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The curse(?) of small universe syndrome

Does any of that matter?
It does matter since one is purposely made from a Synthetic Source and had no natural biological evolutionary steps.

It's the nature of species to evolve and adapt.
Is this Natural 'Evolution & Adaptation' or Man-Made Engineering?

I'd argue it's more Engineering given how they were made & the source of what they were made from.

Biological Species evolve & adapt over countless Eons through natural reproductive cycles and changing of DNA to better suite the environment at hand.

Androids / Robots / Droids / Synths are made, upgraded, & improved on with each iteration/revision of it's design by it's maker.

Any Adaptation or Evolution is either by programmed algorithms inside or by design thanks to it's creator(s).

The Line of Androids doesn't Evolve or Adapt on it's own generally, any seemingly evolutionary function is programmed into it or new hardware is given to it to adapt to the problem at hand.

Altan Soong passed Away.
Bruce Maddox is dead.
Agnes Juratti isn'r around to help out.

Any of the talented Roboticists needed to create more Coppelius Synths would need to start all over again.

While a simpler Android like a Soong-Type Android that Data was would be far easier to understand, replicate, and mass produce.
 
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Except they have nothing in common aside from that. "The Squire of Gothos" made it explicit that Trelane's powers came from technology, so there was nothing "godlike" about him at all. Heck, aside from moving Gothos (which could've been an illusion), he didn't do anything you couldn't do with a transporter, replicator, and holodeck -- and his illusions weren't even as good as a holodeck's. So the idea that he has any relationship to beings as powerful as the Q is preposterous. The only things they have in common are imperious attitude and cosplay.

The problem is that people tend to lump all advanced species together into the "godlike" category, arbitrarily assuming they all have equally limitless power instead of recognizing a hierarchy of different power levels. Like the tendency (unfortunately now canonized) to interpret the Metrons as Organian-like energy beings when there was absolutely nothing in the episode to suggest that (aside from some sparkle that was just sunlight reflecting off the Metron's shiny costume into the camera lens). Heck, even screenwriters are guilty of that kind of power inflation. In "Encounter at Farpoint," the Q were implied to be inhabitants of that particular newly explored region of space, which is why they hadn't been encountered before, and Q needed a forcefield-sphere "ship" to pursue the Enterprise rather than just instantly teleporting wherever. But as soon as the second Q episode, their powers were inflated to the level of being able to resurrect the dead.
Yes... godlike powers would be a huge evolutionary advantage for most any race, so they should evolve independently fairly often. Just like humanoid eyes, hands, etc. So there's no need to link them together like the Gothos beings with Q when they're really not all that similar.
 
It does matter since one is purposely made from a Synthetic Source and had no natural biological evolutionary steps.

No, that doesn't matter on the level I'm talking about. The Coppelius synths are still descendants of Data and capable of reproduction, so they can be considered Data's species. And since they're descended from Soong's work, they can validly be called Soong-type androids. Yes, Maddox helped, but most inventions are collaborative processes. And yes, there are differences, but species evolve and change. A difference is not an impassable barrier -- that's the entire message of Star Trek.


Is this Natural 'Evolution & Adaptation' or Man-Made Engineering?

You're taking my analogy way too literally. Obviously it's a synthetic species -- it's right there in the name. My point is that an advance or change in how that species is created does not make it a fundamentally separate species, any more than an evolutionary change in a biological species necessarily makes it separate.

Besides, I just said it's irrational to treat a difference as an impassable barrier. Different things can overlap. If a chid is conceived by in vitro fertilization, does that make the child less of a "real" person? The Coppelius synths are Data's offspring, and thus his species, regardless of the technique used for the procreation.


Yes... godlike powers would be a huge evolutionary advantage for most any race, so they should evolve independently fairly often. Just like humanoid eyes, hands, etc. So there's no need to link them together like the Gothos beings with Q when they're really not all that similar.

I'm not a fan of the assumption that "godlike powers" would evolve at all, since that's not how evolution works. It's not an "upward" drive like many people assume, just a statistical process wherein traits that improve reproductive success in a given environment are therefore reproduced more successfully. "Ascending" to an incorporeal state isn't something that evolution would ever select for, since how do you reproduce without a body? (Although I did my best to handwave an explanation for that when I wrote TNG: The Buried Age two decades ago.)

