• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

The lack of realism in star trek is seriously insulting

Regarding realism... I mentioned in another thread: episodes like DS9: Homefront or TNG: Unification, and films like Nemesis would have greatly profited from more realism regarding the machinery that would be involved in events like these. But (probably for budget reasons) everything is reduced down to the size of a stage play. That creates a very abstract feeling.

In DS9: Homefront, one single person is in charge of the entire security system of Earth, for example. And all you see him doing is sitting at his desk looking at a screen, he has no group of people he delegates, nothing. You never see the reactions of people or the media to large scale events.
In Nemesis, the entire Romulan Senate is assassinated, but it's no big deal. Not even a HINT is given how the Romulan people reacted to this. It's just all about Picard and Shinzon, sitting in confined spaces. And in Unification, Sela seems to decide alone for herself that Vulcan needs to be invaded. And a force of 2000 troops would be enough to invade the ENTIRE PLANET.

It makes these episodes and films feel so weird.

I think for a realistic feeling, one would have to write the story for the 21st century, and recognize what would happen around the world in politics, economy, society and media during such an event, and then port it to the 24th century.

These are all good examples. And I agree that budgetary considerations also play a part.

But I would have to add that the belief that drama is about character, meaning the regular cast characters. This school of thought contains both producers and viewers. As near as I can tell, most of the hostility to stand-alone episodes comes from disinterest in any characters other than the ones the viewer has invested in (basically, "strangers.")

And yet another factor I think is a sociopolitical rejection of the role of people en masse. These producers may not be so blatantly ideological as to use terms like rabble or mob. But there is a powerful tendency to view people in general wholly negatively, prone to riot or panic or deluded by demagogues or all simultaneously. Salvation for the plot is to come only from the Hero, the true Leader. The unvirtuous leaders' are pretty much all-powerful (like Section 31,) while the virtuous leaders oppose the abuses of power. But never, never are the people an independent factor, much less the saviors. This tendency is barely present in Star Trek but it is fairly prominent in later Treks and stuff like the new BattleStar Galactica.

PS No one knows what the future is right, which means right there that most SF can't be genuinely realistic. It's pseudorealistic. What's the value in that? The only thing that easily comes to mind is that speculation about the future can provoke thought about where we are going. But if all the fictional science is just dismissed as "technobabble," it's not going to be relevant to that. There really is for most TV and movie SF a genuine question as to what point there is to the SF trappings other than badly conceived coolness. Everyone who really takes "technobabble" to encapsulate some sort of criterion of good writing is actually arguing for bad writing. Being so horribly confused in public should be kind of embarrassing.
 
I see your point... but its all just a bit over the top. A little too much in all seriousness.
Um, do you watch a lot of movies or TV shows? Because the hero(es) do that sort of thing all the time. James Bond. Indiana Jones. Han and Luke. Batman. Doctor Who.
Not necessarily on Doctor Who - at least not the Classic Series. Can you name all the Companions who died? They didn't die peacefully of old age, either. They died violently.

First Doctor: Sara Kingdom, Bret Vyon, Katarina (I include Bret Vyon as a courtesy, since he was played by Nicholas Courtney, who went on to play Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart)

Fourth Doctor: Romana I (there has been some controversy as to just why the character regenerated - of course IRL it was because a different actress played the character; however, it can be speculated that Romana's regeneration from Mary Tamm to Lalla Ward happened because Mary Tamm's Romana was physically tortured in the final episode she appeared in, "The Armageddon Factor")

Fifth Doctor: Adric, Kamelion

Sixth Doctor: Peri (although we learn later that the Time Lords were able to save her, she still died a horrific death)

And given what we've been told about the Time War between Gallifrey and the Daleks, we can also assume that the Fourth Doctor's Companion, Leela, died in this war - since she stayed on Gallifrey in the episode "The Invasion of Time".

That's a lot of Doctor Who Companions who didn't make it out alive at the end of their characters' runs...
I was responding to the idea of one or two heroes invading a villain's lair that's brimming with bad guys and coming out on top. The Doctor does that quite often. In hindsight I should have said the Doctor. I said "Doctor Who" in an attempt to be clear about which Doctor I was talking about.
 
Many more things about realism that I just saw discussed in other topics:

- an emergency holographic doctor that is eccentric and can not only fall in love BUT love has negative effects on his mechanical and cognitive abilities. And he ignores direct orders (First Contact: Borg come through the door, Crusher orders him to deflect them and he starts argueing with her). Holy cow. What idiot allowed that program to be installed on starships?

