The Definitive SPOILER Thread. Actual Spoilers.

[Ryan8bit]

I haven't read the spoilers too closely, but what exactly is it that this blood is supposed to do? I mean, obviously there has to be limitations. Like, it probably helps the little girl because she has a disease and it contains some sort of antibodies. But why would such engineering be kept from society? Clearly that would be a good thing even if the super strength and intelligence may not be.

And it brings back a character from the dead from what kind of wounds? What are its limitations? It would have to have some otherwise people like McGivers never would have had to have died. It can't be just magic.

 

[Flake]

McGivers dying simply means that the blood was not effective against the Ceti eel

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I haven't read the spoilers too closely, but what exactly is it that this blood is supposed to do? I mean, obviously there has to be limitations. Like, it probably helps the little girl because she has a disease and it contains some sort of antibodies. But why would such engineering be kept from society? Clearly that would be a good thing even if the super strength and intelligence may not be.

And it brings back a character from the dead from what kind of wounds? What are its limitations? It would have to have some otherwise people like McGivers never would have had to have died. It can't be just magic.

Well, we know Augments can be killed by explosions, severe knife wounds, phasers, being crushed under falling debris, and Ceti Eels destroying the cerebral cortex. This movie seems to imply that they could gradually recover from fatal diseases, radiation exposure, and can even be brought back from death (as can normal humans and other animals if treated with their blood quickly enough). However, the chance of survivability or regeneration surely depends on the severity of the disease or radiation exposure and how long they've been dead.

 

[Jeyl]

So he's essentially JesusKhan.

 

[crucifixion]

I haven't read the spoilers too closely, but what exactly is it that this blood is supposed to do? I mean, obviously there has to be limitations. Like, it probably helps the little girl because she has a disease and it contains some sort of antibodies. But why would such engineering be kept from society? Clearly that would be a good thing even if the super strength and intelligence may not be.

And it brings back a character from the dead from what kind of wounds? What are its limitations? It would have to have some otherwise people like McGivers never would have had to have died. It can't be just magic.

Theres a lot of ways that can be explained..here are two off the top of my head:
1. Khan (original) didn't know his blood contained that stuff, just that he was genetically engineered. He only found out about all the things his blood can do after he was in section 31.
2. Khan knew but they were on a destroyed planet so most likely all their stuff including medical equipment was destroyed, so the only real option would be for Khan to bite his hand and pour his blood into her, and maybe they tried that but it didnt work cuz it was contaminated by the time it hit the air, etc.

 

[ralph]

How important are the Klingons to the plot? Nothing important. what a pity!
I would like to see them in action. Would Abrams be preparing them for the next film?

 

[Flake]

I haven't read the spoilers too closely, but what exactly is it that this blood is supposed to do? I mean, obviously there has to be limitations. Like, it probably helps the little girl because she has a disease and it contains some sort of antibodies. But why would such engineering be kept from society? Clearly that would be a good thing even if the super strength and intelligence may not be.

And it brings back a character from the dead from what kind of wounds? What are its limitations? It would have to have some otherwise people like McGivers never would have had to have died. It can't be just magic.

Theres a lot of ways that can be explained..here are two off the top of my head:
1. Khan (original) didn't know his blood contained that stuff, just that he was genetically engineered. He only found out about all the things his blood can do after he was in section 31.
2. Khan knew but they were on a destroyed planet so most likely all their stuff including medical equipment was destroyed, so the only real option would be for Khan to bite his hand and pour his blood into her, and maybe they tried that but it didnt work cuz it was contaminated by the time it hit the air, etc.

No, McGivers and other members of Khans posse where killed by the Ceti eel this implies that even the augments could not survive it. So super blood or not the ceti eel might kill ya though not always on the first attempt (Chekov)

 

[Jeyl]

How important are the Klingons to the plot? Nothing important.
I would like to see them in action. Would they be preparing them for the next film?

I have a feeling that's what it's all going to boil down towards. Of course, knowing the High Court, they'll probably write another gawddang "Earth is in danger!" story line where the Klingons declare war and invade Earth.

The Earth needed to play more of a role in these movies, especially in the sense of giving the audience a degree of relatability. I think that in the same way that New York City becomes this anchor point for people in the Marvel movies; that’s Spidey’s stomping ground, that was the stomping ground for Tony Stark, that was the stomping ground for The Avengers, it’s New York. We wanted to do the same thing with Earth in the Star Trek movies.”

