Spoilers The Doctor Falls (Grade & Discussion Thread)

[The Wormhole]

Well, it's typical Moffat, is I guess how to best summarize this one. Despite having gone most of the season without this tiresome trope, this episode brings back the dreaded Moffat Monologues. Seriously, why was this episode even an extended episode? If the monologues got removed or even trimmed down, everything could have been achieved in fifty minutes maximum. The one saving grace this time was after the Doctor delivered an impassioned to Missy and Simm Master, Simm Master rather amusingly brushes it off with "yeah, wasn't listening, out of my way."

Sadly the episode was unfocused on its storylines about the Cybermen and two Masters, as such neither was served satisfactorily. Simm and Gomez did work well together, and Simm's scenes with Capaldi were great to watch as well, but there just wasn't that much material for a him to justify the storyline.

Bill's storyline was rather meh, but Pearl Mackie's performance actually did elevate into something more worthwhile.

I'm not a fan of the whole "don't want to regenerate" thing simply because it doesn't make very much sense at all. The only alternative to regenerating is actually dying, and given the choice, is there even a choice? Regeneration might completely change who he is, but at least the Doctor will still be alive, this should be an easy enough choice to make without needing to meet up with the First Doctor and presumably help each accept the inevitable change.

I don't know about this one. I'd say I was disappointed, but that implies I had expectations. Even after what was one of Moffat's better seasons, it seems the guy still can't do a decent finale. And what's worse, this one was somewhat derivative, Bill and Heather exploring the universe together is basically Clara and Ashildr travelling in their own TARDIS in Hell Bent, and the episode more or less ends the same way as Name of the Doctor what with the cliffhanger involving a surprise cameo from a past Doctor setting up for a future special.

 

[david kelly]

Was Missy referring to the Rani I'm the barn scene ? I would love for the Rani to become the Doctor's new chief antagonist or Rassilon. I like Missy/Master's end; her finally siding with her friend felt like closure for the character. I wouldn't want that undone. Better to have another character take the Master's place as the Doctor's archenemy

 

[The Wormhole]

Was Missy referring to the Rani I'm the barn scene ? I would love for the Rani to become the Doctor's new chief antagonist or Rassilon. I like Missy/Master's end; her finally siding with her friend felt like closure for the character. I wouldn't want that undone. Better to have another character take the Master's place as the Doctor's archenemy

There will be another Master some day, I just viewed Missy's end as the end of this incarnation, nothing else.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

What if Missy is an incarnation before Simm? Before events of his time as Saxon.

Like the Doctor and River meeting in the wrong order all the time.

 

[The Wormhole]

What if Missy is an incarnation before Simm? Before events of his time as Saxon.

Then he'd remember being her rather than her remembering being him. Besides, we saw Jacobi regenerate directly into Simm.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

At times I've felt that Moffat's treated his stewardship of Doctor Who as an opportunity to win fandom fights from the 90s (say, at the Tavern or on radw). Sometimes I've even wondered where he'd fall on the rad/trad divide. (FWIW, as much as Moffat talks the rad game, in his heart he's really a trad, hence his long association with Mark Gatiss who is definitely a trad.)

He's certainly of the early '80's, JNT use-a-celebrity-if-it-means-we-can-raise-the-ratings sort of school of thought, complete with shocks and twists and callbacks to OldWho. Yeah, a trad... just not the same kind as Gatiss.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Also, is it fair to call the Christmas Special as Part 3 of the finale? It seems to be the case to me, despite not having the Master(s) present.

I ask because I'd like to know if I can do a thread about best series finales or if I should wait until Christmas.

 

[auntiehill]

Very nice episode; I really enjoyed it. Was a bit slow in parts but the end definitely left me wanting more--which is definitely a good thing.

 

[Mr Awe]

4/5. Better than last week. Enjoyable but not perfect.

Lots of good tension, action, plot, and characterization. The story really put the Doctor in an impossible situation. The clarity of the impossibility was very effective. The moments between the Bill and the Doctor were excellent. Nardole was awesome. The idea of time running fast in the lower levels allowing them to upgrade quickly made sense. It also suggests that Nardole and his refuges are really screwed. Better and better Cybermen will be continually after them. As they move further up, the time differential increases and they'll be attacked by upgraded Cybermen even more frequently.

The two Masters had moments of greatness but they were used too little. Especially Simm. I didn't like how last week Simm's presence was wasted under all the make up, in disguise. That really hit this week when he really didn't do much. Yes, a few great moments but it could've been so much more. Previously, I guessed that Missy would kill Simm but had hope to see him regenerate into her. Didn't predict him killing her too!

The ending sucked and it sucked bad. It's bad deus ex machina in its own right. Extra bad because it was very similar to Clara's get out free and live forever card to travel around time and space. Seriously, again?! Dumb as shit to do that again.

Looking forward to the Christmas special with the First Doctor!

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

Then he'd remember being her rather than her remembering being him. Besides, we saw Jacobi regenerate directly into Simm.

We did but what was before Jacobi?

 

[DarthPipes]

Great episode. Moffat finally managed to stick the landing.

The main characters all got great and strong storylines.

I particularly liked the way the scene with Bill in the barn played out and was edited.