- all purpose clothing: away teams just wear the colored uniforms they wear on the ship. Security personel is not armored. Combat personel is not armored. If an away team beams down to a combat situation, they still only wear their colored uniforms. Engineering personel doesn't wear any special clothing (yet in the TOS movies they did). And on and on.

- the ship computer accidentally creates an artificial intelligence (Prof. Moriarty) that is more intelligent than the ship computer itself or Data. Just because LaForge said "Computer, create a character that is a match for Data."
Not only is it ridiculous, I think it's even absolutely impossible: the Halting Problem, proven in 1936.


- characters like Worf could have had some decent (more realistic) fight choreography. They always talk about what a great warrior he is, and he always does that Tai Chi stuff, but eventually his fights are so badly choreographed it's not even funny anymore. It got better in DS9 though. But worse in the movies, even though they would have had more budget to get a decent fight trainer and choreographer.
 
the ship computer accidentally creates an artificial intelligence (Prof. Moriarty) that is more intelligent than the ship computer itself or Data.
Where is the mind of Moriarty anyway? Does it rest inside the colorful textured forcefield that is Doctor Moriarty body? No, at least as I understand the process the holocharacter's "mind" is the computer aboard the ship, what's standing in the holodeck is projection of the machines in the walls and ceiling.

:)
 
Stj, what an interesting perspective about "the people." I haven't seen the last new Batman, but it sounds as if your comments might apply. Of course, there's a subtext in all superhero movies that theeople can't do it on their own and need saving by some sort of superman. Our current, childish conception of the presidency (be-all super-fixer) sure fits in with that.

I'm on record here, because of my belief in the pace of tech change and already-beginning human-computer interfacing, that going out in space-navy ships is patently unrealistic. But you begin a series with some suspension of disbelief. Still there are elements of Trek storytelling that violate general principles of reality. For instance, almost every time of serious danger ends well, within 48 minutes. And all the others people have pointed out.

Just because they're conventions of episodic tv or films doesn't mean we have to like them, or shouldn't hope for better. We are probably fools for hoping for better, but still.
 
Shortcuts in pacing, dispensing with proper formalities and protocols, especially playing fast and loose with aliens all too comfortably and casually rendered it all meaningless eventually and reduced to bubble gum pop corn Mcdonald's fare quickly.

Time to make all near Human aliens all Human somehow with a better but uneasier explaination than we got in the Chase. Believability and respect for space are essential.

Trek became like a prostitute degraded over time because it was all about the power and the money because it wasn't their baby. They didn't have the integrity, reponsibility or obligation to it but rather wanted to destroy it. They weren't marrying it or have it's children. It was all about personalities making a name for themselves over Trek.
All the series tried to have some structure at first only to be abandoned soon after because they didn't have the courage and the balls to stand up to the faceless Berman and his business as usual all done by committe approach and his greasy suit was a very slippery slope. Ex. Braga fighting to get an ear piece for Hoshi (how much would have that cost?). Fighting Berman was a losing battle because there's no way to fight someone who desn't care - a slick glory seeking entrenched suit. We got Trek in Berman's image for twenty years. DS9 was a cruddy mess that was stymied as well and politics in hell. V'ger was just the opposite and just as bad. Piller couldn't fight the wet blanket greasy metal suit either. I mean where do you grab him. There's no way to hurt him or get rid of him, so.. he just got stronger and worse.

Now we got the JJ Adam's regime that doesn't care about Trek either sadistically given Davey Crockett's original hat by Santa Anna as a toy gift to play with for Christmas with blood still in it.Trek is a trophy bride now for the son of a suit. Married to the mob devil of the Bad robot guys who won again. She's doing a striptease in Vegas now like perminantly. Why would he give that up? The golden goose is trapped by greed and it's own bad reputation.

It's gonna take a Hitler like talented writer, visionary with character and clout to emerge but that's delusional because of power, politics, greed, privelidge and an evil corperation run by power hungry predator like another Enron.
 
KIRK: We'll beam aboard and stop it.
DAVID: You can't!
KIRK: Alright then, we'll lock onto it with the transporter, de-materialize it, and then flush the transporter buffer.
DAVID: Impossible! You won't be able to get a transporter lock on it due to the electromagnetic interference of the device.
KIRK: Scotty, I need warp speed in three minutes or we're all dead!

I'm sorry but this dialogue would completely ruin the flow of the scene. It throws a speed bump in the flow and ends up in the exact same place anyway. It's dialogue with no purpose.

