"The Dark Knight Rises" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

[jbny67]

His original name in the comics was Mr. Zero. This was around 1959, so it wasn't long before the t.v. show changed his name to Mr. Freeze. They also gave him a "real name", Dr. Schivel.

The show even gave him an origin. Batman spilled cryogenic chemicals on Dr. Schivel during an arrest.

 

[Set Harth]

Batman seems to have a recurring problem with creating supervillains that way.

 

[RoJoHen]

Clearly Gotham needs to stop worrying about the mob and start worrying about the regulation of toxic chemicals.

 

[Captain Craig]

^^^
The only issue with that is in the closing moments you see three things in this order:
-Batman in the cockpit
-timer on the bomb to :05 seconds
-Blake on the bridge viewing the bomb going off

How much minimum safe distance can you get on 6 mile blast radius in 5 seconds?
He's not Superman, no ejection system is going to get that accomplished. It's suddenly asking for lots of suspension of disbelief in a saga that more or less has enjoyed being steeped in a mostly real world of application toys for Batman. Furthermore with Blake and others watching how would you not see an "escape moment"?

As others have pointed out, the scene is deliberately edited such that we are MISLED to think there was insufficient time to escape, so that it will come as a surprise that he did. How much time passed between the last shot of him in the cockpit and the last shot of the timer? Impossible to say. Sufficient time. As for seeing him escape, all they saw was a mushroom cloud way off on the horizon. Too far away for them to observe his escape.

I see people online defending this by inventing the idea we the viewer were mislead. There is nothing in those few seconds to indicate they aren't essentially sequential. We the viewer know where the cockpit is, by saying that it could now be an escape cockpit is something one has to make up in order for the final reveal moments to work. Nothing in this film suggests The Bat had an escape module. Not only that but it's small vehicle, the bulk of it is just the rotors. Great time was taken to let us know the Tumbler had an escape mechanism, defenders are just saying how do we know this one didn't? I say how do we know that based on what we saw, we don't. Having to craft too much out of thin air in order to make the story work is just sloppy writing and Nolan utilized too much of that for this installment imo.
Filling in the blanks for Blake, fine that works. Overall too much of that is going on in this film.

 

[Set Harth]

Clearly Gotham needs to stop worrying about the mob and start worrying about the regulation of toxic chemicals.

For reals yo.

 

[Samurai8472]

I think Mr Freeze could have worked in a Nolan film. You had the device from Batman begins that could evaporate water or something like that...I cannot remember. Anyway I could see some genius scientist type who is mentally unstable and getting a hold of that device and manipulating it so that it freezes everything in sight.

You could handle it like Nolan handled Catwoman. First giving him a different name and not calling him Mr. Freeze would be a good start.

Batman begins- Microwave emitter damages Gotham's water mains

The Dark Knight - Nothing too devastating except blowing up a hospital.

The Dark Knight Rises- Specially placed explosives underneath Gotham

Hypothetical 4th movie- I could see a harsh winter in Gotham.

Maybe Mr Freeze could flood Gotham. Introduce the Batboat.

 

[RoJoHen]

I honestly think Mr. Freeze would be one of the easier villains to adapt to the Nolan universe.

 

[Captaindemotion]

^Or 'Would have been.' Can't see it happening now.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

I see people online defending this by inventing the idea we the viewer were mislead. There is nothing in those few seconds to indicate they aren't essentially sequential.

No one online invented the idea that movies are not edited in real time; they constantly expand and compress it to create a desired impression. The impression we are meant to have at the time of the explosion is that Batman died in it. Then the twist is that we find out he actually survived. It's really quite simple and something movies and comics do all the time.

What's inventing something out of thin air is suggesting that Alfred is hallucinating seeing Bruce and Selena at the cafe and ignoring the other evidence of Batman surviving because..."it looked like he didn't have time to escape!" Of course it looked like that, it was supposed to, if it didn't there wouldn't be tension and there wouldn't be a surprise. Theatricality and deception.

 

[sojourner]

Great time was taken to let us know the Tumbler had an escape mechanism,

Untrue. The existence of the "Batbike" in the movie wasn't revealed until it was used. Regardless of leaked images.

 

[Greg Cox]

What's inventing something out of thin air is suggesting that Alfred is hallucinating seeing Bruce and Selena at the cafe and ignoring the other evidence of Batman surviving because..."it looked like he didn't have time to escape!" Of course it looked like that, it was supposed to, if it didn't there wouldn't be tension and there wouldn't be a surprise. Theatricality and deception.

