the dumb questions you were afraid to ask thread

[captcalhoun]

Alyssa said:
If vulcans supress their emotion becouse they used to be really violent and paranoid why do they supress all emotion like love and happiness instead of just the bad ones? I mean with therepy ( or in the case of vulcans meditation ) humans can supress their violent emotions or at least channel them ito possitive aspects like dedication, I would just think that with their superior minds they could aclompish the same!

obviously they watched "Equilibrium" and, like the Librians, decided that they had to sacrifice the highs of love, happiness and affection to lose the lows of greed, hatred, anger and aggression.

or maybe they never developed therapy as a career on Vulcan. maybe it's a strictly human thing that we introduce to other species...

 

[steveman]

So, the Dominion declares war on the Federation... but all we ever see are the good people of Starfleet getting their hands dirty.

Obviously, DS9 only shows us the Starfleet side of things because that's who our heroes play for. The real world reason is obvious. But still, in-universe... were Federation members such as the Andorians, Vulcans, or Tellarites involved in the war effort at all? Or does Starfleet serve not only as Earth's defensive force (when the situation so calls for it) but also as the defensive force for the entire Federation?

Because, honestly, I find it hard to believe that such founding worlds as the aforementioned would let their fleets go by the wayside simply because Starfleet is there to defend them; I would think they'd have their own fleets in addition to Starfleet's. Theoretically, no one should be able to match-up against the Federation. Too much man-power, right?


OK. Did someone get the question(s) in all of that?

I guess it just always annoyed me that Starfleet did so much of the heavy lifting. Really made the rest of the UFP members look like lazy-asses.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

steveman said:were Federation members such as the Andorians, Vulcans, or Tellarites involved in the war effort at all? Or does Starfleet serve not only as Earth's defensive force (when the situation so calls for it) but also as the defensive force for the entire Federation?

Starfleet serves the whole Federation. That's been true ever since there *was* a Federation. So in a war between the Federation and the Dominion, Starfleet would obviously play a major role, since it is the military force for the entire UFP.

Because, honestly, I find it hard to believe that such founding worlds as the aforementioned would let their fleets go by the wayside simply because Starfleet is there to defend them; I would think they'd have their own fleets in addition to Starfleet's. Theoretically, no one should be able to match-up against the Federation. Too much man-power, right?

It was established in an episode of DS9 that when a world joins the Federation, its native military is absorbed into Starfleet. But these worlds could conceivably keep detachments of their own fleets for purely local matters.

(The Dominion War is hardly local, though. It affects the whole Federation. So naturally the Federation's military is what's going to respond.)

 

[steveman]

Babaganoosh said:

steveman said:were Federation members such as the Andorians, Vulcans, or Tellarites involved in the war effort at all? Or does Starfleet serve not only as Earth's defensive force (when the situation so calls for it) but also as the defensive force for the entire Federation?

Starfleet serves the whole Federation. That's been true ever since there *was* a Federation. So in a war between the Federation and the Dominion, Starfleet would obviously play a major role, since it is the military force for the entire UFP.

Because, honestly, I find it hard to believe that such founding worlds as the aforementioned would let their fleets go by the wayside simply because Starfleet is there to defend them; I would think they'd have their own fleets in addition to Starfleet's. Theoretically, no one should be able to match-up against the Federation. Too much man-power, right?

It was established in an episode of DS9 that when a world joins the Federation, its native military is absorbed into Starfleet. But these worlds could conceivably keep detachments of their own fleets for purely local matters.

(The Dominion War is hardly local, though. It affects the whole Federation. So naturally the Federation's military is what's going to respond.)

Excellent. Thanks. I never knew that the native militaries of member worlds were simply absorbed into Starfleet's existing ranks.

Ultimately, I guess I viewed Starfleet as only being an extension of Earth -- and not of the greater Federation itself. Never saw the big picture. Makes sense now. I guess it just would've helped if they had thrown in a few Andorian battleships or Vulcan cruisers in some of the Dom War battle scenes. (However, for budgetary constraints, I can see why they didn't/couldn't).

Thanks again, as this is often something I've wondered about.

Always good to have a "dumb question" thread once in a while.

 

[captcalhoun]

dude, what show you been watching for the last XXX number of years that you think Starfleet = Earth's Fleet? that's only true of ENT.

it's also true of early TOS in that period where they were still nailing everyting down, but retcons now clearly say Starfleet is the UFP fleet since 2161.

 

[steveman]

captcalhoun said:
dude, what show you been watching for the last XXX number of years that you think Starfleet = Earth's Fleet? that's only true of ENT.

it's also true of early TOS in that period where they were still nailing everyting down, but retcons now clearly say Starfleet is the UFP fleet since 2161.

Not that I owe you any sort of explanation (this is a dumb questions thread, after all) but I suppose that my not realizing Starfleet was a Federation institution -- as compared to just an Earth one -- stemmed from the constant association of Starfleet Academy with Earth, plus perhaps not seeing any alien ships (ie. Vulcan, Andorian, etc) in the Federation fleet.

