because George knew this stuff better. You can argue he skipped the beginning and middle of Anakin/Vader’s hero arc when he made the OT, but that is because he hadn’t made the PT yet. It works because Vader is a slightly different archetype (more Lancelot than Arthur) and because we started right there, in media res as it were.
In Luke’s case, we have seen the beginning bit...but jumped to an accelerated end point, having already been told the story is over. It’s a bit like reading T.H White and then Alfred Lord Tennyson, and pretending they are one work...they aren’t. They are (very sort of) the same story, in terms of characters/events, but are also completely different in almost every conceivable way.
Your identification etc, is of course, totally your own, how we interact with a story is totally unique to each of us. But archetypes are a kind of set thing.