Was spoiled weeks ago about the First Doctor but I don't care. I'd hoped that Bradley would get a chance to play the First Doctor in earnest and I'm glad that he will.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

I just finished watching this on Iview and I will have to change my vote.

This was rather brilliant.

However I have missed a lot of this season and the ending made little sense to me. Who is this Heather chick and did Bill just get turned into water? Is she Flood now?

 

[tomalak301]

I think I know what my problem has been with Doctor Who this season. I just don't care anymore to the point where I'm watching these episodes and I feel bored. Case in point tonight. I make no secret that I'm a huge fan of the series that comes on after Doctor Who, Orphan Black, and I've been excited for this final season for a good year. Well, I watched that episode first and that hour flew by to the point where I couldn't believe the episode was already over and it felt like it had just been 20 minutes. Then I watched the finale of Doctor Who and that hour and a half (with commercials) felt like a 3 hour episode. It was really hard to get into this story and that excitement that I had 4, 5 years ago is probably gone now. I get Doctor Who is a show that is always changing and evolving, but I'm watching it and I feel a sense of this show is so 10 years ago and I've moved on.

With that said, I liked this episode better than last week, but that isn't saying much because I was one of the only 2 people in this forum who gave last week's episode a disappointing score. Still, the emotional moments clicked for me, such as the stuff with Bill and the Doctor and Bill saying she doesn't want to live as a cyberman anymore. Also the moments between Missy and The Master were probably the best parts and Gomez and Simm have incredible chemistry together. I also did like the ending with Bill going with the Pilot (Thus bringing the season full circle) and seeing Bradley again (Who I forgot, but then looked him up and he played the Doctor in that amazing Doctor Who film, An Adventure in Space and Time, probably the last time I was really excited for anything Doctor Who) was great. I think because of him and Moffatt leaving, I might have a renewed sense of hope for this series that I might like it again, and we'll see how the first and 12th doctor get along in the Christmas special.

As for what I didn't like about the episode, it was pretty much everything else. The Cyberman and the villagers meant nothing to me, Nardole was not useless, but good riddance he might finally be gone, and like I said, for the most part I was bored. It also probably doesn't help that they reference things from past episodes and I don't watch past episodes so they mean nothing to me. A Mondras Cyberman? Other than the fact that they wear jackets under the armor, and the rectangle things are a little shorter, they look like the other Cyberman from the renewed series. In fact, they could have done more with the Cybermen and just made this episode a more intimate story with just Bill, the two masters, Nardole, and maybe a couple other survivors of the ship. Of course that would change the episode, but it might make it a little more closer to home rather than getting to know 10 other characters.

 

[Guy Gardener]

The episode called "Pilot" is Heather's origin.

Bill met her in a pub, they were going to shag, but Heather got stolen by aliens and converted into technogoop, that looks a lot like water.

Not the love of Bill's life, but it would seem that she is the love of Bill's afterlife.

Thing is, that Heather could have turned up at any point in the series where Bill might have died during all those close shaves where she almost died, like when that house almost ate her and turnd her into wood, or when that space suit zombie almost electrocuted her to death, or when she plugged into the Monks technology and almost had her brain quashed into a pancake.

Heather was waiting and watching.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

The episode called "Pilot" is Heather's origin.

Bill met her in a pub, they were going to shag, but Heather got stolen by aliens and converted into technogoop, that looks a lot like water.

Not the love of Bill's life, but it would seem that she is the love of Bill's afterlife.

Thing is, that Heather could have turned up at any point in the series where Bill might have died during all those close shaves where she almost died, like when that house almost ate her and turnd her into wood, or when that space suit zombie almost electrocuted her to death, or when she plugged into the Monks technology and almost had her brain quashed into a pancake.

Heather was waiting and watching.

Heather was plot aware and arrived in the finale

OK so she was nanogoop.. The effect used made me think of the Flood from that dreadful Mars episode, and that episode had one redeeming part, Tennant's performance and the Timelord Victorious speech.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

Why didn't the Doctor reprogram the Cybermen's database to convert humanoids with exactly two hearts rather than two or fewer? That way the Cybermen would leave the humans alone and just go after Time Lords.

 

[matthunter]

Why didn't the Doctor reprogram the Cybermen's database to convert humanoids with exactly two hearts rather than two or fewer? That way the Cybermen would leave the humans alone and just go after Time Lords.

Well he was doing it during the split second he was knocked against a keyboard in the conversion centre, he likely didn't have time for anything more fancy.

 

[Sparky]

Why didn't the Doctor reprogram the Cybermen's database to convert humanoids with exactly two hearts rather than two or fewer? That way the Cybermen would leave the humans alone and just go after Time Lords.

That was actually the first thing I though of after he mentioned changing a 1 to a 2. I thought that humans were now safe and I was a bit confused. But then I remembered that he only had a chance to change one thing, and that one thing changing from a 1 to a 2 could easily mean that they were now looking for anything up to two hearts, no time to change parameters that excluded one heart. (weak reasoning, but I'll take it.)

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

^I'll buy that. Changing "if count(body.hearts) <= 1 then convert(body)" to "if count(body.hearts) <= 2 then convert(body)" rather than "if count(body.hearts) == 2 then convert(body)" perhaps.

 

[Gingerbread Demon]

So if Simm Master wanted to snog Missy Master that's really what you'd call loving yourself