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Spoilers The Doctor Falls (Grade & Discussion Thread)

What is your view on the finale?

  • This is the perfect ending!

    Votes: 31 34.8%
  • Now that was really very nicely done.

    Votes: 46 51.7%
  • No biggie.

    Votes: 9 10.1%
  • A really rubbish one.

    Votes: 3 3.4%
  • Like sewage, smart phones and Donald Trump!

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    89
  • Poll closed .
But he doesn't actually fall because of a carefully orchestrated plan involving fake blood and an air mattress.

Oh hang on, wrong series.


Enjoyed this one, not as much as last week, but it was good enough. The Master/Missy double murder was great, although I'm really quite lost as to what the point of the Master being in this season at all was if that was all s/he was going to do.
Bill storyline was good, I enjoyed the ending of that, but the Doctor was a bit... overdone. Just regenerate already. That line about 'no reward' was a bit on the nose.
 
Lesbians in space is good but Clara/Ashildr is at least bisexuals in space which by Moffatt Logic (Molgic, Mofflic, Loffatt?) is even better. Not that I disagree.
 
Well, the regen thing has a bit more to it, methinks. He's clearly regenerating prior to getting shot twice by a Cyberman. Did the electrocution by the Mondasian Cybe get him, or did CyberBill actualy hit him when she got angry in the barn?
 
Well, the regen thing has a bit more to it, methinks. He's clearly regenerating prior to getting shot twice by a Cyberman. Did the electrocution by the Mondasian Cybe get him, or did CyberBill actualy hit him when she got angry in the barn?

I always thought that regeneration pretty much happened automatically as soon as the Doctor was fatally wounded. But it seems like the Doctor can pretty much choose to put off regeneration to the moment of his choosing, although I am still assuming that the Doctor cannot actually postpone his regeneration permanently, eventually his body would forcefully regenerate. But it does seem like the Doctor can postpone his regeneration quite a bit. First time was with the 10th Doctor who decides to go on a lengthy farewell tour before his regeneration and now the 12th Doctor who just chooses to say "no" and not regenerate right away.
 
I always thought that regeneration pretty much happened automatically as soon as the Doctor was fatally wounded. But it seems like the Doctor can pretty much choose to put off regeneration to the moment of his choosing, although I am still assuming that the Doctor cannot actually postpone his regeneration permanently, eventually his body would forcefully regenerate. But it does seem like the Doctor can postpone his regeneration quite a bit. First time was with the 10th Doctor who decides to go on a lengthy farewell tour before his regeneration and now the 12th Doctor who just chooses to say "no" and not regenerate right away.

There's an implication of it with the 5th Doctor in 'The Caves of Androzani' too.
 
The Simm Master was by far my favourite element of this episode, and his ruthless gunning down of Missy my favourite moment of this series.

Overall this is what The Time of The Doctor should have been. We actually get to see the great battles happening rather than continually cutting to voiceover and the holoville wasn't bogged down with silly Christmas stuff.

AsBill's departure was better than any of Clara's, although I can't help but notice that Martha is so far the only companion of the revived series who didn't wind up with some kind of dead-but-not-dead ending.

The only downside was the regeneration part at the very end. It looked as if we might finally get one with the Doctor lying down and actually looking like a dying man rather than getting up and making overblown speeches for half an hour, but instead it seems we could be in for a whole episode of that.
 
Last weeks episode was better, but this did have some good moments. And although seeing Simms' Master was great, he ultimatly served no purpose whatsoever.

The ending made me really curious about the Christmas special though. :D
 
I'm torn on the presentation of Bill throughout the episode. On the one hand, I loved Pearl Mackie's tortured performance as a converted Cyberman, not able to come to terms of her new being, but on the other hand, I wish we had seen the full horror of Bill's situation and stayed with the physical appearance of Bill as a Cyberman after she left the barn. Stay with the sing-song voice and have the conviction of Bill's words demonstrate that deep inside the Cyberman is still Bill.

That being said, I wasn't thrilled with the predicted rescue Bill received from Heather and they went gallivanting into the universe a la Clara and Me. I did like how her oil tear revived The Doctor though.

Speaking of The Doctor's revival, I'm also torn by his Tenth-esque reluctance to regenerate, refusing to ever change again. He was holding it back since the Cyberman attack on the rooftop, but it feels sudden and out of place that The Twelfth Doctor would be so reluctant to regenerate. I don't think this refusal had been properly built up to throughout the season or even in this story.

