The episode "Defiant"

[Infern0]

You know when Thomas Riker turned up on DS9 and impersonated William Riker, I thought it was a little odd how a High ranking officer came aboard and spent a night on the station and it wasnt checked tat he was actually who he said he is, especially when he is known to have a dodgy clone version of himself.

If you were Sisko would you have done a check on Riker to make sure it was all legit?

 

[flemm]

If you were Sisko would you have done a check on Riker to make sure it was all legit?

As I recall, Riker doesn't ask Sisko for any special access or sensitive information, so I don't think there's much reason for him to do any checking. Riker is basically just one of many Starfleet officiers that come through the station from time to time. Also, Sisko would really have no reason to know about the clone off the top of his head.

To the extent there is a blunder in the episode, it is Kira unlocking the command systems of the Defiant in a much too casual manner. Granted, she is not Starfleet, has no reason not to trust Riker, and certainly doesn't know about the clone, but the scene where Riker gets control of the ship isn't convincing at all.

Kira is pretty shrewd, pretty careful when it comes to anything that might endanger Bajor, and not automatically trusting of anyone wearing a Starfleet uniform. So when some random guy she has just met asks for access to the bridge control panels of the station's new warship, I don't really believe for a second that her answer would be: "Yeah, sure, here you go!" Whatever. A bit of plot-induced stupidity, basically, in what is a pretty mediocre episode overall imo.

I don't really see that Sisko was at fault, though. He's not going to check up on every Starfleet officer who happens to come by the station to hang out at Quark's.

 

[DonIago]

I thought it was a rather decent episode, with, in retrospect, some rather good foreshadowing.

Regarding Tom's ease of access to the Defiant, the fault would seem to lie primarily with Kira for granting him access to the command systems, and secondarily with Starfleet for not updating their security protocols to account for Tom's existence. Surely Picard and crew filed a report on Tom's existence. If something wasn't done then, you'd think they'd have at least made changes once it was learned that Tom was associating with the Maquis.

Or maybe those changes were due to be installed next Tuesday...

 

[Jono]

There are thousands of Starfleet officers so I'd question how well known it was that Riker had a transporter clone going around, which was pointed out above. The only person around who would know would be O'brien and Riker did his best to avoid spending time with him.

Also it is more of Odo's job to be the customs and immigration guy of the station. He isn't going to personally inspect each visitor that comes to the station. He would probably do something similar to what is done today. I'm not sure what we've seen in terms of immigration/custom control on DS9. Maybe all ships send a passenger and crew manifest to the station before docking, Odo runs the names through the computer to see if they match any on whatever watch lists he keeps. I'm not even sure if they do visual checks to match faces with names. Was Tom Riker a known Maquis at that time? If he was then really Riker's name (both) should have been flagged, Tom's because he was a criminal and Will's because Tom and Will are basically the same person.

 

[Danny99]

I'm not sure what they could have done to stop Tom when he was a copy of the original Will done to the last strand of DNA.

 

[FormerLurker]

It's been a long time since I saw the episode, but wasn't Tom not revealed to be working with the Maquis(as far as Starfleet knew, at least) until after he stole the Defiant? I mean, as far as they knew, he was just AWOL until then, wasn't he?

 

[DonIago]

I thought it was in his file that he'd associated with (not necessarily worked with) the Maquis, but I may be recalling incorrectly.

 

[Timo]

From "Defiant":

Sisko: "We have reason to believe that Thomas Riker is a member of the Maquis."
Dukat: "What?"
Odo: "Thomas Riker was serving aboard the starship Gandhi. While he was there, he began to express certain political opinions. Opinions that supported the Maquis and their goals."

It does sound that our heroes or Starfleet only began to investigate after Tom hijacked the ship, and found out about these seemingly innocuous opinions which suddenly began to look much less innocuous.

In any case, Odo has never been particularly successful in keeping Maquis operatives off the station. There don't seem to exist comprehensive files on who might or might not be a Maquis - or then Odo is overwhelmed by the sheer number of people coming from the general direction of the DMZ and having potential Maquis connections, and thus doesn't pursue that sort of investigation on the arrivals. Only known criminals would be identified, and only seriously suspected ones would be tagged and monitored. Neither Tom Riker nor people like Ray Boone would fall in those categories.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

I always wondered what happened to Tom Riker. The Cardassians captured him, right? He was probably wiped out with the rest of the Maquis when Cardassia joined the Dominion, I imagine. I wonder how Will Riker would feel about that.

I can't really blame Kira for the command codes to the Defiant thing b/c she had no reason not to trust him.

 

[Cyke101]

I always wondered what happened to Tom Riker. The Cardassians captured him, right? He was probably wiped out with the rest of the Maquis when Cardassia joined the Dominion, I imagine. I wonder how Will Riker would feel about that.

I can't really blame Kira for the command codes to the Defiant thing b/c she had no reason not to trust him.

And, let's face it, he turned on the Riker Charm. No woman can escape that smile, even Klingons and Androids.

 

[Praxius]

You know when Thomas Riker turned up on DS9 and impersonated William Riker, I thought it was a little odd how a High ranking officer came aboard and spent a night on the station and it wasnt checked tat he was actually who he said he is, especially when he is known to have a dodgy clone version of himself.

If you were Sisko would you have done a check on Riker to make sure it was all legit?

What justification or reason would you have to do such a thing before anything occurred?

