The two characters with the most frequent costume changes (six) were guests to the Enterprise: Lenore Kaidian and Khan.
"The Holiest Thing" Released
- Thread starter GSchnitzer
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The two characters with the most frequent costume changes (six) were guests to the Enterprise: Lenore Kaidian and Khan.
This one takes the cake. All of the characters felt so authentic, and I found the themes to be beautifully expressed in the story. Carol and Kirk, each privately understanding the heavy burdens of leadership, resonated beautifully with the unexpectedly deep intersections of their two world. The comically sudden familiarity and emotional entanglement which proceeded was a fantastic classic-Trek style romance, and the drama it created paid off well in the final scene (between Kirk and Carol).
Interestingly, that scene was shot much earlier. The contrast I saw between the earlier, lighter Kirk in that scene compared to the man we saw most of the episode was startling. It really drilled home how much Brian Gross has assumed command of the role. It was an auspicious performance. Well Done!
I loved how Spock existed to rain on everyone's parade, the perfect dramatic foil for the Romantic, rose-tinted A-plot. The best Star Trek episodes involve ideas, each embodied within in a character, playing and crackling and falling into one another, while emotion and logic struggle eternally.
The theme of dedication to your work, or to love of another, but not both was perfect for each of the characters of Kirk and Carol. And each level of the production, from the writing, to the acting, to the lighting and sets (Arboretum! Woo!) was in synergy to sell me on it. I really haven't shipped on a fan film like this for a while, but I was really feeling the love. <3
The B-plot of actually uncovering the cause of the accident was passable, and did it's job. Yeah, seeing Scotty and Ferengi was a little fan-wanky for a series this mature, but I think that without all that stuff to balance out the romance this would have been like watching Titanic. And I find when watching fan-films with people less into Trek than me that the low-hanging fruit tend to be the parts they appreciate the most.
Way to go New Voyages! The Holiest Thing was excellent, and I know I'll have lots of good times for years to come sharing with this with my friends. 10/10
Interestingly, that scene was shot much earlier. The contrast I saw between the earlier, lighter Kirk in that scene compared to the man we saw most of the episode was startling. It really drilled home how much Brian Gross has assumed command of the role. It was an auspicious performance. Well Done!
I loved how Spock existed to rain on everyone's parade, the perfect dramatic foil for the Romantic, rose-tinted A-plot. The best Star Trek episodes involve ideas, each embodied within in a character, playing and crackling and falling into one another, while emotion and logic struggle eternally.
The theme of dedication to your work, or to love of another, but not both was perfect for each of the characters of Kirk and Carol. And each level of the production, from the writing, to the acting, to the lighting and sets (Arboretum! Woo!) was in synergy to sell me on it. I really haven't shipped on a fan film like this for a while, but I was really feeling the love. <3
The B-plot of actually uncovering the cause of the accident was passable, and did it's job. Yeah, seeing Scotty and Ferengi was a little fan-wanky for a series this mature, but I think that without all that stuff to balance out the romance this would have been like watching Titanic. And I find when watching fan-films with people less into Trek than me that the low-hanging fruit tend to be the parts they appreciate the most.
Way to go New Voyages! The Holiest Thing was excellent, and I know I'll have lots of good times for years to come sharing with this with my friends. 10/10
Shipped? How old are you?
Twenty seven... Has the lingo with the kids changed or something?
I've only read the last couple of pages, so I don't know if this has been addressed, but while I enjoyed this outing, finding it well made and well acted, etc., I have to take issue with the relationship between Carol and Kirk. Not that it took place, mind you, but when. David is about 30 in TWOK, and looks it. But if this shows David's actual origins, he can't be any older than 13, and then dying at 13/14. That just doesn't work for me.
This is the reverse problem I've had with NV/PII's inclusion of Peter Kirk. While Peter was 13 in his first appearance, he shows up on the Enterprise two years later as a 24-year-old. Thus, Peter is way too old on NV/PII. But David is now much too young. Think about it. These two characters should be about the same age, 13-15 or so during TOS, and 30 or so during TWOK. Of everything that NV/PII has done, these two make me wonder just how closely they are actually adhering to the established timeline.
This is the reverse problem I've had with NV/PII's inclusion of Peter Kirk. While Peter was 13 in his first appearance, he shows up on the Enterprise two years later as a 24-year-old. Thus, Peter is way too old on NV/PII. But David is now much too young. Think about it. These two characters should be about the same age, 13-15 or so during TOS, and 30 or so during TWOK. Of everything that NV/PII has done, these two make me wonder just how closely they are actually adhering to the established timeline.
I believe that James has taken the position that, based on the art design differences between "Space Seed" and movie era Trek (TWOK), far longer than Kirk's "fifteen years" must have passed--something more like 20 or 25 years. The two "'Space Seed' took place 15 years ago" lines in TWOK are simple production mistakes.
Don't shoot me: I'm just the messenger.