I loved how not only Missy predictably stabbed The Simm Master in the back, but The Master turned around shot her in the back, too. Nice how they laughed at the predicament, although it's a shame we didn't get to see Simm regenerate into Gomez. Perhaps to leave the door open for Simm to return and/or squeeze in another incarnation? Of course, this isn't the end of The Master. He's been back from worse without explanation. Either way, I do love the final revelation, after all of the teasing, that Missy was indeed turning towards good. Will that change remain when she returns?

Weird how Nardole and company are left on the ship, forever fighting the Cybermen, forever slowly retreating from the black hole (however utterly impossible that particular scenario is). It's a rather dark ending for a companion, yet treated rather happily. I hope we see Nardole again and not left in that situation.

I wish I hadn't spoiled myself with David Bradley's appearance, although at the same time, even without that foresight, his appearance wasn't all that surprising. There have been plenty of callbacks to The Tenth Planet (and the episode's earlier reference to The First Doctor), so The Twelfth Doctor's arrival at a snowy location felt like a foregone conclusion that it would lead up to The First Doctor's appearance. Seems very likely the Christmas episode will be a case of The First Doctor convincing The Twelfth Doctor to not fear change and to accept his regeneration.

Pity the rumor about glimpsing The Thirteenth Doctor's face proved to be untrue. I very much hoped Moffat, Chibnall, Capaldi, BBC, and everyone else managed to keep the casting a secret. Alas. On the plus side, I got a strong sense they are building up to a female Doctor with The Twelfth Doctor's "We can only hope" reply to The Master's "Is the future going to be all girl?"

Kind of weird the old Cybermen still existed alongside with the newest model, but not big deal. I sure wish the Cyberman that showed up in the elevator had been one of the old Classic Series models. That would've been a cool callback, although there were other multiple verbal callbacks to past Cybermen adventures. Still hate the stomping, especially from the original model and it was odd there were a few instances where they didn't, so it wasn't even consistent. On the plus side, The Doctor's comments about parallel evolution along with the ship not having even picking up the Mondasians pretty much confirms that this is just one iteration of the Cybermen and Spare Parts can easily exist alongside this story.

Pity Mickey was left out of the (sigh, new series only) companion roll call. Odd that Strax was left out while Vastra and Jenny were included.

Overall, while not quite as good as "The World Enough and Time," it was a very good follow-up and not even remotely as disappointing as previous two-parter conclusions, like "The Last of the Time Lords" and "Hell Sent." The Cyberman plot kind of disappeared into the background, but I didn't mind that because of the focus on Bill's situation and The Two Masters scenario, although I wish we had seen just a bit more of Simm and Gomez chewing up the scenery, mutual flirting and all.

Something else I've just remembered, when the Doctor was listing times he had defeated the Cybermen, didn't he list Marinus? Therefore making the Voord becoming Cybermen canon?
Yeah, I noticed that name drop, too. Maybe not the Cybermen themselves, but their evolution will lead towards cybernetic conversion.

I'm guessing Missy hijacks part of Simms regen energy to kickstart her own, thus accounting for the lost memories even the "timelines being out of sync" couldn't.
Maybe, although Missy already provided an explanation for the memory lost: The timelines are out of sync, which has already been used as an explanation for multiple Doctors stories.

5. The doctrine of sonic screwdrivers not being weapons appears to have gone out of the window.
Yeah, that bothered me as well. I know it'll never happen, but I wish the sonic screwdriver would go away again, if only for a couple of seasons.

Right, that was OK. Two Masters was way funnier and more sensible than multi-Dcotr stories we've seen. Ended exactly on the moment I expected. Still too similar an end to the last time we had a season finale, of course... (dead-b ut-not-dead lesbians in space! Again! I mean, the more lesbians the better but...)

Oh is it just me, or did the lighting make Simm really look like Simon Pegg throught...?
No, I noticed that as well. Similar round faces. ;)
 
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I went with "nicely done". Being a Who two-parter, I kind of expected it to unravel, but I though it held up good. The Master/Missy didn't really connect with the rest, but it was at least enjoyable. Perhaps The Doctor's "screw this, I'm out"-attiditude was pushed along but Missy's (as far as he knew) refusal to help him.

I liked the doing things because of it's decent speech a lot, but then I'm a sucker for monolougues. Heather coming by was surprising, but I think it works quite well.

Nardole's stuck with a rather difficult job. I guess it's too much to hope there will be a rescue mission at christmas.
 
Well, I actually expected shite. However, this has turned out to easily be the best series finale since 5. And considering this is Moffat's last, it should've been, and I'm grateful I didn't pulled my hair out like last year. Maybe because the story arc was so tenuous and loose (the entropy theme of OldWho's season 18 was much, much tigher and more relevant to Logopolis than the rest of series 10 was to this episode), but I was satisfied enough. Particularly with the best presentation of Simm's Master, who played it very Delgado-esque, but still with the Simm silliness in places. That is how the Master should always be.

