The lack of mourning/backstory for the original crew of Voyager
- Thread starter PopBoy
- Start date
The original poster do have some points here. There were no mourning and no one talked about Stadi, Cavit, Dr.Fitzgerald and the others later on.
But there are also some things I have to point out which can have affected this scenario.
First of all, it was a rather new crew. It was Voyager's first journey and I guess that most of the crew came from other assignments. We also had at least on new guy fresh from the Academy, Harry Kim.
Janeway did know Tuvok from previous postings but I guess he was the only one on that ship who Janeway had known for years. When it comes to the Maquis, some of them had been in Starfleet but not all and they didn't know any of those who had died.
Note also that the events in "Caretaker" took place at Stardate 48315.6 which according to my calculations is 26 April 2371 while the events in "Parallax" took place at Stardate 48439.7 which according to my calculations is 10 June 2371 so they did have some time to get over the mourning of their dead shipmates.
But there are also some things I have to point out which can have affected this scenario.
First of all, it was a rather new crew. It was Voyager's first journey and I guess that most of the crew came from other assignments. We also had at least on new guy fresh from the Academy, Harry Kim.
Janeway did know Tuvok from previous postings but I guess he was the only one on that ship who Janeway had known for years. When it comes to the Maquis, some of them had been in Starfleet but not all and they didn't know any of those who had died.
Note also that the events in "Caretaker" took place at Stardate 48315.6 which according to my calculations is 26 April 2371 while the events in "Parallax" took place at Stardate 48439.7 which according to my calculations is 10 June 2371 so they did have some time to get over the mourning of their dead shipmates.
What about Shattered?
Did Chakotay mention the 20 to thirty Starfleet Officers/Crewmen that were going to die, as well as half his own crew, when he was using B'Elanna's blossoming as cause to for Janeway to allow for future history to stay on track?
I remember when Future Delenn met her young Captain before he ever thought to admit that he was in love with her, during the War Without End over on Babylon 5 and she was a far sight more honest "We did everything we said we would, but the price John, the terrible price."
That young Janeway would NEVER have allowed 30 of her crewmen to be murdered just so some future guy would have a universe to stand on after she had finished being duped. And it was murder if you understand that premeditated inaction and omission are as damaging and vindictive as any other overt plot for a mass killing.
Did Chakotay mention the 20 to thirty Starfleet Officers/Crewmen that were going to die, as well as half his own crew, when he was using B'Elanna's blossoming as cause to for Janeway to allow for future history to stay on track?
I remember when Future Delenn met her young Captain before he ever thought to admit that he was in love with her, during the War Without End over on Babylon 5 and she was a far sight more honest "We did everything we said we would, but the price John, the terrible price."
That young Janeway would NEVER have allowed 30 of her crewmen to be murdered just so some future guy would have a universe to stand on after she had finished being duped. And it was murder if you understand that premeditated inaction and omission are as damaging and vindictive as any other overt plot for a mass killing.
Spock, Riker and Kira had no history with their CO prior to their postings. They didn't even know of them.
Only Trip did
I had the impression Janeway didn't know Cavit well.
Kira hated Sisko and every thing he stood for.
Another fricking imperialist invader trying to seize her homeland.
Destroying him passively aggressively while following orders was going to take more time and wear to send the bastard packing more-so than bombs and phaser fire had with the last goose stepping stooge who sat in that office.
How much egg on her face though when the new space Hitler turned out to be her messiah.
Now that might mean a completely new tack, but she had been reading about and praying to the Emissary all her life with complete devotion and faith.
So she knew him, even when she was completely wrong about the lad, she knew him intimately since almost before she could talk.
Another fricking imperialist invader trying to seize her homeland.
Destroying him passively aggressively while following orders was going to take more time and wear to send the bastard packing more-so than bombs and phaser fire had with the last goose stepping stooge who sat in that office.
How much egg on her face though when the new space Hitler turned out to be her messiah.
