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The Good In Every Episode...

Fury has that opening scene where it's Tuvok's birthday and he obliges to blow out the candle because "It was a fire hazard".

I like that scene, maybe the best scene that sums up Janeway and Tuvok's friendship. Tuvok betrays his affection for Janeway, then makes a weak rationalization of it.
 
Fury has that opening scene where it's Tuvok's birthday and he obliges to blow out the candle because "It was a fire hazard".

I like that scene, maybe the best scene that sums up Janeway and Tuvok's friendship. Tuvok betrays his affection for Janeway, then makes a weak rationalization of it.

I really loved that scene too. :luvlove:
 
I've seen "Course:Oblivion" take some hits, but I thought it was pretty compelling and a bit tragic.
 
Fury:
I like that scene, maybe the best scene that sums up Janeway and Tuvok's friendship. Tuvok betrays his affection for Janeway, then makes a weak rationalization of it.

I'd add the scene in Alliances too (an interested episode, especially for Seska, the best vilain IMHO, but not a great episode for me), where Tuvok explains to Janeway, via a metaphore (using a flower), how making alliances, even on a temporary duration, can be sometimes profitable for both parties.
I tried to find the clip but with no success. However, this is the text:

[Tuvok's quarters]

(Tuvok is tending his orchids when the doorbell rings.)
TUVOK: Come in. Captain, this is unexpected.
JANEWAY: I've been in your quarters before.
TUVOK: Indeed, but so rarely that I can remember each instance. Vulcan spice tea, hot. And it was always at a time when you were particularly troubled.
JANEWAY: Right as usual. Thank you. Commander Chakotay has proposed that we make an alliance with one of the Kazon factions. We wouldn't give them weapons or technology, but we would pledge to support and defend them if they're attacked.
TUVOK: I am sure that made you uncomfortable.
JANEWAY: How can I consider it? I can't just walk away from the precepts Starfleet has laid our for us. You don't deal with outlaws. You don't involve yourself in the political machinations of other cultures. It goes against everything I believe, everything I trained for, everything experience has taught me.
TUVOK: Quite right.
JANEWAY: Do I hear a however coming?
TUVOK: You are perceptive, Captain. I believe Commander Chakotay's suggestion does have merit.
JANEWAY: Help me understand that.
TUVOK: When I was a young man, a great visionary named Spock recommended an alliance between the Federation and the Klingon empire. This produced a major dispute. The Klingons, after all, were outlaws, employing violence and brutality in order to build their empire. I myself spoke out against such a coalition. But the alliance was forged and it brought a stability to the quadrant that had not been there for two hundred years. Spock's suggestion, so controversial at first, proved to be the cornerstone of peace.
JANEWAY: There are some differences here. By allying ourselves to one faction, we'd be giving that faction more power than the others. That would clearly affect the internal politics of all the Kazon.
TUVOK: I understand your concern, but remember, it would only be a temporary arrangement since we are on our way out of this quadrant. In the meantime, it might bring stability to the region and security for us.
JANEWAY: Once we're gone they'll probably go back to their in-fighting.
TUVOK: Perhaps. But even temporary stability can bring an appreciation for peace. This flower is a rare hybrid. As far as I know it exists nowhere else in the galaxy. I created it by grafting a cutting from a South American orchid onto a Vulcan favinit plant. I doubted the graft would take, and indeed the plant was sickly at first. However, after a few weeks both plants adapted to their new condition and in fact became stronger than either had been alone.

 
"Elogium" is gross & awful but I loved the scene where Tuvok tells Neelix about fatherhood. It was one of the many great instances Tim Russ gave us on the show where he was able to convey great emotion without being emotional about it.

"Threshold" & "Blood Fever" are both bad episodes that become hilarious once you decide to view them as comedies. "Tom Paris, beloved radioactive mutant."

"Memorial" is actually a pretty good episode up until the ending when Captain Janeway decides to brainwash potentially thousands of unwitting aliens who might bumble into this part of the galaxy.

The ending of "Tuvix" also pisses me off but I love the fact that the Doctor refuses to take any part in the procedure to separate Tuvix against his will.

What I meant is that's how Kes will be remembered by most of the Star Trek fans, as a crazy witch.

Kes felt so out of character in that episode to begin with, I barely feel like it's her anyway. When I remember Kes, I really only think of Seasons 1-3. "Fury" doesn't come into play for me at all.

