Someone fan-edit this to include every one of them! Although I'm sure it had less to do with OldWho snub and maybe more to do with the fact that these people kind of helped get up after he was down for so long after the Time War.
Spoilers The Doctor Falls (Grade & Discussion Thread)
- Thread starter TommyR01D
- Start date
I hope Grant Morrison was watching tonight as Moffat made "The World Shapers" canon!
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_World_Shapers_(comic_story)
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_World_Shapers_(comic_story)
I've been thinking about why Capaldi's Doctor does not want to regenerate. I think it might be because the Doctor has regenerated over a dozen times by now. It would make sense that after changing that many times, that he might start hating it. He wishes he could have some permanency in his current persona. Furthermore, the act of regeneration seems to be traumatic, not just physically but also psychologically. After all, when the Doctor regenerates, a persona that he has grown attached "dies" and a new persona emerges. Getting used to being a certain personality and then changing it like that would be a difficult psychological experience. If it happened just once or twice, it would be one thing, but now it has happened quite a bit. So, Capaldi's refusal to regenerate makes sense the more I think about it. I predict that the Christmas Special will see Capaldi's Doctor come to terms with this and accept his regeneration as a result of his encounter with the First Doctor.
And going right back, though in lines which weren't recorded due to studio pressure, the Doctor was fighting the change back in 10th Planet, preferring to die as himself, until the TARDIS forced him through it.
Suspect that will be rather relevant. Maybe Bradley will get to deliver the lines Hartnell would have delivered.
To be fair, the sonic wasn't actually a weapon, just used to activate the weaknesses in the under-floor pipelines that Nardol had set up.
The double-Master kill has still left the character very open-ended. Firstly, we know that he's escaped certain death multiple times, so Missy being "killed", especially when she seems to plan for a lot of eventualities, doesn't mean she's definitely done for. Secondly, we don't know for absolute certain that Missy is the regeneration AFTER Simm, so could easily slot another couple of Masters or Mistresses in even if we accept that Missy is in actuality his last incarnation.
I'm definitely looking forward to the Christmas special, it will be interesting to see what they've come up with.
Just because...
This was probably the best finale of the Moffat era. There were so many layers to it. I really loved the dialogue in the two episodes and the philosophical slant to it. I teared up throughout the episode due to Bill's fate. All in all, it was very dark in places. When they said this season was going to be darker than previous ones they weren't kidding around.
A bit sad about Missy, I would have liked to see more of her trying to be somewhat good. I hope there'll be another regeneration who'll do that.
A bit sad about Missy, I would have liked to see more of her trying to be somewhat good. I hope there'll be another regeneration who'll do that.
The sonic screw driver being used to explode things is almost as old as the thing itself. The Third Doctor uses it in a similar fashion in "Carnival of Monsters".
Nah, I'm glad we didn't get more. For one, it's not necessary because the dialogue provided enough information extrapolate what happened. Secondly, this was far more information than we normally get about how The Master survived, so I'm perfectly content.
Damn right! Matt Lucas was spectacular the whole season and I hate to see Nardole left doomed to his fate on the Mondasian colony ship.
Perhaps that's a direct result of The Twelfth Doctor being by far the oldest incarnation and he's gotten accustomed to it? I could be buy that (and the psychological aspect you later talk about) and that would alleviate some of the issues I talked about in my review.
Oh, that's an interesting thought. I hope you're right about Bradley delivering those lines.
"Is the future going to be all girl?
"We can only hope."
And then we get Cyber-Bill telling the Doctor to be a younger woman next time.
Add that to the rooftop conversation last week and it's either a massive act of trolling by Moffat as he's on his way out the door or...
"We can only hope."
And then we get Cyber-Bill telling the Doctor to be a younger woman next time.
Add that to the rooftop conversation last week and it's either a massive act of trolling by Moffat as he's on his way out the door or...
That was a great episode. I liked the ending with Bill (its a bit of a cheat, but much less of one then Clara, and they did set it up in the first episode fairly well). The two masters were great together, and their ending made sense (although since the Master has gotten into approximately 12,000 situations where it was impossible for him to escape complete destruction I'm sure Missy will regenerate somehow, which is good since I'm interested in seeing what will happen with The Master after this).
