Sounds about right, yotsuya. I imagine making a Miranda style little sister using the Excelsior's saucer and nacelles.
The Excelsior - uncovering the design
- Thread starter yotsuya
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The only thing I'll say on the Centaur is that even Adam Buckner has become a bit more Schrödingerian about the ship, both sticking with the scale he intended and accepting that it works better scaled to the saucer. He also said that, regardless of the extra greebling he added, when it was filmed and composited for the episode, the VFX people roughly scaled it based on its saucer. For those saying it was shown in the episode as a tiny ship, I think you may be underestimating the intended size of the battle-bug -- or else misconstruing the visual size difference between the two in the finished episode. Some is gone now, lost to site revisions, but here's a timeline:
• Alexander Richardson (after you follow the link to the specific post, you should check out his other stuff -- I personally have his eight-deck Defiant MSD) did a pretty well-researched MSD for a custom Centaur-type ship (he tries to avoid using canon names unless for specific projects). Adam ran across it and commented.
• At Adam's request, Alexander did an MSD of the ship as the Centaur for Adam to have as his computer wallpaper, and he later wrote a blog entry about it. This was posted on the last page, but I'm including it here for temporal context. He has redone his site and it's harder to navigate now than it used to be.
Both of those have the ship scaled to the Excelsior components (note: going by the Excelsior's official size, rather than anything derived by folks like @yotsuya). Alexander has run into scaling issues all over the place and often does section views using multiple interpretations to see -- as with him doing an accurate four-deck Defiant through the centerline rather than the side profile, then an eight-deck version of same to match the turbolift diagram and ventral shuttlebay. He ran into the scaling problems with the Grissom and Daedalus and resolved them to his satisfaction. Given the minds in this thread, y'all might enjoy it. And speaking of...
• Some time later, an actual proper attempt was made over on the RPF to identify all the bits to re-create the Buckner model. As with the MSD, Adam ran across it (in the thread, he's "Little Angel") and provided some invaluable assistance. I linked to page 2 of the thread, where Adam's contributions start, but I recommend reading the whole thing if interested.
As I am working on ways for the TOS Enterprise to be both the official 947' and a "corrected" 15% upscale to fit the interiors, I think both interpretations of the Centaur can coexist -- especially since they do in the creator's head these days.
• Alexander Richardson (after you follow the link to the specific post, you should check out his other stuff -- I personally have his eight-deck Defiant MSD) did a pretty well-researched MSD for a custom Centaur-type ship (he tries to avoid using canon names unless for specific projects). Adam ran across it and commented.
• At Adam's request, Alexander did an MSD of the ship as the Centaur for Adam to have as his computer wallpaper, and he later wrote a blog entry about it. This was posted on the last page, but I'm including it here for temporal context. He has redone his site and it's harder to navigate now than it used to be.
Both of those have the ship scaled to the Excelsior components (note: going by the Excelsior's official size, rather than anything derived by folks like @yotsuya). Alexander has run into scaling issues all over the place and often does section views using multiple interpretations to see -- as with him doing an accurate four-deck Defiant through the centerline rather than the side profile, then an eight-deck version of same to match the turbolift diagram and ventral shuttlebay. He ran into the scaling problems with the Grissom and Daedalus and resolved them to his satisfaction. Given the minds in this thread, y'all might enjoy it. And speaking of...
• Some time later, an actual proper attempt was made over on the RPF to identify all the bits to re-create the Buckner model. As with the MSD, Adam ran across it (in the thread, he's "Little Angel") and provided some invaluable assistance. I linked to page 2 of the thread, where Adam's contributions start, but I recommend reading the whole thing if interested.
As I am working on ways for the TOS Enterprise to be both the official 947' and a "corrected" 15% upscale to fit the interiors, I think both interpretations of the Centaur can coexist -- especially since they do in the creator's head these days.
I’m planning the same. 
https://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/6x01/atimetostand_510.jpg
The Jem'Hadar fighter is 68 meters in official publications, but it's probably larger than that - at least 100 meters. Ex-Astris-Scientia lists the Centaur at 210 meters, presumably by scaling it to the Reliant parts. It sure isn't scaled to the Excelsior in that screencap.
I’m planning the same.
The most annoying thing I ran across is that several of the models needed only used one small part for the Centaur. Luckily the models can still be constructed if so desired, even without the parts missing (i.e. you can build the jet, but it won't have landing gear
)
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RichT
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Obligatory "Deep Space 9 was really bad at maintaining a consistent scale across even hero ships (and stations) so I'm not entirely beholden to the apparent size of a one-off ship as the gospel truth" comment. Especially when the ship uses components that already have a well-established scale elsewhere. Unless we're also supposed to take it as canon that the Defiant could grow and shrink at will and had a shapeshifting nose.