And I think "Fury" did a decent job of recreating the general feel of the early seasons of the show. Probably their only misstep there was that the Doctor actually had a deeper voice back then, which I don't think Robert Picardo bothered with when they did the past scenes in the episode.

I thought "Friendship One" was depressing as hell, and the "moral" was just bizarre for a series about exploration. But the baby's survival was a high point, and I liked the mutual empathy between the mother and Tom, then an expectant father.

Given the show's often casual disregard for its own continuity, I appreciated when Neelix tried to empathize with the aliens by telling them about how his whole family on Rinax was wiped out by the Metrion Cascade.
 
What I meant is that's how Kes will be remembered by most of the Star Trek fans, as a crazy witch.

That's not true. most of us pretended it was like a book- not cannon. So what if a few people who skimmed thought that. At best it was those who watched over someone's shoulder while they were off in search of a beer. Most of us do not see her like that at all. I deny it anytime I watch it and just pretend it's an AU.
 
Since Fury was already mentioned I wanted to share this I just saw in another thread. It sums up my feelings on Fury very well.

Posted by@Rahul
"Seriously though, I loved that episode.
I loved seeing Kes again. And I think her journey was a believable one. Her leaving on "The gift" was always an ambigious one - both bursting with potential, but also with danger. It was very fitting with the tone of later Voyager that not everything worked out perfectly fine. And Kes didn't turn out flatly evil - just misguided. Which I believe can be disappointing for a fan of the character. But it fits very well with her journey, how naive but still strong-willed she was in the beginning and still is, just without the youthful optimism. It's just a more tragic story. But ultimately, she still was able to find back to her true self. She just wasn't capable of handling to be completely alone with the unknown and her expansive powers for most of her life. She needed the compassion and friendship of others. Which she didn't get that in her new plane of existence. I love that story. It's a sad one, yes. But also a much more complex and intimate look at her character than we ever got before.

Overall though, I think "Fury" was more of a story for the fans still watching Voyager, in the style of the later series, with more complex and darker themes, and a nostalgic look back at the early seasons. And not an episode to be singularly watched by the people who left early on and were expecting a small, friendly greeting of a familiar character to show by years later."
 
"Elogium" is gross & awful but I loved the scene where Tuvok tells Neelix about fatherhood. It was one of the many great instances Tim Russ gave us on the show where he was able to convey great emotion without being emotional about it.

"Threshold" & "Blood Fever" are both bad episodes that become hilarious once you decide to view them as comedies. "Tom Paris, beloved radioactive mutant."

"Memorial" is actually a pretty good episode up until the ending when Captain Janeway decides to brainwash potentially thousands of unwitting aliens who might bumble into this part of the galaxy.

The ending of "Tuvix" also pisses me off but I love the fact that the Doctor refuses to take any part in the procedure to separate Tuvix against his will.



Kes felt so out of character in that episode to begin with, I barely feel like it's her anyway. When I remember Kes, I really only think of Seasons 1-3. "Fury" doesn't come into play for me at all.

And I think "Fury" did a decent job of recreating the general feel of the early seasons of the show. Probably their only misstep there was that the Doctor actually had a deeper voice back then, which I don't think Robert Picardo bothered with when they did the past scenes in the episode.



Given the show's often casual disregard for its own continuity, I appreciated when Neelix tried to empathize with the aliens by telling them about how his whole family on Rinax was wiped out by the Metrion Cascade.

I agree on "Elogium" which is a weak episode but the scene with Tuvok and Neelix is very good. I also like the scene where kes eats beetles and freaks out and have to be carried to sickbay by Neelix.

"Threshold" is funny if you consider the whole episode as a nightmare JKaneway had after eating too much of Neelix's food. If tehy had added a scene at the end where janeway wakes up, the whole episode would have been great entertainment.

I don't care that much for "Blood fever" though.

The insultting s** episode in season 6 was a piece of s*** which should never have been filmed. I see no resemblance at all between the real Kes and the disgusting witch who showed up in that episode.

As for the recreation the general feel of the early seasons, I saw the flashback scenes as nothing but insulting.
 
Since Fury was already mentioned I wanted to share this I just saw in another thread. It sums up my feelings on Fury very well.