The ending with The Doctor was very good. His refusal to regenerate came off differently then 10's (anger instead of desperation) and seeing the first doctor was really cool. Right now I'm assuming that, based off what we hear the 1st Doctor say in the snow before we see him clearly, he is from The Tenth Planet, right before he is going to regenerate, and he's as unwilling to do it as 12 is. I'm also assuming that the Christmas special will be them having an adventure and both realizing that they need to change, and both accepting the upcoming regenerations (with the 1st Doctor going off to regenerate in his TARDIS).
either way this was a great ending to the season, the best series ending episode of 12's era (not counting Heaven Sent since it wasn't the last episode, just the set up for it) and I have a feeling that we're going to get an epic Christmas special.
The ending with The Doctor was very good. His refusal to regenerate came off differently then 10's (anger instead of desperation) and seeing the first doctor was really cool. Right now I'm assuming that, based off what we hear the 1st Doctor say in the snow before we see him clearly, he is from The Tenth Planet, right before he is going to regenerate, and he's as unwilling to do it as 12 is. I'm also assuming that the Christmas special will be them having an adventure and both realizing that they need to change, and both accepting the upcoming regenerations (with the 1st Doctor going off to regenerate in his TARDIS).
either way this was a great ending to the season, the best series ending episode of 12's era (not counting Heaven Sent since it wasn't the last episode, just the set up for it) and I have a feeling that we're going to get an epic Christmas special.
WOW I mean wow, that episode had a lot to digest...
At first I felt the episode was rushing things a bit but it soon found its rhythm and had some stellar character driven scenes over the typically flashy big epic stuff Doc Who finales can end up being. The scene in the barn with Bill & The Doctor, virtually every scene involving the Two Masters and The Doctor, Nardole, Doctor & Bill's farewell scene and The Two Masters killing each other. These were all well written and superbly acted out by what has been IMO, the strongest season in terms of pure acting ability though sadly the writing has been hit & miss overall.
I would hope this is the last we see of the Master because even if the Doctor never knows, we saw a true redemption arc where Missy decides to stand with her friend finally. I was hoping they would touch upon that Simm did save 10 and that shows the good in him/her but they didn't even mention it. The Master being the downfall of him/herself is the best ending to this character and The Master should be left alone.
I enjoyed how the pilot returned to save Bill and The Doctor, it was nice to bring the season back full circle and gives us the possibility of seeing Bill again. Pearl Mackie has been a delight this year and I've loved the onscreen chemistry she shared with Matt Lucas & Peter Capaldi. I was struggling to decide if the grade should be Good or Excellent but the final few minutes and the final scene, which had me shouting OH MY GOD, soon as I recognised the voice in the blizzard and another OH MY GOD when we saw the face of the original Doctor (well the actor who portrayed him in Time & Space special feature in 2013).
Due to how good the episode was (Kudos to Moffat for the scene where The Doctor was quoting past versions of himself) that I wanted Capaldi to regenerate at the end because will the Christmas special top this? It would of been one of the greatest exits in the history of the show. Also do you think the next Doctor will be female? as The Doctor saying "We can only hope." as a reply to the Master's comment about Is the future going to be all girl? seemed like a big hint being dropped on purpose by Moffat.
Overall a mixed season for writing but the main cast was great and Peter Capaldi was FUCKING AMAZING. 12 is not my favourite Doctor but Peter is potentially the best actor ever to play the character.
At first I felt the episode was rushing things a bit but it soon found its rhythm and had some stellar character driven scenes over the typically flashy big epic stuff Doc Who finales can end up being. The scene in the barn with Bill & The Doctor, virtually every scene involving the Two Masters and The Doctor, Nardole, Doctor & Bill's farewell scene and The Two Masters killing each other. These were all well written and superbly acted out by what has been IMO, the strongest season in terms of pure acting ability though sadly the writing has been hit & miss overall.