Thomas Riker at that time, had done nothing wrong really and wasn't any sort of threat until after he took the Defiant, and Will Riker was a Commander/1st officer of the flag ship who also ventured onto DS9 from time to time in the past..... there was no logical need to do a background check, and since typical DNA, finger print, retinal checks wouldn't pick up any difference between the two of them, it would have been pretty difficult to determine the difference between the two besides their memories.

One thing I never got about people's views of Tom and Will, was that most people consider Tom as a copy or duplicate of Will.

Did it ever occur to anybody that Will is an equal copy to Tom and the only thing that ever separated the two from being 100% exactly identical to one another was that Will was the copy that made it back and Tom was the copy that didn't?

Both of their personal experiences, regardless of being on the Enterprise or on the planet alone for however many years, are equally valid experiences and memories for the identity we know as William T. Riker. My assumption is that since most viewers went through the various seasons of the Riker that made it back and became familiar with his life, somehow validates him being more Will Riker then the Will Riker that never made it back and we never followed along with.

 

[DevilEyes]

You know when Thomas Riker turned up on DS9 and impersonated William Riker, I thought it was a little odd how a High ranking officer came aboard and spent a night on the station and it wasnt checked tat he was actually who he said he is, especially when he is known to have a dodgy clone version of himself.

If you were Sisko would you have done a check on Riker to make sure it was all legit?

What justification or reason would you have to do such a thing before anything occurred?

Thomas Riker at that time, had done nothing wrong really and wasn't any sort of threat until after he took the Defiant, and Will Riker was a Commander/1st officer of the flag ship who also ventured onto DS9 from time to time in the past..... there was no logical need to do a background check, and since typical DNA, finger print, retinal checks wouldn't pick up any difference between the two of them, it would have been pretty difficult to determine the difference between the two besides their memories.

Exactly. How were they going to check if he was really Will Riker, the first officer of Enterprise? The only way would be to contact Enterprise and ask Picard if his first officer really was supposed to be on DS9... Doesn't seem like something you'd do without a good reason. Imagine if you were Picard and you were being contacted by Sisko or someone else from DS9 every time someone from your ship went to DS9, to ask you if you had really granted them leave... I bet you'd be annoyed.

And, at that point, Tom Riker was just a Starfleet officer, not a Maquis terrorist. He was known to have expressed sympathy for the Maquis (as I bet many Starfleet members did), but that wouldn't have been reason enough to suspect him until he stole the Defiant.

One thing I never got about people's views of Tom and Will, was that most people consider Tom as a copy or duplicate of Will.

Did it ever occur to anybody that Will is an equal copy to Tom and the only thing that ever separated the two from being 100% exactly identical to one another was that Will was the copy that made it back and Tom was the copy that didn't?

Both of their personal experiences, regardless of being on the Enterprise or on the planet alone for however many years, are equally valid experiences and memories for the identity we know as William T. Riker. My assumption is that since most viewers went through the various seasons of the Riker that made it back and became familiar with his life, somehow validates him being more Will Riker then the Will Riker that never made it back and we never followed along with.

ITA. It bugs me whenever someone refers to Tom as a "copy" of Will. He is as much William T. Riker as the other Riker is. But apparently, it's not just the audience that sees the Riker from the Enterprise as superior, as the 'real' Riker - poor Tom sort of accepted an inferior position when he took the nickname "Tom" to separate himself from the other Riker, the one who had spent the previous 7 years serving in Starfleet, who had gotten promoted and and posted as XO on a flagship, distinguished himself commanding it during Wolf 359, etc. As Kira observed, his need to prove himself as well as distinguish himself from the other Riker was what lead him to his ill-advised 'terrorist' adventure.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

As Kira observed, his need to prove himself as well as distinguish himself from the other Riker was what lead him to his ill-advised 'terrorist' adventure.

Exactly. Was he really that sympathetic to the Maquis, or was he just desperate to be different from "other" Riker?

 

[FormerLurker]

Seven years alone would have had a negative effect on his sanity in any case. Who's to say his Maquis sympathies weren't the result of only having his own mind to keep him company for so long, and fundamentally altering his perception of reality?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Countdown to the next person to ask about the Tom Riker/Chief O'Brien "argument" in 5...4...3...2...

 

[InklingStar]

Along with what DevilEyes said...

While Tom languished on Nelvana, Will became first officer of the flagship. While Tom carved a picture with a phaser, Will defeated the Borg. While Tom struggled to find food, Will turned down several promotions to remain in his comfortable little chair.

When Tom rejoined society, he was nobody, a mere shadow of a greater man - himself. Seven years behind the times, he could never hope to catch up to Will's accomplishments. So he chose a different path. He gave the Maquis their greatest victory, capturing Starfleet's greatest warship. He made his name in a way Will never would.

 

[JarodRussell]

"Haven't you heard? The guy who saved us from the Borg has an identical clone, a result from a very bizarre transporter accident. It was all over the news!"

 

[indolover]

No blame can be laid down, to any party.

Sisko cannot know all goings-on in all of Starfleet. Starfleet has most likely millions of personnel, and he cannot spend time monitoring the Starfleet database, not when in Season 3 the Dominion had emerged as a major threat to the Federation. As has been said, Kira had no reason not to trust him, and Tom's DNA was identical to Will's.

In fairness, Starfleet must have a news service, as well as a grapevine as any organisation does. Joe Admiral could have incidentally made a comment that a bizarre accident occurred on the flagship no less. But even still, Sisko's main task is to command DS9, liaise with the Bajoran government, monitor the Dominion threat, and ensure that Bajor eventually joins the Federation. Events on other Captains' commands are not his direct concern.

 

[DonIago]

I do wonder whether Kira unlocking the Defiant was a breach of regulations though.