Dialog with no purpose? Of course it has a purpose. To address the VERY obvious possible solution to the problem, that being to use the transporter. As I said, Kirk used this technique to save the day before, like beaming off Nomad or delaying the beaming up of the Klingons in "Day of the Dove". It should have been immediately considered. But we also need to have Spock die, so there's a reason given why the transporter wouldn't work. Kirk is no expert on the device, so he wouldn't know it wouldn't work until David told him. This is what I'm on about with regard to realism, within the context of the fictional genre.
 
Or perhaps they could have used the prefix code, to move Reliant away, possible use it take down the anti-matter containment grid etc..

there are lots of things they could have done.
 
KIRK: We'll beam aboard and stop it.
DAVID: You can't!
KIRK: Alright then, we'll lock onto it with the transporter, de-materialize it, and then flush the transporter buffer.
DAVID: Impossible! You won't be able to get a transporter lock on it due to the electromagnetic interference of the device.
KIRK: Scotty, I need warp speed in three minutes or we're all dead!

I'm sorry but this dialogue would completely ruin the flow of the scene. It throws a speed bump in the flow and ends up in the exact same place anyway. It's dialogue with no purpose.

Dialog with no purpose? Of course it has a purpose. To address the VERY obvious possible solution to the problem, that being to use the transporter. As I said, Kirk used this technique to save the day before, like beaming off Nomad or delaying the beaming up of the Klingons in "Day of the Dove". It should have been immediately considered. But we also need to have Spock die, so there's a reason given why the transporter wouldn't work. Kirk is no expert on the device, so he wouldn't know it wouldn't work until David told him. This is what I'm on about with regard to realism, within the context of the fictional genre.

There is an easier place to change the dialog and still state the shields won't function.

SAAVIK
Trouble with the nebula, sir, is all that static discharge and gas clouds our tactical display. Visual won't function, transporters and shields will be useless.

SPOCK
Sauce for the goose, Mister Saavik. The odds will be even.
 
Dialog with no purpose? Of course it has a purpose. To address the VERY obvious possible solution to the problem, that being to use the transporter. As I said, Kirk used this technique to save the day before, like beaming off Nomad or delaying the beaming up of the Klingons in "Day of the Dove". It should have been immediately considered. But we also need to have Spock die, so there's a reason given why the transporter wouldn't work. Kirk is no expert on the device, so he wouldn't know it wouldn't work until David told him. This is what I'm on about with regard to realism, within the context of the fictional genre.

Character #1: Here's my technobabble solution!
Character #2: And here's my technobabble explanation why your technobabble doesn't work.

And that's how the last two Star Trek TV shows were ruined.

That doesn't really make things more realistic.
 
As I said upthread, you also have the scenario of phasers. If you're stuck in the blast radius of the Genesis Device anyway, why not try to phaser it to death? Or photon torpedo it to death, for that matter? Knowing so much about it, David knows that that won't work. He's essentially said that when he simply said that it can't be stopped. We have to read him saying that as meaning that it can't be stopped by any conceivable means.

At some point, it becomes ponderous to explore every technobabbly scenario out loud. True, where that line is is a matter of taste. But generally speaking, TPTB have discouraged lengthy techno-digressions, and when it has been done they're often the target of criticism.
 
I suspect that if we were to go through each and every episode of Star Trek (All shows) we could no doubt find many instances of where using a previously seen method would resolve the plot easily.
 
Stargate and Stargate Atlantis did that a lot. They always seemed to remember what they did in previous episodes, and then threw some technobabble at you why it wouldn't work this time.
 
Still for the most part it didn't detract from their enjoyment.

Do we give some shows more latitude than others?
 
Still for the most part it didn't detract from their enjoyment.

Do we give some shows more latitude than others?
Well, personally, I found it lame after a while. Always of the same:

Scientist (Carter or McKay): Technobabble!
Soldier (O'Neill or Sheppard): Shut up!
Teal'c: Indeed.
 
I like a good dose of technobabble.

Example of when I think it's been good: all the discussion pertaining to the connection with the Elway Theorem in TNG: The High Ground, all of which advanced the story in a meaningful way. It felt like we were following a path towards discovery.

Example of when I think it's been bad: TMP, "Twelfth-power energy energy field." *yawn* It felt completely disconnected from anything to which the viewer could relate.
 
Example of when I think it's been bad: TMP, "Twelfth-power energy energy field." *yawn* It felt completely disconnected from anything to which the viewer could relate.
Spock: "One times ten to the twelfth-power energy field Captain."

Kirk: "My God, what units of energy Spock?"

Spock: "Uhh ... well it's ergs Captain."

Kirk: "So about 28 watts Spock?"

Spock (sigh): "Yes Captain."

McCoy: "Hey Spock, wake me when I should start worrying."

:)
 
Last edited:
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top