The Intersection of Canon and the Prime Timeline

[lawman]

I chose option #1 (it's clearly canon, and it's at least provisionally prime), but I also lean strongly toward #3 (it may ultimately reveal itself to be close-but-no-cigar).

That said, in my headcanon I don't think of the "prime timeline" as a single integrated whole. I keep planning to start a longer thread about this one of these days, but for the moment suffice it to say that I'm in the camp that thinks Trek has had enough time-travel shenanigans over the years that the version of "prime" from which the Abrams movies were shown to branch off isn't necessarily the same version we were seeing in any particular past series.

It's close, but there are differences. This makes it easier to rationalize at least some of what DSC has thrown at us.

But seriously, I decided in my teens (having already seen lots of TOS before TNG started in the UK) that TOS might be the spirit of Trek, but large portions of it needed to be ignored as "apocrypha" in order for it to make sense as one timeline.

Oh, hell no. TOS is Star Trek, period. It is the ur-canon. It is the original from which all others followed. If something in some later production is irreconcilably at odds with the original, then in my book the original wins. Every time.

 

[Spot261]

Don't care, but it is canon regardless of anyone's opinion

 

[dahj]

My vote:

 

[INACTIVERedDwarf]

Option 7 - it is unclear and subject to revision.

We have some people in an official capacity claiming it is prime canon, and actual visuals saying otherwise. The two are at variance, and we may not get a definitive answer until years after the show has aired.

 

[.:: TSN ::.]

I debated between
Discovery is canon and it takes place in the prime timeline
And
Discovery is canon and takes place in another unvierse that we have seen before (if so, which?)

Voted on the first option since I believe that this is the Prime timeline now. A timeline that started when the Borg crashed on Earth during The First Contact. Timeline that consists of Enterprise and now Discovery. When you watch Enterprise and then continue with the Discovery everything fits. Ships are more advanced, they still wear blue uniforms, even though they are being replaced with more colorful versions next season. Everything beyond Discovery is in the flux, waves moving to the future, changing one thing, keeping another. Not sure what we would see if the Discovery would travel to the future, maybe we would see the familiar TNG crew, maybe not.

 

[Scargate]

These options feel slightly obtuse. "Discovery is non-canon and therefore doesn't take place in any universe in the Star Trek multiverse." What does that mean?

By definition of existing it becomes canon within the Star Trek Multiverse. The problem is how inconsistent and badly thought out some of these show choices have been. A spore drive. The Klingons. A multiverse network that they single-handedly save. The basic look and feel of damn near everything.

I don't know how to feel about Discovery and canon. It's a show that seems to seek out new ways to divide the fanbase by incorporating technology alien to the time period. The Klingon design alone, which many can argue has been done before, just doesn't work. It's not that the show isn't canon, it's that it's trampling over established canon, rewriting history, and doing a bad job at telling a compelling and engaging story with strong characters and interesting plots. If you rewrite the look of something and it works, it works. We saw that with the Klingon look from TOS to TNG. This just looked like a worse version of the Klingons we got in the JJ Verse. To say, well people were upset with the look of the Klingons initially for TNG is fine, but come on. It was just a bad design.

"In the different versions of Trek, the Klingons have never been completely consistent. We will introduce several different houses with different styles. Hopefully, fans will become more invested in the characters than worried about the redesign." - Harberts

The Klingons became more and more consistent within TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT. Slight variations over time. Never have they had Alien heads that protrude out because the creators thought they should have some sort of bat sonar?

I can only hope that they will come out and say, or that a storyline will reveal, that this isn't set in the prime universe. Yeah, people will bitch for ten minutes that they've lied to us, but once they just say it, then anything goes. They can do whatever they want storywise. The future is their oyster. But it looks like they're sticking to their guns, planting this in the prime universe, and maybe are going to be righting some of the problems of season 1? If season 2 comes out strong and the interior of the Enterprise isn't a Discovery clone, and they figure out a way to kill the Spore Drive, I think a lot more fans will come back to the show, and this canon discussion won't be that big of a deal. But right now, they haven't situated themselves incredibly well in the period the show is set in. Whoever decided to incorporate holographic communication, where people are moving around and sitting down, shame on them. It's like if you're telling a story set in Rome in 14 AD, and people have access to steam-powered boats, wear Egyptian clothing, and tell time using grandfather clocks.

 

[dahj]

It's all JJ's fault.

If they didn't make a big deal out of how the '09 movie is a different timeline(to prevent people throwing hissy fits how it erases! all of Star Trek, which didn't work, people still complained ), we wouldn't even be having this conversation at all, people would just accept it's the only universe/timeline and do the usual whinge about all the things that don't quite fit like they did with Enterprise, and all the shows before it...

 

[PiotrB]

Canon, prime timeline. Visuals and some technicalities are slightly upgraded for our time. If they weren't DSC would be a caricature of science fiction show. Regarding any contradictions in continuity (i.e. holograms, cloak, Klingon look etc.) newer show always wins and replaces older show's depiction of story.

 

[BillJ]

If something in some later production is irreconcilably at odds with the original, then in my book the original wins. Every time.

Winner! We have none of this without the original Star Trek. It is funny how quickly people are able to ignore it for whatever the flashy current trend is.

 

[Graham]

Canon? Sure, why not.

Prime? No it isn't. They claim it is, but their actions show their words to be lies. It's long mystified me why they seem so determined to say it's a Prime universe show when it obviously isn't.