I would hope this is the last we see of the Master because even if the Doctor never knows, we saw a true redemption arc where Missy decides to stand with her friend finally. I was hoping they would touch upon that Simm did save 10 and that shows the good in him/her but they didn't even mention it. The Master being the downfall of him/herself is the best ending to this character and The Master should be left alone.
I enjoyed how the pilot returned to save Bill and The Doctor, it was nice to bring the season back full circle and gives us the possibility of seeing Bill again. Pearl Mackie has been a delight this year and I've loved the onscreen chemistry she shared with Matt Lucas & Peter Capaldi. I was struggling to decide if the grade should be Good or Excellent but the final few minutes and the final scene, which had me shouting OH MY GOD, soon as I recognised the voice in the blizzard and another OH MY GOD when we saw the face of the original Doctor (well the actor who portrayed him in Time & Space special feature in 2013).
Due to how good the episode was (Kudos to Moffat for the scene where The Doctor was quoting past versions of himself) that I wanted Capaldi to regenerate at the end because will the Christmas special top this? It would of been one of the greatest exits in the history of the show. Also do you think the next Doctor will be female? as The Doctor saying "We can only hope." as a reply to the Master's comment about Is the future going to be all girl? seemed like a big hint being dropped on purpose by Moffat.
Overall a mixed season for writing but the main cast was great and Peter Capaldi was FUCKING AMAZING. 12 is not my favourite Doctor but Peter is potentially the best actor ever to play the character.
I'm not sure they gave him a TARDIS, more likely he stole one. The Timelords really don't seem to have much security where their time capsule are concerned.
The Doctor stole a TARDIS, the Master has had at least three, the Rani had one, the Monk, the War Chief, Clara & Ashildr.
Hence why I said acquired. 
I'm speechless. It has been some time since I teared up watching DW and this finale did it. The worst thing is that the Christmas Special will be ten (perhaps thirteen ? ) times more emotional. I must prepare myself for that. 
I loved that it's well established now that the Cybermen are an inevitable consequence of Humanity and that everywhere they happen, they follow the same Template... From Clothfaced Scarecrows to Full Iron Men.
That could be a good premise to a Story, maybe this "Template" is not random at all and it was engineered by someone with power enough to manipulate all of Time and Space. And all Dimensions too! Since Timelord technology takes a good beating crossing dimensions, someone with the power of inducing the creation of Cybermen in parallel realities could be a very powerful foe...
) times more emotional. I must prepare myself for that. I loved that it's well established now that the Cybermen are an inevitable consequence of Humanity and that everywhere they happen, they follow the same Template... From Clothfaced Scarecrows to Full Iron Men.
That could be a good premise to a Story, maybe this "Template" is not random at all and it was engineered by someone with power enough to manipulate all of Time and Space. And all Dimensions too! Since Timelord technology takes a good beating crossing dimensions, someone with the power of inducing the creation of Cybermen in parallel realities could be a very powerful foe...
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Weeelllll...
For me it was between 3 & 4. Decided to go with 4. The problem I felt was there were some excellent plot points but no actual plot. But that might just be me.
Quite dark. Sad about Bill, glad she was rescued at the end, and by something set up in the first episode, that was good. The countryside stuff, while quite bucolic and soothing in its own way, did not make any sense.
Nardole was good, and has grown a lot since his first appearance.
The two Masters, yeah, I didn't see that coming but it made sense. I was angry that Moffatt may have been trying to kill him off totally, but then I had an interesting thought. Eleven's line in a couple of episodes: time can be rewritten. Simm just has to make sure he doesn't regenerate into Gomez, which would mean Missy never existed. And of course, she made have stored up something against such an eventuality.
I will really miss this Doctor. But I feel that while he says he doesn't want to go, it also feels like his time is up. Hey, if he stays, I'm cool with that, and I wish he'd stay another year, but oh well.
The thing that struck me over Moff's tenure was that he was trying to recreate the Doctor and his legacy in his image. I hope some of this is undone over time.
And jellybabies!
And a dematerialisation circuit! 
For me it was between 3 & 4. Decided to go with 4. The problem I felt was there were some excellent plot points but no actual plot. But that might just be me.