Posted by@Rahul
"Seriously though, I loved that episode.
I loved seeing Kes again. And I think her journey was a believable one. Her leaving on "The gift" was always an ambigious one - both bursting with potential, but also with danger. It was very fitting with the tone of later Voyager that not everything worked out perfectly fine. And Kes didn't turn out flatly evil - just misguided. Which I believe can be disappointing for a fan of the character. But it fits very well with her journey, how naive but still strong-willed she was in the beginning and still is, just without the youthful optimism. It's just a more tragic story. But ultimately, she still was able to find back to her true self. She just wasn't capable of handling to be completely alone with the unknown and her expansive powers for most of her life. She needed the compassion and friendship of others. Which she didn't get that in her new plane of existence. I love that story. It's a sad one, yes. But also a much more complex and intimate look at her character than we ever got before.

Overall though, I think "Fury" was more of a story for the fans still watching Voyager, in the style of the later series, with more complex and darker themes, and a nostalgic look back at the early seasons. And not an episode to be singularly watched by the people who left early on and were expecting a small, friendly greeting of a familiar character to show by years later."

I strongly disagree with that quoted comment. I see nothing in those comments which actually justifies the character destruction that we had to endure in this insulting piece of s*** that this episode is.

It's just a futile attempt to defend the worst episode ever made in any TV show.

I guess that the one who wrote it hate Kes and was happy to see her being destroyed

I hate that episode with a vengeance and I don't have any friendly feelings for those who created it either. :censored:
 
I strongly disagree with that quoted comment. I see nothing in those comments which actually justifies the character destruction that we had to endure in this insulting piece of s*** that this episode is.

It's just a futile attempt to defend the worst episode ever made in any TV show.

I guess that the one who wrote it hate Kes and was happy to see her being destroyed

I hate that episode with a vengeance and I don't have any friendly feelings for those who created it either. :censored:
Just because someone doesn't hate Fury doesn't mean they hate Kes. If you dislike it great! But not everyone agrees. It doesn't mean they hate Kes or thinks she was destroyed. Someone wrote a well thought out post about their opinion on an episode. You don't have to agree or like it but you have to accept that some people feel this way
 
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Just because someone doesn't hate Fury doesn't mean they hate Kes. If you dislike it great! But not everyone agrees. It doesn't mean they hate Kes or thinks she was destroyed. Someone wrote a well thought out post about their opinion on an episode. You don't have to agree or like it but you have to accept that some people feel this way

Sorry lynx, I agree with her. And It's not even on my rewatch list, so don't kill me with your angry thoughts.
 
I strongly disagree with that quoted comment. I see nothing in those comments which actually justifies the character destruction that we had to endure in this insulting piece of s*** that this episode is.

It's just a futile attempt to defend the worst episode ever made in any TV show.

I guess that the one who wrote it hate Kes and was happy to see her being destroyed

I hate that episode with a vengeance and I don't have any friendly feelings for those who created it either. :censored:

Lol. Yeah, no.

(My original comment started with how much Kes and Luke Skywalker in the Last Jedi are alike btw. - there's similar disagreement on how both are portrayed in their later life. But your comment is... utterly ridiculous)
 
Just because someone doesn't hate Fury doesn't mean they hate Kes. If you dislike it great! But not everyone agrees. It doesn't mean they hate Kes or thinks she was destroyed. Someone wrote a well thought out post about their opinion on an episode. You don't have to agree or like it but you have to accept that some people feel this way
As you surely understand, I've had this debate on several occasions on several forums all since the day I unfortunately watched that horrible excuse for a Star Trek episode.

Due to those experiences, I must state that of all the people I've debated this issue with, 95% like the episode because they hate the character and/or the actress or strongly dislike the character and the actress and were happy to see her go.

The 5% who like the episode for other reasons have mostly stated the amazing explosions and such things as a reason for liking the episode and in a few occasions they have actually liked character destruction which might be the result of the ongoing doom-and-gloom trend in TV-series and movies.

Catarina said:
Sorry lynx, I agree with her. And It's not even on my rewatch list, so don't kill me with your angry thoughts.

Ah, don't worry, I don't have the powers that Kes showed up in "Cold Fire".
Not to mention that I'm actually a very nice and friendly person. Ask Sophie74656!
She and I have a lot of heated debates but in some strange way we do get along. :)

But I must admit that I do find it hard to understand why anyone can have the slightest appreciation for that piece of garbage which that episode is.

