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Spoilers The Flash - Season 3

I'm not sure if it's such a good idea for Cisco to flirt with Gypsy. I mean, she has the same powers he does, and they seem to be about the same ethnicity. What if she's actually his sex-swapped doppelganger?

So what? I could see it being creepy when the doppelganger looks exactly like you. That would be like being in a relationship with your clone. But that's not the case here. Even if they are each other's doppelganger, they look nothing like each other. It's just a man and a woman who are attracted to each other.
 
One, this fight should have happened during the day...

Oh, because of the 24-hour deadline. Oops!

and two, if it's a fight to the death, how come no one dies, or at least fake died like Amok Time or Code of honor.

It was your standard "fight to the death" story where the hero has the opponent at his mercy and refuses to kill them. We've seen it a million times, including Kirk and the Gorn in "Arena" (and recently in Guillermo del Toro's Trollhunters animated series on Netflix). Cisco was just a bit more informal about it. "Around here, we don't roll that way."



The whole "combat to the death challenge" was rather a silly notion for a futuristic transdimensional cop of sorts.

As current events in the US demonstrate, cultures can regress in their values. Earth-19 had suffered a brutal interdimensional invasion and adopted draconian measures to restrict further ID travel, probably for fear of attracting the attention of more invaders. Maybe the trial-by-combat rule is some legacy of their time under the invaders' occupation. Or perhaps, as is often the case in real life, being occupied by an invading culture caused them to re-embrace some older traditions that were distinctly theirs, playing them up as symbols of their cultural identity even though they'd largely fallen by the wayside before the occupation.


She should have been named Vibette as she was nothing like Gypsy.

And Cisco is very little like the original Vibe. Both of the original "Justice League Detroit" characters were blatant ethnic stereotypes -- Gypsy was a stereotyped Roma whose illusion powers were based on the stereotype of "Gypsies" as thieves and frauds (even her name is an ethnic slur), and Vibe was a caricatured Puerto Rican break-dancer with a heavy accent. The show took its own direction with Cisco, so why shouldn't they do so with Gypsy? Not to mention all the other Berlantiverse characters who are quite different from their comics counterparts, like Felicity, Caitlin, Jax, Guardian, etc.


I didn't care for the Iris-Wally team-up, which felt contrived. It was irrational for her to be so reckless so she could write a good article for her newspaper.

Two words: "Lois" and "Lane."


So what? I could see it being creepy when the doppelganger looks exactly like you. That would be like being in a relationship with your clone. But that's not the case here. Even if they are each other's doppelganger, they look nothing like each other. It's just a man and a woman who are attracted to each other.

A biological sister and brother don't look exactly alike, but that doesn't make it okay. Incest taboos have never been about appearance, but about biological relationship. A parallel-world doppelganger could be considered a twin sibling. At the least, a relationship with one's own alternate self could be seen as narcissistic.
 
A biological sister and brother don't look exactly alike, but that doesn't make it okay. Incest taboos have never been about appearance, but about biological relationship. A parallel-world doppelganger could be considered a twin sibling. At the least, a relationship with one's own alternate self could be seen as narcissistic.

But biological siblings share common genetic roots. There is no biological relationship between multi-universe doppelgangers.
 
But biological siblings share common genetic roots. There is no biological relationship between multi-universe doppelgangers.

Yes, there is, because they're literally the same person. Different timelines are different quantum states of the same physical entity, like Schroedinger's Cat being both alive and dead. Your alternate-timeline doppelganger is not just some unrelated person who looks like you -- they're you with a different life history. Their genes are exactly the same as yours -- as we saw last week, when Felicity's DNA test confirmed that Black Siren was genetically identical to Earth-1 Laurel.

And I know I've seen fictional franchises in which alternate-timeline doppelgangers have thought of each other as siblings, though that idea hasn't been explored here so far.
 
If Gypsy was Cisco's doppelgänger it would mean her parents are doppelgängers of his own as well. That would certainly appear to be incest if they got involved.

I have no problem with them changing Gyspy from the comics. A way they could abandon the stereotype history of the name, is to reveal it's not a code name but her actual first name. It can not be too common but I know Lois Lane actress Phyliss Coates birth name was Gypsie Stell.
 
Two words: "Lois" and "Lane."
.

Two different characters with different motivations. Lois is an inherently bold character to begin with, but Iris usually plays it safe. Because she thinks she might die in a few months, Iris does the irrational by risking her own life so she could write a juicy article and leave her mark in the world. I figured the writers had to come up with something for the West siblings to do during the course of the episode. That said, I feel I haven't seen much of Caitlyn. I'd like to see the relationship dynamic between her and new member Malfoy.
 
Two different characters with different motivations. Lois is an inherently bold character to begin with, but Iris usually plays it safe.

And maybe she's realized that's what's been holding her back as a reporter. Knowing that she may have only a few months left has focused her, made her determined to leave her mark. That's the sort of thing that can change a person's approach to life even without time travel being involved. I don't see that as contrived; it's a perfectly logical way for a character to respond to the recognition of their mortality.


I figured the writers had to come up with something for the West siblings to do during the course of the episode.

But it's not out of nowhere, though. As Iris reminded Wally, in "Flashpoint" at the start of the season, their alternate selves were a crimefighting duo. The seed was planted at the start of the season, and it's been referred to once or twice since then. So this is simply picking up on a character thread that's already been laid down.


That said, I feel I haven't seen much of Caitlyn. I'd like to see the relationship dynamic between her and new member Malfoy.