Now that might mean a completely new tack, but she had been reading about and praying to the Emissary all her life with complete devotion and faith.
So she knew him, even when she was completely wrong about the lad, she knew him intimately since almost before she could talk.
True, true.
I think present Janeway does. She was tasked with undoing all the past incursions at the end... that doesn't make much sense, because then she shouldn't. But such is Trek's time travel
Ducane went to the trouble of saying something like "Since everything you saw was in your past or present, there's no need to wipe your memory."
Here's the real rub.
There were a couple Janeway's and timelines left open so how many slightly slightly different Janeways were all integrated into the final composite by the stories end? 3? 6? 9?
Janeway would fight integration on principle even if she just hadn't first hand observed it making Braxton batshit.
Hells Janeway would blow up the Relativity and every one on it before she would consent to being mind wiped even a little.
Only morons trust future people.
Here's the real rub.
There were a couple Janeway's and timelines left open so how many slightly slightly different Janeways were all integrated into the final composite by the stories end? 3? 6? 9?
Janeway would fight integration on principle even if she just hadn't first hand observed it making Braxton batshit.
Hells Janeway would blow up the Relativity and every one on it before she would consent to being mind wiped even a little.
Only morons trust future people.
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How about if they bring you your eggs soft?
Double moron.
That Future guy actually admitted that Enterprise was destined to be destroyed, and that he was there to witness Archers death, thus a future with a living Archer and shipshape Enterprise would be problematic and destroy the future he came from.
It's a good thing (?????) Daniels died before he had a chance to explosively put history back on track to how things were supposed to be.
That Future guy actually admitted that Enterprise was destined to be destroyed, and that he was there to witness Archers death, thus a future with a living Archer and shipshape Enterprise would be problematic and destroy the future he came from.
It's a good thing (?????) Daniels died before he had a chance to explosively put history back on track to how things were supposed to be.
Huh?
Enterprise was a clunker lemon.
History says she exploded in the eleventh episode.
A space fart blew her off.
If Daniels hadn't been killed by by Silik in Coldfront, the next item on Daniels to-do-list would have been to blow up Enterprise or wind back time and make sure it was destroyed how it was supposed to have been without intervention from the Suliban and the 29th century.
Archer, living and breathing beyond the 11th episode was an aberrant and dangerous abomination derailing a good history into the unknown and possible awful future where Romulus or the Borg win centuries before Daniels parents never even met.
Archer was too self engrossed to realize that he was the enemy of all that was good an wholesome.
History says she exploded in the eleventh episode.
A space fart blew her off.
During the course of this "story" a Daniels from a suddenly redundant timeline which was predicated on the destruction of the Enterprise was killed in the line of Duty before he could reverse all the "mistakes" that were shaping the nature of the present around him.
If Daniels hadn't been killed by by Silik in Coldfront, the next item on Daniels to-do-list would have been to blow up Enterprise or wind back time and make sure it was destroyed how it was supposed to have been without intervention from the Suliban and the 29th century.
Archer, living and breathing beyond the 11th episode was an aberrant and dangerous abomination derailing a good history into the unknown and possible awful future where Romulus or the Borg win centuries before Daniels parents never even met.
Archer was too self engrossed to realize that he was the enemy of all that was good an wholesome.
Interesting. Didnt know of the gap between the pilot and the second episode. I dunno, i just felt maybe...in all the seven years the show was on we didnt get a glimpse into the "crew that coulda been". It might've been interesting in relation to how the crew that became the family that was Voyager. I would've preferred this over a silly Wildman story
Besides dealing with scientific fact, the moral of the officers was held together and dictated by Capt. Janeway, and no-one else. This wasn't Janeway and Chakotay or Chakotay and Tuvok it was just her. Insubordination was not tolerated and there were two Gods; God and Federation procedure. In Scientific Method a female crew member died from the invisible aliens and Janeway took control and threw the ship into jeopardy by racing between two giant stars. Her death Janeway took in very deeply.
