The Excelsior - uncovering the design

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by yotsuya, Mar 28, 2021.

  1. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    On with the Excelsior.

    While I have nailed down the exterior of an idealized model, I have yet to fix the details inside. Not for lack of examples.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Of course the number of decks and the arrangement has a lot to do with how long the drafter thinks the ship is. Doug Drexler has an alternate to the Ent B MSD, but this one matches what we see on screen (the two side Impulse units and he has them as shuttles). And the way each of these deviate from the studio model itself.... but lots of good ideas, even including the Ingram which I posted above.
     
    publiusr and 137th Gebirg like this.
  2. RichT

    RichT Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    IIRC the saucer fairings being extra shuttlebays was the original concept for the Enterprise-B. This makes more sense to me than having extra impulse engines, given that the Excelsior class already has disproportionately big impulse engines anyway, and the extra ones exhaust straight into the ship's Bussard collectors.
     
  3. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Location:
    publiusr
    “I came up with this:”
    [​IMG]
    Now, to me, your side view of the nacelles are the best. The front of them taper in an elegant manner.

    The perfect Excelsior (not the most accurate) would be to have your nacelles combined with the bridge treatment...torpedo design and lower hanger bay of Ingram:
    [​IMG]
    —Only two torpedoes to either side though—

    With everything else as here
    [​IMG]

    The saucer would be as it is in this last...but with Ingrams bridge shrunk down a bit and directly above the lower sensor dome. The NX had the bridge back too much, and NCC-2000 had it a hair too far forward.

    I would like to see such a combination drawn, since it would have commonality with the refit bits, have sleeker nacelles and have a real shuttle bay you can fit something in. I would have the very back sharp tip of the secondary hull be a lounge with windows—with that Ingram middle shuttlebay underneath them.

    There is some dead area in the rear of the Excelsior’s neck that I can see having a Sarek dockport craft (minus its sled) from TMP.

    I think this combination would have the look of a working ship, with parts that make sense...
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021 at 6:43 AM
  4. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    Neither one makes any sense. But in looking at possible uses, only impulse engines make any sense. Number one, that is how they were lit. Number two you risk a shuttle crashing into the nacelles. Where an impulse engine could be seen as a warp booster. At least that is how I am looking at them. And my understanding is they were added because someone thought the existing impulse engines looked too small.
     
  5. Mres_was_framed!

    Mres_was_framed! Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2018
    Overall, this is post is an enjoyable look into Star Trek's technology. I do want to bring up a few points:

    As far as the external appearance of the warp core this makes sense. However, something pretty important about the warp core must have been designed by Leah Brahms, according to "Booby Trap." It cannot be the nacelles she designed, assuming NCC numbers are sequential, since ships older than the Galaxy have the same nacelles. Of course, the nacelles could have been changed in refit and the NCC numbers may not be exactly sequential as I have said elsewhere. But her dialogue says "this engine," so it is probably talking about the warp core.

    I think there is some technical name given in Voyager to its warp core type that may help explain this one, but I can't recall the term.

    I have supposed that this "bulge" was there to imply the nacelles (or engine assembly for that matter) could be jettisoned, or changed as the technology was developed, even quicker, since the ship was supposed to be experimental. I'm not sure why such a feature would be retained on duty versions of the ship.
     
  6. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    A great many things have gone into production that were intended as temporary, so this is no big surprise. If you that is how you want to take the design.

    In reality if the Excelsior were a failure, we would never have seen it again. But because it was a fully functional model that the TNG and movie production could make cheap use of, it became one of the most common ships in Starfleet for a century. So my take, unlike others, is that the Transwarp program was not a complete failure. It did not reach the hoped for speeds, but it started a revolution in warp technology that led to the new warp speed designations (with Warp 10 as infinity instead of 1000c).

    I would say that there is basic warp technology and the deeper individual warp drive setups. There are changes to make in the magnetic containment, the flow, the mix, tuning each component, smaller components that can be swapped out, quality of dilithium crystals, and I'm sure there are more. So you can have ships that have systems that look identical, but are far from it when you get into the details of the system.
     
  7. RichT

    RichT Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    Possibly, but as nacelles are by definition large outboard modules anyway that we know can be independently swapped out that seems like an unnecessary complication.
     
  8. RichT

    RichT Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    Oh, certainly that's what they were on screen. I meant that when the Enterprise-B was at the concept art stage the saucer extensions were originally intended to be shuttlebays before it was decided on them being impulse engines.

    Either way, the impulse engines are the additions to the Enterprise-B that I dislike the most. I'm okay with the additional deflector dish housing, though I prefer the smooth uninterrupted curve of the original Excelsior's secondary hull and larger deflector. Less is more, as the saying goes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021 at 10:22 PM
  9. yotsuya

    yotsuya Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2008
    I think certain FX team members may have taken them to be hangers, but John Eaves, who did the design changes, is on record saying they were impulse engines. Bill George lit them like impulse engines. That is one of many discrepancies between the model and the MSD we see on screen. Fortunately only the Impulse is seen on screen which makes that canon. And that location just makes no sense for hangers. When it comes down to it, if the person who designed the ship doesn't do the basic layout of the interior, then the drawings seen are screen are suspect.

    The movie also isn't consistent in the deck numbering. Kirk was, according to dialog, on deck 15. There are no layouts where I can get that to be deck 15. It is more like deck 20, or Deck T in the TMP nomenclature. But if you take a look at the MSD, it is deck 27. Also, the main deflector is above the catalina wings instead of level with them, there is no lower hanger, quite a number of features are misplaced from where they are on the model, it has extra phasers, it has the Excelsior fins on the impulse deck that the model was lacking (Bill George took them off the original intending to reuse them, but John Eaves didn't want them on there so they didn't use them), the warp pylon mounting dome is off center (it is supposed to be centered), the supposed P/S hangers have elevators that go to a lower deck that would be outside the ship, the weapons that are on the model's secondary hull are missing, the dorsal phasers and RCS are in the wrong places. Generations would have been the ideal place for the model and graphic artists to get together so things lined up, but instead the graphic artists went with the flawed drawings they had. Not all that unusual as this type of error goes back to TOS and those flawed pressure hull drawings and the Phase II design using in TMP. So it is just kind of a normal thing, but it means the graphics are inaccurate and can't used for determining size. The only accurate drawings would be the Galaxy, Sovereign, and Intrepid classes as for those the model and the MSD were both done to design by the same designers. For the other designs, the model is at least consistent in most respects.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2021 at 12:39 AM
  10. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Location:
    publiusr
    I think of the bulge as the warp equivalent of the opposed piston engine...like the 1914 Simpson. I see each lobe as having hydrogen and anti hydrogen moving fowards and back...and the fierce reactions exhausting out port and starboard. The link in the nacelle supports sets the plasma in a vortex which expands into the dead area of the nacelles...........or not.

    At any rate, fuel and warp core both can be blown off. I see engineering under the bulge...an inverse bridge. A torus of inward facing consoles in a circle beneath the plus sign configuration above...blinding light over their heads. This is a fresh and new approach.