Has anybody else been watching the old Green Hornet serial on TCM? Every episode ends with the Hornet apparently dying in a fiery plane crash or something, with no apparent escape.

So clearly Chapters 2 through 13 are fantasies or "open to interpretation."

 

[Guy Gardener]

I'm just amused by how close Alfred's visitation in the end of the movie was to his fantasy from the beginning.

Too close.

Regardless of whether Bruce survived.

(Because he totally did.)

I think Alfred was just having a stroke.

The filter used, made me think of 12 monkeys where Bruce Willis keeps having that flashback about how as a child he saw his adult self was shot dead after time traveling.

Are we supposed to believe that Bruce set that up?

Organized a confluence of events to match Alfred's "dream" to give the old guy a warm tingly feeling inside, when any contact would be incredibly dangerous and lead probably to Alfred's execution if not Alfred being taken hostage and tortured until Bruce delivered himself as a human ransom to himself be tortured and murdered.

Or was it just fate being magnanimous for once?

If it did happen, would Selina play along with that set up?

Or did he endanger her life too, and lie to her during the course of which, just to give the old guy a warm tingly feeling inside.

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

All Bruce had to do to "set it up" was to know where Alfred would be and be there himself. Alfred told him he went there every year; he described this habit in detail earlier in the film. Don't know what you mean about the torture and murder and endangerment. The world believes Bruce Wayne dead and Blake will likely have taken his place as Batman, so who would be out to get him or his former butler? He and Selena have their clean slate, they can go where they want and live as they please.

 

[Guartho]

To continue, we do have fusion reactors that work. Lots of them.

This is genuinely surprising news to me. Where are they?

Stunning. stunning example of "out of context". I applaud you.

When you're done applauding would you mind answering the question, because I was being completely serious. I have never heard of a man made fusion reaction, practical or otherwise.

 

[Guartho]

Great time was taken to let us know the Tumbler had an escape mechanism,

Untrue. The existence of the "Batbike" in the movie wasn't revealed until it was used. Regardless of leaked images.

The eacape system is mentioned by Fox in Begins. He doesn't describe how it works though, and I wouldn't call it a great amount of time either.

 

[Snaploud]

This is genuinely surprising news to me. Where are they?

Stunning. stunning example of "out of context". I applaud you.

When you're done applauding would you mind answering the question, because I was being completely serious. I have never heard of a man made fusion reaction, practical or otherwise.

A thermonuclear bomb (also known as a hydrogen bomb) uses a man-made fusion reaction to increase the destructive power of a fission reaction (as opposed to an atomic bomb, which uses just a fission reaction). It was developed way back in 1951 (tested for the first time in 1952).

The first man-made semistationary fusion reaction goes back to 1968.

 

[Guartho]

The first man-made semistationary fusion reaction goes back to 1968.

My mind is more blown than Justin Bieber at a community college sorority party.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Interesting article on Time online about how Robin John Blake, while seeming to be a new character created just for TDKR, is actually an amalgam of the original 3 Robins. In fact I just noticed that his full name incorporates Dick Grayson's father's name as middle name - just as in Richard John Grayson. I had thought he was a pretty straight up nod to Dick Grayson, but the article points out solid material that came from Jason and Tim as well.

In the course of reading about some of this stuff, I've come across that Damian Wayne has been Robin the last three years (I haven't read a Batman comic in many years)? And I know Dick was Batman for a while - don't know if that's still going on but I assume not after the Return of Bruce Wayne story. So what's become of Tim in the comics?

 

[Snaploud]

In the course of reading about some of this stuff, I've come across that Damian Wayne has been Robin the last three years (I haven't read a Batman comic in many years)? And I know Dick was Batman for a while - don't know if that's still going on but I assume not after the Return of Bruce Wayne story. So what's become of Tim in the comics?

Tim now goes by the name Red Robin (changing his name/costume when Damian took up the Robin identity). He leads the Teen Titans, and there are rumors that they're going to pretend he was never a Robin and always went by the name Red Robin.

Dick is no longer Batman. He goes by Nightwing again (which is strange because his run as an additional Batman--holding the cowl along with Bruce--was quite popular).

 

[LaxScrutiny]

Dick is no longer Batman. He goes by Nightwing again (which is strange because his run as an additional Batman--holding the cowl along with Bruce--was quite popular).

Popularity is no surprise, Dick has always been a great character.