We got that last week when she recruited him. I'm sure we'll get it again later on. But all the characters need to be served, and since Iris is the one who learned of the threat to her life last week, it's only logical to make her reaction to that the focus of this week's episode.
 
It was your standard "fight to the death" story where the hero has the opponent at his mercy and refuses to kill them. We've seen it a million times, including Kirk and the Gorn in "Arena" (and recently in Guillermo del Toro's Trollhunters animated series on Netflix). Cisco was just a bit more informal about it. "Around here, we don't roll that way."

That makes sense. It's just there was such an abrupt ending to that scene I got a little confused. :lol:
 
Oh, because of the 24-hour deadline. Oops!
It was your standard "fight to the death" story where the hero has the opponent at his mercy and refuses to kill them. We've seen it a million times, including Kirk and the Gorn in "Arena" (and recently in Guillermo del Toro's Trollhunters animated series on Netflix). Cisco was just a bit more informal about it. "Around here, we don't roll that way."

It was, but it was unfortunately very poorly resolved. She basically beat up on him the entire time, then he got in one shot and she just rolled over for no apparent reason. It just wasn't very believable that she was actually beaten at that point.

And maybe she's realized that's what's been holding her back as a reporter. Knowing that she may have only a few months left has focused her, made her determined to leave her mark. That's the sort of thing that can change a person's approach to life even without time travel being involved. I don't see that as contrived; it's a perfectly logical way for a character to respond to the recognition of their mortality.

I get where she's coming from in wanting to accomplish something big, but the choices she made to do so weren't exactly great. To start with, she's talking about 'making a difference', yet she's obsessing about a story about an arms dealer who is already the target of a major investigation. What difference is she supposed to be making here? She's not blowing the lid off something no-one knows about. She's not providing the evidence to put him away (because the police are already on that themselves). It's certainly not the kind of story that's going to have some huge cultural impact. It's just a standard crime profile.

Secondly, she's deliberately risking her own life to do it on the concept that she can't die before her time, but she's already seen proof that the future can be changed, so that's outright insane.

Third, she's not only risking her life, but her relationships, too. She not only lied to Barry's face and manipulated Wally into helping her, she actively sent Wally away under false pretences for no reason. If it was all about getting the story, there should've been no reason whatsoever not to go in with Wally to watch her back.

Overall, it comes across as less 'fearless reporter' and more 'kamikaze'.
 
I find it perfectly believable. I'm just saying I don't buy the idea that she's perfectly fine and she's just trying to take risks to be a better reporter.

1. Voyager Extreme Risk. B'Elanna can't feel alive any more because she should be dead. No safties on the Holodeck.

2. Hitchhikers Guide. Arthur sees his own (future) death because of Time travel, and then really-really stops being careful, so that TIME itself seems to Rube Goldberg reverse-Final Destination reality to keep the ####er alive.
 
It was, but it was unfortunately very poorly resolved. She basically beat up on him the entire time, then he got in one shot and she just rolled over for no apparent reason. It just wasn't very believable that she was actually beaten at that point.

The fact that she didn't immediately get back up again indicates to me that she was weakened enough that he could've finished her off easily if he'd wanted to. Maybe that counts as a defeat under Earth-19 rules. Or maybe her heart wasn't in the fight anyway.


I find it perfectly believable. I'm just saying I don't buy the idea that she's perfectly fine and she's just trying to take risks to be a better reporter.

I don't think anyone's saying she's "perfectly fine." Obviously she's reacting irrationally to her looming mortality. But I'm saying that doesn't have to be the only reason. Human behavior is not a menu where you're only allowed to pick a motivation from one column. We're complicated entities. Her desire to leave her mark as a journalist can be a genuine motivation even if there are other factors coloring it. Her behavior suggests that her fear of inadequacy as a reporter has been in the back of her mind all along, and this threat to her life focused it and prompted her to finally do something about it. Just because the thing she chose to do was reckless, that doesn't mean her concerns about her career aren't legitimate and aren't worth continuing to act on in a more sensible way.
 
They should have had Cat in the quick cameo just to set off everyone. "Wha??? They wasted an appearance on this?"

We've seen "boob armor" before but the "boob jacket" is a rarer variant.
 
Super fun episode this week with some great comedy, even with the weird continuity WTFs. (Barry and Wally save the cheerleaders at night, and head back to the Labs... in full daylight?!)

It's been a while since I've shared some AV Clubbers' comments...

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This one was pretty good.
We got some good stuff for Cisco and Wells.
It was nice to get to learn a bit more about Earth 19. I'm still hoping we can get a chance to see it some day. Even if HR can't go home, they did set up a return from Gypsy, so maybe she'll need Team Flash's help with something back home. I wonder what the laws are for people coming to their Earth from other dimensions? They could always have them hiding their origins as a big part of a potential story set there. Or they could always just do some HR or Gypsy flashbacks.
I'm glad Julian is still a bit of an asshole even when he is trying to help.
Wally and Iris teaming up was pretty fun.
I liked Gypsy and look forward to seeing her again.
 
So Barry figures out he doesn't have to do it alone. I am hoping the other members of Team Flash have their part. Cisco can learn that speed force drain that Gypsy used on Wally, and maybe the weapon H.R. has on the roof is the vortex manipulator weapon he was writing about. Team Flash could help him construct one.

Maybe by the season finale we will learn a way everyone in team Flash can contribute to Savitar's defeat.
 
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