I must also admit that despite the fact that I'm a more easy-going and sympathetic person overall in thiese days than I was about 10-15 years ago, the memories of that episode and the metions of it still brings back the worst sides of my personality.

Rahul said:

(My original comment started with how much Kes and Luke Skywalker in the Last Jedi are alike btw. - there's similar disagreement on how both are portrayed in their later life. But your comment is... utterly ridiculous)

Ridiculous? I don't see what's ridiculous in my comment. Strongly disliking unnecessary and insulting character destruction isn't ridiculous. I see it as evidence that I actually care.

As for the recent Star Wars movies, they also seem to suffer from the current doom-and-gloom trend in SF-series and movies which might be a reason why they are not as popular and loved as the good, old ones.
 
As you surely understand, I've had this debate on several occasions on several forums all since the day I unfortunately watched that horrible excuse for a Star Trek episode.

Due to those experiences, I must state that of all the people I've debated this issue with, 95% like the episode because they hate the character and/or the actress or strongly dislike the character and the actress and were happy to see her go.

The 5% who like the episode for other reasons have mostly stated the amazing explosions and such things as a reason for liking the episode and in a few occasions they have actually liked character destruction which might be the result of the ongoing doom-and-gloom trend in TV-series and movies.

Catarina said:


Ah, don't worry, I don't have the powers that Kes showed up in "Cold Fire".
Not to mention that I'm actually a very nice and friendly person. Ask Sophie74656!
She and I have a lot of heated debates but in some strange way we do get along. :)

But I must admit that I do find it hard to understand why anyone can have the slightest appreciation for that piece of garbage which that episode is.

I must also admit that despite the fact that I'm a more easy-going and sympathetic person overall in thiese days than I was about 10-15 years ago, the memories of that episode and the metions of it still brings back the worst sides of my personality.

Rahul said:



Ridiculous? I don't see what's ridiculous in my comment. Strongly disliking unnecessary and insulting character destruction isn't ridiculous. I see it as evidence that I actually care.

As for the recent Star Wars movies, they also seem to suffer from the current doom-and-gloom trend in SF-series and movies which might be a reason why they are not as popular and loved as the good, old ones.
Nobody is asking you to like the episode. All I'm saying is that you don't have to jump down the throat of anyone who doesnt share your feelings about it.
 
Q2. Really don't like that episode. Q devolved from an omnipotent, omniscient, capricious being with a vaguely onimous aura around him into an incompetent father who has to run for advice to 'mummy' Janeway. (not all of that is this episode's fault but this was the end of the line). Even most of the "comedy" in the episode feels tired.

So, what do I like about it? Some small things. I suppose the scene where Neelix' vocal chords were removed since he talked too much according to Q2 (not a Neelix hater, simply liked to see him get his comeuppance so promptly - no permanent damage was done as he was restored). The replicator that says 'make it yourself' when Janeway asks for her 1142th cup of coffee of the day. The warp core room dressed up as a dance club.
 
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"NON SEQUITUR" - Not a bad episode for me, per se, but it did seem to drag. Bright spot of the episode is seeing alternate timeline Paris get himself killed to save Kim. Always loved their friendship... a cornerstone of the series for me.
 
Q2. Really don't like that episode. Q devolved from an omnipotent, omniscient, capricious being with a vaguely onimous aura around him into an incompetent father who has to run for advice to 'mummy' Janeway. (not all of that is this episode's fault but this was the end of the line). Even most of the "comedy" in the episode feels tired.

So, what do I like about it? Some small things. I suppose the scene where Neelix' vocal chords were removed since he talked too much according to Q2 (not a Neelix hater, simply liked to see him get his comeuppance so promptly - no permanent damage was done as he was restored). The replicator that says 'make it yourself' when Janeway asks for her 1142th cup of coffee of the day. The warp core room dressed up as a dance club.
I haven't watched this episode but I can agree with your description of what you think is bad.

The Q are an omnipotent race who can do almost anything so why do Q have to turn to janeway as babysitter. It would be like some parent leaving a kid alone with the family's hamster as babysitter. No offense to Janeway here but the Q are supposed to be so much more and have so much more knowledge and power than humans.

Q wasn't that impressive or even funny in Voyager as he was in TNG but all episodes with Q have their funny spots and personally I enjoy them.

Which is a reason why Q plays a very important part in one of my own stories. :techman:
 
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