Looks like the final battle between Khan and crew will actually be taking place on Earth as well.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

So he's essentially JesusKhan.

And that's different from the resurrection of JesusSpock, how? Or JesusSisko? Or JesusKim? Or JesusTucker clone from an alien jelly bean? Or JesusData, JesusKirk, JesusTucker (again) and JesusJaneway in TrekLit?

It's like people have never watched (or read) Star Trek before. Do you have any idea how many times characters have died and been brought back to life through some ridiculous means, whether it be time travel, alternate universe duplicates, fanciful realms that keep them alive, "magic" substances, or technobabble?

 

[Ryan8bit]

Well, we know Augments can be killed by explosions, severe knife wounds, phasers, being crushed under falling debris, and Ceti Eels destroying the cerebral cortex. This movie seems to imply that they could gradually recover from fatal diseases, radiation exposure, and can even be brought back from death (as can normal humans and other animals if treated with their blood quickly enough). However, the chance of survivability or regeneration surely depends on the severity of the disease or radiation exposure and how long they've been dead.

Yeah, I guess I'm just wondering what kind of death it is that it allows regeneration of. It would have to be something that precludes death by Ceti eel or failure of cryogenic chamber (didn't several die that way as well?)

I mean, I know I'm asking too much for things to be consistent, but I'm just trying to make things fit so that it indeed isn't magic blood.

And I know, it's crazy to not ask for magic when there's things like warp drive, red matter, Genesis devices, holodecks, etc. It's just that sometimes it's nice to see a little bit of the science in the science fiction too.

 

[Franklin]

[GLOAT] Kirk dies. I believe I had that. [/GLOAT]

Radiation kills by destroying DNA and either not allowing it to replicate, or it creates cells that can't control their division, and they divide constantly and become cancerous.

It could be quite possible that genetically enhanced blood could contain properties (maybe even nanobots) that can stop or even reverse this process in someone, even someone "recently dead." It just isn't that far fetched. It's even fairly logical within the realm of SCIENCE FICTION.

The thing is, does this genetically enhanced blood affect Kirk in any way going forward or do the writers end it here?

Also, ethically, what about other uses for new genetically enahnced blood or the enhanced blood of the others in cryo (if they have survived)? If this blood can bring a person killed by radiation back to life and cure a dying child whose illness vexed 23rd century medicine, it's worth exploring its properties, right?

 

[Flake]

Maybe the blood does its job that serves the plot and then dissipates in some technobabble way. Do we need a technobabble throwaway line in future to confirm this or do we just forget about it? I mean we forget that you can go back in time at will by slingshotting around the sun but it is ignored in all the spinoffs.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Well, we need a technobabble throwaway the same way we need an explanation for why those spore plants in "This Side Of Paradise" were never exploited - they were a goddamned panacea; they could even have healed Pike, for chrissakes.

 

[Ryan8bit]

(maybe even nanobots)

I thought about this, but then thought this goes a little far beyond simple genetic engineering. It would be more like genetic assistance, or something. Then again, Khan and his followers were originally not genetically engineered either.

Also, ethically, what about other uses for new genetically enahnced blood or the enhanced blood of the others in cryo (if they have survived)? If this blood can bring a person killed by radiation back to life and cure a dying child whose illness vexed 23rd century medicine, it's worth exploring its properties, right?

Yeah, I think there are tons of moral and ethical questions that could be addressed with this, but probably none of them will be. I simply can't understand why genetic engineering as a whole would be banned if it could cure particular ailments. Could they not selectively just work on at least the issue of the blood in the 200 years since?

 

[Flake]

The issue of banning genetic engineering was always controversial yet it is 100% canon that some genetic engineering did take place in the 24th century. I have forgotten the episode name right now... TNG season 2 with Pulaski rapid ageing..

 

[Franklin]

From TVH: "The doctor gave me a pill and I've grown a new kidney! The doctor gave me a pill and I've grown a new kidney!" Best application of Trek medicine, ever. And whatever that little pill was, it was something so common that McCoy had it with him in is little old black bag.

So, what the hell on life-giving blood.

 

[M'Sharak]

I did ask—in the brand-new Announcement that's at the top of the forum, right there above the pinned threads—that all reviews and links to reviews go in either the pinned Grading & Discussion thread or the thread specific to a particular premiere showing, so I'll be closing this now.