That's an honest mistake.

 

[JD]

steveman said:

captcalhoun said:
dude, what show you been watching for the last XXX number of years that you think Starfleet = Earth's Fleet? that's only true of ENT.

it's also true of early TOS in that period where they were still nailing everyting down, but retcons now clearly say Starfleet is the UFP fleet since 2161.

Not that I owe you any sort of explanation (this is a dumb questions thread, after all) but I suppose that my not realizing Starfleet was a Federation institution -- as compared to just an Earth one -- stemmed from the constant association of Starfleet Academy with Earth, plus perhaps not seeing any alien ships (ie. Vulcan, Andorian, etc) in the Federation fleet.

That's an honest mistake.

Maybe I'm mistaken too, but I've always been under the impression that once a planet joined the Federation pretty all of their "starfleet" joined the UFP Starfleet, and that their ships never really left home anymore.

 

[captcalhoun]

i figured once a race joins the UFP their fleet gets decommissioned and they have to serve on Starfleet's spiffy Excelsiors, Galaxies and so on.

 

[JD]

^That's a pretty good posability too. But, I'm pretty sure they have made references to ships belonging to other UFP members. Then again I guess those could be just be civi ships or something like that.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

There were Vulcan ships in the Unification episodes of TNG. So I assume UFP member worlds can keep small detachments of their own defense fleets.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

They were civilian ships, iirc

 

[Alyssa]

Because, honestly, I find it hard to believe that such founding worlds as the aforementioned would let their fleets go by the wayside simply because Starfleet is there to defend them; I would think they'd have their own fleets in addition to Starfleet's. Theoretically, no one should be able to match-up against the Federation. Too much man-power, right?

i think that instead of joining UFP as newfound members of some sort of individual society they join as allies, share tecnology and info. but keep their own identitiy.
I mean in ST:TNG the Klingons where part of the Fed. and though some served in starfleet the ones that didn't had their own ships and culture. The Fed. always goes on about how they are open to cultures. It's like Kirk said in Fridays Child ' our highest law is that your world is your own ' it is probably the same for their culture and fleets!
Joining starfleet is probably as optional to other races as joining Harvard over Berkley. The individual joins but the state he/she came from stays the same!

 

[captcalhoun]

The Klingons were retconned as not being members of the UFP after early episodes of TNG said they were, but allies. therefore they remained a seperate political, economic and military entity. the military being the Klingon Defence Fleet.

 

[Ethros]

^ True, but the Klingons will have properly joined the Federation but the 26th Century (ENT: Azati Prime)

I like to the UFP's bravery in the Dominion War impressed the Klingons greatly, which was one of the reasons that persuaded them to eventually join.
I wonder if the Cardassians would sign up too one day, given their weak state after the war? And with Rom's reforms, maybe even the Ferengi would join too?

 

[Frodo Lives]

I'm pretty sure The Cardassians would join WAAAAY before the Klingons would.

Particularly given their post-Dominion War status. They're never going to be a great power again, they'll probably struggle to be a mediocre power and have to suck up to at the major power least likely to treat them like garbage: The Federation.

While the current generation of Cardassians would abhor the idea of joining the UFP, give 'em a couple of decades of suckling at the Fed's teat and they should be ready.

As for the Klingons, unless there's some fundamental shift in their culture I'd say the chances of them joining are quite slim. Keep in mind, Azati Prime was an alternate timeline in which the Federation fought the Sphere-builders. Since the NX-01 kicked their proverbial asses to the curb before the Federation was even formed that timeline's unlikely to eventuate. The Klingons probably only joined in that timeline in order to better fight the Sphere-builders as a united front anyway.

 

[captcalhoun]

one day, they'll all join. the Klingons, Ferengi, Cardassians, Romulans, Tzenkethi even the Breen and the Tholians. one day the UFP banner will stretch from the AQ to the far reaches of the DQ and all species will be united in peace as one.

 

[Frodo Lives]

Anyone else horrified by that prospect?

I'm not sure how to describe it, but I think it'd be like every nation on the planet becoming part of the United States of America.

Sends a shiver up my spine.

 

[JD]

captcalhoun said:
one day, they'll all join. the Klingons, Ferengi, Cardassians, Romulans, Tzenkethi even the Breen and the Tholians. one day the UFP banner will stretch from the AQ to the far reaches of the DQ and all species will be united in peace as one.

Maybe by the 26th century, and by that time the UFP would probably be expanding into the Gamma and/or Delta Quadrants, too.

Edit: Oops didn't see that last bit about the DQ.

 

[The Laughing Vulcan]

When McCoy eventually dies in the Trekverse, will he therafter be known as Boned?

 

[Red Ranger]

OK, here's my dumb question: Why don't Starfleet uniforms have pockets by the 23rd/24th centuries??