There’s a difference. The Centaur was only used one time, in a scene where it was intentionally supposed to be around a similar size to the ship it was attacking, surface detail notwithstanding. If they showed the ship again later and it looked to be as big as the Excelsiors, that’s another matter. But we never saw it again. So we only have that one scene as metric for the ship’s scale.
You keep saying it was only used once, but I see that it appeared in 3 episodes. I've been intending to watch them to see how it appeared, but haven't had a chance yet. And from Buckner's own comments, it had already appeared before he added more greebles to better set the scale he had in mind for the appearance you reference for scale.
The first time we see the ship is when it attacked the Jem’Hadar fighter. If Buckner thinks that it was shown before this, he is misremembering. That’s also the only time the ship was referenced by name. Any other later shot of the model was as a random ship in the far background where you cannot get a sense of scale for it.
It was one of the adaptive technologies against the Borg. The Defiant crew were sworn to secrecy.
Shown really isn't the question. What order were the FX shots filmed in? You know that they rarely did episodes and FX shots in order. So the other appearances may have been filmed first and used later.
And having just watched all the shots, you cannot positively say how they scaled the Centaur in every shot. In most shots it is behind the fighter and could be any scale. Also, in the later appearances, the saucer of the Reliant and Excelsior classes are not shown in the correct scale. It is hard to see which is larger. So it is definitely hard to see what scale any other ship is. But two of the appearances (same shot in two different composites) put the Centaur class behind the station (a reuse of the Spacedock office complex/Regula 1 model) and the Excelsior and Reliant classes in the shot that make it hard to scale it. But taking the other shots where they have consistently oversized the Miranda class to be as larger or larger than the Excelsior class, it is quite apparent that they weren't paying much attention to scale. You have Galaxy class, Excelsior class, Akira class, Centaur class, and the definat all on screen together and it is a mixed up mess. So it is clear to me that scale was not mattering for most FX shots and that the shots of the Centaur engaging the fighter can be mistaken for any number of scales. So the scale it seems in any given FX shot has only a slim chance of being close to in scale.
I love how the Defiant flies behind the Galaxy class and looks larger than a Miranda class ship. But when it is leaving the battle line it is tiny next to the enemy ship. They composited the shots for dramatic purpose more than accuracy. so any attempt to pull a scale in any given shot is questionable at best. At least in what I had seen before and eps 1, 4, and 6 of DS9 season 6.
I’m done debating the size of the Centaur with you. You clearly want to scale it to Excelsior proportions to jibe with your agenda and will not listen to evidence to the contrary. And that’s fine. We will not convince each other otherwise, therefore we’re done with this discussion.
You are trying to tell me the evidence is overwhelming and clear and I see that exact same information and it is anything but clear. I'm not going to take one episode's FX composite and treat it as gospel or one model builder's thoughts on their kitbashed creation as the end of the story. I'm going to treat it like I do any FX model. The DS9 episodes surrounding the appearance of the Centaur are full of mismatched models with shots that are more for dramatic purposes than accuracy so I can't take that as the lone example of accurate scaling in a series known for the opposite. And as for official publications, I think the DS9 tech manual, written by 3 members of the art department, is pretty convincing that not many, even on the DS9 crew, saw it as a smaller ship. Now that I've seen the FX shots in those 3 episodes, I am convinced that the Centaur should be 381 meters long - scaled to the Excelsior saucer. We aren't really debating as the closest I've gotten to considering the smaller size was to watch and contemplate if those shots really indicated a smaller scale, and in light of how loose they were with scale, it does not. So we are really just bantering for our fellow forum readers. But even if everyone on this forum prefers the smaller scale, I would not change my mind. We aren't disagreeing on the facts, but on what those facts mean in the larger picture - in this case the indicated scale.
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RichT
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While Herman Zimmerman was involved in a supporting capacity, the DS9TM was written by Rick Sternbach working mostly from illustrations by Doug Drexler including some based on digital photos taken of the models in the VFX department, so you’re basically looking at an interpretation of an interpretation (which of course is totally different from the case when Rick Sternbach or Doug Drexler are actually designing a ship).
I was noticing that Memory Alpha mentions the third use as being in "Sacrifice of Angels" - presumably as part of Sisko's fleet. I'm interested to see where it's actually visible, as I don't recall seeing the Centaur model but that doesn't mean it's not there. With so much going on, it wouldn't be hard to miss.
It might be in the distance, barely recognizable, but I only recall it being used once.
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