Quite dark. Sad about Bill, glad she was rescued at the end, and by something set up in the first episode, that was good. The countryside stuff, while quite bucolic and soothing in its own way, did not make any sense.
Nardole was good, and has grown a lot since his first appearance.
The two Masters, yeah, I didn't see that coming but it made sense. I was angry that Moffatt may have been trying to kill him off totally, but then I had an interesting thought. Eleven's line in a couple of episodes: time can be rewritten. Simm just has to make sure he doesn't regenerate into Gomez, which would mean Missy never existed. And of course, she made have stored up something against such an eventuality.
I will really miss this Doctor. But I feel that while he says he doesn't want to go, it also feels like his time is up. Hey, if he stays, I'm cool with that, and I wish he'd stay another year, but oh well.
The thing that struck me over Moff's tenure was that he was trying to recreate the Doctor and his legacy in his image. I hope some of this is undone over time.
And jellybabies!
And a dematerialisation circuit!
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At times I've felt that Moffat's treated his stewardship of Doctor Who as an opportunity to win fandom fights from the 90s (say, at the Tavern or on radw). Sometimes I've even wondered where he'd fall on the rad/trad divide. (FWIW, as much as Moffat talks the rad game, in his heart he's really a trad, hence his long association with Mark Gatiss who is definitely a trad.)
I'm assuming these words are "radical" and "traditional". All you whippersnappers. I must be wearing thin.
Excellent episode. I still gave it four as all the elements didn't glom together as well I feel they should have. the individual parts however are a pastiche of great scenes that will make for great YouTube clips in years to come.
It was interesting that as the Doctor was running and jumping around and blowing up Cybermen left and right, I was thinking how much it reminded me of a typical episode of "Arrow". Then I remembered it was directed by Rachel Talalay, who also does exactly that for the Emerald Archer several times a year.
Speaking of, she's currently directing the Christmas special as well, and in the aftershow she (and Moffatt) revealed that they literally shot the icy scenes of the finale two-parter just one week prior to the airing of episode 11, thus explaining (among things) why Peter's hair looked even fuller than it did in the episode proper. That's quite a remarkable feat considering how much planning and work goes into even a brief scene like that. I'm sure it had a lot to do with having David Bradley around AND using the set to its fullest for the finale and the special, but trying to keep things secret was certainly a factor as well, however futile it was as the news of the casting leaked anyway.
I'm guessing they will try the same strategy with the actual thirteenth Doctor's casting as well, but I'm sure we'll end up knowing months beforehand anyway.
Mark
Excellent episode. I still gave it four as all the elements didn't glom together as well I feel they should have. the individual parts however are a pastiche of great scenes that will make for great YouTube clips in years to come.
It was interesting that as the Doctor was running and jumping around and blowing up Cybermen left and right, I was thinking how much it reminded me of a typical episode of "Arrow". Then I remembered it was directed by Rachel Talalay, who also does exactly that for the Emerald Archer several times a year.
Speaking of, she's currently directing the Christmas special as well, and in the aftershow she (and Moffatt) revealed that they literally shot the icy scenes of the finale two-parter just one week prior to the airing of episode 11, thus explaining (among things) why Peter's hair looked even fuller than it did in the episode proper. That's quite a remarkable feat considering how much planning and work goes into even a brief scene like that. I'm sure it had a lot to do with having David Bradley around AND using the set to its fullest for the finale and the special, but trying to keep things secret was certainly a factor as well, however futile it was as the news of the casting leaked anyway.
I'm guessing they will try the same strategy with the actual thirteenth Doctor's casting as well, but I'm sure we'll end up knowing months beforehand anyway.
Mark
That was alright but I think I liked last week's episode more. Regeneration is a horrible process and I can imagine wanting to resist it or put it off. Essentially you're dying every time you regenerate and a new person takes over your life with all your memories but it's not the current you. That would be rather traumatic psychologically I would imagine if you were not able to cope with it.
Not a bad 2nd part but not as good as last week.
Not a bad 2nd part but not as good as last week.
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