Don't shoot me: I'm just the messenger.
^^ Or a little thing called artistic licence!
I care less about that and more about whether the episode told an effective story.
That was our general consensus, too. And we hope it was indeed an effective story.
It wasn't two months. It was less than a week. That's why some of us are saying it's too rushed.
Okay, the insta-romance is something that's a staple of many TV shows and movies, and Star Trek is no different... and one of the worst offenders in that regard isn't actually Kirk - it's McCoy (in "The World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky"). He was single, married, and single/separated/divorced (they don't tell us that part) again, all in about 3 days, tops.
What I find problematic about the fast-forward type of romance in this episode, though, is that it's less than a week for Kirk and Carol to meet, fall in love, have sex, he proposes marriage, then she says "No, and by the way, I'm pregnant, it's a boy, stay away from us." I don't care what kind of technology or medical advances they have in the 23rd century - that just doesn't make any sense and while it was going on, I was having a "WTF???" reaction. If the episode really had taken place over the course of a month or two it would have been more believable. And honestly, I get the impression that while Kirk fell in love with Carol, Carol didn't fall in love with Kirk. And then there was that whole bit about her announcing her pregnancy, juxtaposed with the dialogue about her birthing planets... yikes.
Agreed. And I don't remember McCoy mentioning that Kirk should be checked over after beaming down into all that radiation.
Are modern audiences just so habituated to the idea of the replicator that we just assume now that this is how the characters get the clothes they change into? Obviously the TOS era stories don't have replicators, so where did Carol's other clothing come from - does the Enterprise keep a clothing bank on board that loans stuff to people? Did Carol mention to a female crewmember that "I've got a date with the Captain; I wish I had something else to wear besides my uniform" and the other person just found some stuff in her closet to lend?
Yes, some people spend time thinking about things like this...
That's not actually a problem, though, as both characters had their belongings with them (I assume that when Khan was brought aboard the Enterprise his personal belongings were brought along as well).
With Peter Kirk, I just assumed they'd decided to apply SORAS (Soap Opera Rapid Aging Syndrome). So that didn't bother me. The only thing that did bother me about Peter Kirk was his long, floppy hair. Even if long hair was fashionable in this version of the 23rd century, it still looked unprofessional. Other than that, I liked the character.
This line in TWoK, to me, always came across as Carol, hitting Kirk back with the lines he used when he broke it off with her.. Especially the line before that,
The romance alluded to inTWoK seemed much deeper than what was portrayed in this episode. The dialogue in the film suggests both got hurt, and that just wasn't the case in this episode.
Obviously the TOS era stories don't have replicators, so where did Carol's other clothing come from - does the Enterprise keep a clothing bank on board that loans stuff to people?
Yes, some people spend time thinking about things like this...
Actually, YES. Or at least all exploratory ship's in history have. The "guy" is called a Quartermaster and (s)he's supposed to have uniforms, clothing, supplies etc that the crew can buy during their voyage. That's coming from a maritime historian. So, one would expect the exploratory ships would still have this guy doing this job, though surely it would be different than someone you can get a new sewing needle from to stitch up your pants or a new pencil to write to your sweetheart before you left the letter in a turtle shell on the Galopagus islands. (the quartermaster was also in charge of assigning cabins, and making sure the ship had adequate supplies of food etc.)
Well, Lenore was an actress with trunks full of clothes. The troupe probably didn't take all her trunks and that's where Marcus found her clothes. ;-)
In "City," before they jump through the portal, Spock says he can get them within a month of when McCoy arrives, perhaps within a week. Later Spock says that he thinks they are a week before McCoy arrives, but he's not certain. We know at least a few days passed by the time that Spock says that he's at least three weeks away from a mnemonic memory circuit, because Kirk says that he's spent three-days' wages on food and supplies. At that point Kirk says that McCoy will be along in a few days. So, at that point, they've likely been in the city at most a week or so, but possibly only three or four days.
After they steal the clock tools and after Spock's first circuit overheats and Kirk inquires when Spock can try again, Spock says at least two more days, at which point Kirk points out that McCoy might have been in the city for a week. Likely, then, at least a week has passed since Spock gave the three-week estimate prior to stealing the tools, and probably more like ten days, so the use of the clock tools probably shaved a week or so off the work on the memory circuit. So, when they run the tricorder a second time, it's at least two more days after that.
That's overall at least two to three weeks in the city. It doesn't fit together much tighter than that.
^ Hey, no sweat.
I said marriage. Unless you elope to Las Vegas, I guess it takes a bit of preparation to organize a wedding, even if you propose on the first date.
(Of course we also have heard stories about marriage after two months and divorce after three, so I guess my point is not really a point).
Yes, I know the word "marriage" was in your post. You said:
The episode took place over a time period of less than a week, from initial meeting to rejection of marriage proposal and announcing her pregnancy and the sex of the fetus. So I have no idea where you're getting "two months" from here.
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