I would like it if it fitted the JJ universe, since visually that's obviously what they were going for. Not sure if the timeline works out, though.

 

[Mytran]

I debated between
Discovery is canon and it takes place in the prime timeline
And
Discovery is canon and takes place in another unvierse that we have seen before (if so, which?)

Voted on the first option since I believe that this is the Prime timeline now. A timeline that started when the Borg crashed on Earth during The First Contact. Timeline that consists of Enterprise and now Discovery. When you watch Enterprise and then continue with the Discovery everything fits. Ships are more advanced, they still wear blue uniforms, even though they are being replaced with more colorful versions next season. Everything beyond Discovery is in the flux, waves moving to the future, changing one thing, keeping another. Not sure what we would see if the Discovery would travel to the future, maybe we would see the familiar TNG crew, maybe not.

That works out pretty well, except that the uniforms and ship design of ENT are clearly established to be a part of the TNG Prime continuity.
Unless we we just ignore the events of TATV? Come to think of it, that's good advice in most situations...

 

[Spot261]

These options feel slightly obtuse. "Discovery is non-canon and therefore doesn't take place in any universe in the Star Trek multiverse." What does that mean?

By definition of existing it becomes canon within the Star Trek Multiverse. The problem is how inconsistent and badly thought out some of these show choices have been. A spore drive. The Klingons. A multiverse network that they single-handedly save. The basic look and feel of damn near everything.

I don't know how to feel about Discovery and canon. It's a show that seems to seek out new ways to divide the fanbase by incorporating technology alien to the time period. The Klingon design alone, which many can argue has been done before, just doesn't work. It's not that the show isn't canon, it's that it's trampling over established canon, rewriting history, and doing a bad job at telling a compelling and engaging story with strong characters and interesting plots. If you rewrite the look of something and it works, it works. We saw that with the Klingon look from TOS to TNG. This just looked like a worse version of the Klingons we got in the JJ Verse. To say, well people were upset with the look of the Klingons initially for TNG is fine, but come on. It was just a bad design.

"In the different versions of Trek, the Klingons have never been completely consistent. We will introduce several different houses with different styles. Hopefully, fans will become more invested in the characters than worried about the redesign." - Harberts

The Klingons became more and more consistent within TNG, DS9, VOY, and ENT. Slight variations over time. Never have they had Alien heads that protrude out because the creators thought they should have some sort of bat sonar?

I can only hope that they will come out and say, or that a storyline will reveal, that this isn't set in the prime universe. Yeah, people will bitch for ten minutes that they've lied to us, but once they just say it, then anything goes. They can do whatever they want storywise. The future is their oyster. But it looks like they're sticking to their guns, planting this in the prime universe, and maybe are going to be righting some of the problems of season 1? If season 2 comes out strong and the interior of the Enterprise isn't a Discovery clone, and they figure out a way to kill the Spore Drive, I think a lot more fans will come back to the show, and this canon discussion won't be that big of a deal. But right now, they haven't situated themselves incredibly well in the period the show is set in. Whoever decided to incorporate holographic communication, where people are moving around and sitting down, shame on them. It's like if you're telling a story set in Rome in 14 AD, and people have access to steam-powered boats, wear Egyptian clothing, and tell time using grandfather clocks.

Blah, blah, blah, the klingons, blah blah, they're different and I don't like it, blah blah blah

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

I quit watching at the mid-season break, so can't make a call one way or the other. My plan is to test the waters again when season two starts. If they manage to win me over, fine. If not, it gives me an extra hour for writing.

 

[BillJ]

I quit watching at the mid-season break, so can't make a call one way or the other. My plan is to test the waters again when season two starts. If they manage to win me over, fine. If not, it gives me an extra hour for writing.

I'll give it a look after they wrap up the Spock/Enterprise non-sense. Unless I hear from people that it is simply amazing.

 

[Mad Jack Wolfe]

I'll give it a look after they wrap up the Spock/Enterprise non-sense. Unless I hear from people that it is simply amazing.

I'd forgotten about that. Maybe the "Enterprise" they showed is really the USS John Harrison instead.

 

[Scargate]

Blah, blah, blah, the klingons, blah blah, they're different and I don't like it, blah blah blah

 

[Tuskin38]

Since CBS can't touch anything from the Kelvin movies, I'm curious how they'll deal with Romulus should the Picard series (or anything post-2387) happen.

It's always possible they'll just ignore it. The fandom will just love that

I can’t see why CBS can’t reference Romulus going boom

 

[Spot261]

That was probably way too harsh and I apologise, but the whole Klingon redesign complaint has long since grown really, really tired. We spent the first few seasons of TNG with people saying exactly the same things, it got old then too but at least it was only on the letter pages of fanzines.

 

[Tuskin38]

but their actions show their words to be lies.

Where, when?

The show has been as consistent lore wise as the other series.

None of the other series were 100% consistent with each other either.

 

[Dukhat]

Where, when?

The show has been as consistent lore wise as the other series.

None of the other series were 100% consistent with each other either.

You keep using that word, 'lore,' like it actually means something. The Adam West Batman show, the Tim Burton films, the Christopher Nolan films, and Gotham all share the same 'lore' but do not take place in the same universe and are not consistent with each other. This is no different other than CBS toting its increasingly silly line about DSC taking place ten years before TOS.