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1. There is no god. Kirk killed him.
2. Neelix was the morale officer.
Sorry, did you mean to say morality or morale?
Because "moral" doesn't quite scan.
3. There's a song about drinking beer I just love, and the chorus goes "Forgeddabout the the last one, get yourself another..." I think it's called Bliss by a band called the Dudes in the 70s. What got Janeway riled up was the persistent certainty of further vivisection. She asked those aliens to fuck off and they wouldn't, so she did exactly what Picard did in where silence has lease. Well, Picard just took away the godlike aliens toys, Janeway decided to kill everyone including the buggers pumping/amping her rage and paranoia with a drip connected up to pure crazy.
2. Neelix was the morale officer.
Sorry, did you mean to say morality or morale?
Because "moral" doesn't quite scan.
3. There's a song about drinking beer I just love, and the chorus goes "Forgeddabout the the last one, get yourself another..." I think it's called Bliss by a band called the Dudes in the 70s. What got Janeway riled up was the persistent certainty of further vivisection. She asked those aliens to fuck off and they wouldn't, so she did exactly what Picard did in where silence has lease. Well, Picard just took away the godlike aliens toys, Janeway decided to kill everyone including the buggers pumping/amping her rage and paranoia with a drip connected up to pure crazy.
I agree that the backstory considering the killed crewmembers were badly handled.
But I will also like to point out that there were two months between the events in "Caretaker" (Stardate 48315.6 = Monday 26 April) and the events in "Parallax (Stardate 48439.7 = Thursday 10 June) so maybe they had a mourning period during those "lost weeks".
But I will also like to point out that there were two months between the events in "Caretaker" (Stardate 48315.6 = Monday 26 April) and the events in "Parallax (Stardate 48439.7 = Thursday 10 June) so maybe they had a mourning period during those "lost weeks".
Or the lack of mourning could just be put down to 'one of those Voyager things' - instant acceptance of / by the Maquis, lack of character development, never ending supplies of torpedoes, endless shuttlecraft, disappearing damage, power restrictions everywhere except on the Holodeck etc. etc...
I disagree.
Captain's from past shows and what's been mention in Trek pick their senior staff based on their career dossier's. Even Sisko didn't know Jadzia beyond her dossier. While he knew Curzon he knew next to nothing about Jadzia beyond her career achievements listed in her dossier. They wouldn't pick members based on how well they know them but rather how well that persons career achievements fit the function the ship is assigned too. The only member on Voyager handpicked by Janeway would be Tuvok. Janeway got Tom out of jail because his father was a personal friend of Janeway's father. What better way to a promotion than to redeem an Admiral's son.
It was Voyager's first mission.
Is it possible that she sent Tuvok out before she had a ship and crew accounted for to bring him back?
How long would it have taken Tuvok to rise to the point that he got to be Chakotay's first officer sitting on a three chair command deck?
Maybe the crew of the Val Jean was just as spanking fresh new too?
But why would Starfleet target such low hanging fruit?
Unless they thought that he was weak?
They could flip him?
Then move up the foodchain until they got to some serious and dangerous Maquis.
Or?
Eddington was still back on earth at the time, if he was situated anywhere near forward planning, maybe Mike planned this mission and he was just cleaning the scrub on his own bush?
Is it possible that she sent Tuvok out before she had a ship and crew accounted for to bring him back?
How long would it have taken Tuvok to rise to the point that he got to be Chakotay's first officer sitting on a three chair command deck?
Maybe the crew of the Val Jean was just as spanking fresh new too?
But why would Starfleet target such low hanging fruit?
Unless they thought that he was weak?
They could flip him?
Then move up the foodchain until they got to some serious and dangerous Maquis.
Or?
Eddington was still back on earth at the time, if he was situated anywhere near forward planning, maybe Mike planned this mission and he was just cleaning the scrub on his own bush?
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