My major complain would be, why didn't we see more models of the Cybermen. Why not the Invasion or the 80's/J.N.T. era Cybermen thrown into the mix? That'd have been a lovely touch, IMO.
 
And considering this is Moffat's last...
Not quite his last. ;)

Particularly with the best presentation of Simm's Master, who played it very Delgado-esque, but still with the Simm silliness in places. That is how the Master should always be.
I completely agree. Seems like Simms' manic over-the-top performance over a more grounded dramatic performance is shades Ainley's forced performances under Jonathan Nathan-Turner.

My major complain would be, why didn't we see more models of the Cybermen. Why not the Invasion or the 80's/J.N.T. era Cybermen thrown into the mix? That'd have been a lovely touch, IMO.
Yeah, like I said in my review, I wish the Cyberman that came out of the elevator had been one of those models.
 
I stated that it was 'Very Nicely Done'. I thought that I thought a lot of the episode was very bleak but the last few minutes elevated it. I didn't see the spoliery photos on the other thread of David Bradley as the 1st Doctor so the last thirty seconds or so had the desired effect. I loved the call backs to Tom Baker's Doctor in 'Robot' - "I'm not A Doctor, I'm THE Doctor.' :). I'm probably the only one that thinks this but I can't help shake the feeling that Peter Capaldi is not leaving the role just yet, and I don't mean the Christmas Special. That he may in fact have another year in him at least and that the announcement that he's leaving is either misdirection or was true at the time and he's had a change of heart subsequent to that.
 
This has been the best series for a long time. I was very disappointed with the quality of the writing last season and they completely pulled it back and then some this season. I felt that Clara over-stayed I don't know who is staying and who is going but I want all of them to stay for a while longer. Cameo at the end got a round of applause.
 
As far as I recall, Simm master started in utopia, went directly to 21st century earth, became Harold Saxon, did that whole series end, then died (shot by his wife), didn't regenerate, was cremated, and somebody took his ring. At no point did he have his own tardis, only tennant's - which was locked to 21st century earth.

When does this story fit in?
 
As far as I recall, Simm master started in utopia, went directly to 21st century earth, became Harold Saxon, did that whole series end, then died (shot by his wife), didn't regenerate, was cremated, and somebody took his ring. At no point did he have his own tardis, only tennant's - which was locked to 21st century earth.

When does this story fit in?
After "End of Time," his last appearance. During the rooftop scene, The Master explains that he was mutally kicked off Gallifrey and presumably that's when he acquired a TARDIS.
 
- Of course, out of all the possible Master's regenerations, she'd decide to turn good in no other than her female one. And Simm's Master's is suddenly right about his unwarranted “I'm worried about my future” line. Couldn't Missy be properly evil and backstab her other self and the Doctor? All while hinting that Simm's Master also had a lot more layers of crazy going on in his head, by whispering “Oh, he heard every single word of it.”
- And the flashbacks suggested Doctor Who didn't exist before 2005. Even Sarah Jane Smith flashback was post-2005 Who (or was it?).
- And the Doctor basically doomed the village and Nardole to a chase by Cybermen until their deaths. Pro-tip: The TARDIS is a time machine (goes to the Master as well).


Otherwise, solid 12/10.
 
After "End of Time," his last appearance. During the rooftop scene, The Master explains that he was mutally kicked off Gallifrey and presumably that's when he acquired a TARDIS.
I wish they had elaborated a little on the Master's second (or more) exile. Granted, we now know the Time Lords gave him/her the TARDIS she's been using in series 8 onwards, but... What about the four knocks? I know I may be focused on that predicament, but it was a very important plot/character point in series 3 and 4B (the specials year). I just wish we had an extra small dialogue moment of the Master saying that he figured he was he was always going to be, regardless of that sound. Or maybe the Doctor could've adressed that, without the sound, he could be decent again and the Simm Master would shrug him off but Missy.. she'd get it.
 
I managed to remain spoiler-free this time round. The Master killing Missy was a complete shocker. The way they handled Bill's fate was unexpected and, though a bit contrived, it worked. And Twelve stuffing his own regeneration only to be confronted by One? You could have knocked me over with a feather.

And damn it, get Nardole back at least once more.
 
After "End of Time," his last appearance. During the rooftop scene, The Master explains that he was mutally kicked off Gallifrey and presumably that's when he acquired a TARDIS.
How odd, I remember that episode but completely forgot about Simm's part. Now you mention it of course I remember the drums and the super-simm flying over the wasteland.
 
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