Still, if I grit my teeth and stipulate to the fictional conceit of superpowered beings existing, it is true that traits that grant a survival advantage should be favored by evolution. Though that doesn't always mean greater power or strength, since different environments and survival strategies select for different kinds of advantage. Sometimes being small and weak is a survival advantage; look at mass extinctions on land, where it's always the biggest, most dominant species like non-avian dinosaurs that die out first, while the smaller species like birds, insects, and early mammals survive because they need less food and can procreate faster (so they evolve faster).

I've always been annoyed by sci-fi/fantasy stories that postulate that a tiny minority of humans has always had psychic abilities, or magical abilities or shapeshifting or whatever. Evolutionarily speaking, if such abilities existed, they would have granted such a survival advantage that they would have long ago become dominant traits, and now everyone would have them.
 
I've always been annoyed by sci-fi/fantasy stories that postulate that a tiny minority of humans has always had psychic abilities, or magical abilities or shapeshifting or whatever. Evolutionarily speaking, if such abilities existed, they would have granted such a survival advantage that they would have long ago become dominant traits, and now everyone would have them.
No. Classic Darwinian Evolution did not take conscious thought into account as a driver in evolution. It was easy to assume in the past that life forms did not take their own conscious decisions in how their breeding choices would affect future generations. That might be mostly well and good with less intelligent life forms but with humans it all goes out the window. Humans are generally aware of where babies come from and that traits are inherited whether they believe in evolution or not, and some do choose partners with that in mind, or even remove themselves out of the future gene pool entirely for their own reasons. Any highly advanced related species or some hidden continuity of advanced persons being able to live in and among humans would certainly be able to make those choices as well. In this case I mean whether they actually did want to dominate homo-sapiens, or live quietly among them, or stick to their own kind for breeding purposes and gradually break off from homo-sapiens.

Our human ancestors seemed good to go when the opportunity to mate with another humanoid species presented itself since there's plenty of evidence of homo-sapiens mating with Denisovians and Neanderthals.
 
I've always been annoyed by sci-fi/fantasy stories that postulate that a tiny minority of humans has always had psychic abilities, or magical abilities or shapeshifting or whatever.
We know that within the Trek Universe, Humans don't have ESPer like powers naturally.
But there is a VERY Risky way to activate said dormant abilities.
It's a "High Risk, High Reward" method that you know very well.

Going to the Galactic Barrier and getting exposed to the "Strange Energies" within it
So far, there are records of 18 people who have been exposed to the "Strange Energy" within the Galactic Barrier
- 15 of those people died due to exposure, that's a 83⅓ % chance of death.
- _3 of those people survived and developed ESPer like Super Powers, that's a 16⅔ % chance of success
_ - 2 of those became Megalomanical & Evil. So far, ⅔ became evil.
_ - 1 of those remained a good person for various reasons. So far ⅓ remained good.
Granted that comes from a very limited sample size, so more testing is obviously needed, but it should be on a voluntary basis only.

Imagine if other species learn of that and have volunteers go to the Galactic Barrier and risk their lives to activate potentially Dormant Super Powers across all the various Humanoid Species.
Or species who already have ESPer powers like Telepathy gain even greater powers.
The amount of interesting Story Telling that could happen if those types of people got brought back to the wider Galactic Society and Breed with others to pass down their powers.
Especially if they kept their Super ESPer Powers secret from the general population intentionally.

Evolutionarily speaking, if such abilities existed, they would have granted such a survival advantage that they would have long ago become dominant traits, and now everyone would have them.
I'd agree that those types of Super Powers would be way too powerful and most would want to pass on said powers to the next generation.
 
And even if it is just one, it shows your statement "We know that within the Trek Universe, Humans don't have ESPer like powers naturally" to be false.
According to the novel The Higher Frontier, Humans are not a naturally psychic race, as they lack a paracortex or similar structure in their brains. Instead, Miranda Jones and every other Human esper is bonded with a Spectre, a non-corporeal entity that provides its host with psychic ability.
When they expanded on details, she wasn't naturally psychic. She gained those abilities via bonding with a non-corporeal entity.

WNMHGB establishes that humans are rated for ESPer abilities, so probably more than one.
But before exposure to "Strange Energies", Gary Mitchell might be highly rated for ESPer abilities, but he didn't have said powers until exposure.
There might be some Genetic Predisposition towards ESPer capabilities in humanity, but we lack certain brain structure to use it.
"Strange Energies" can solve that.
 
When they expanded on details, she wasn't naturally psychic.


But before exposure to "Strange Energies", Gary Mitchell might be highly rated for ESPer abilities, but he didn't have said powers until exposure.
There might be some Genetic Predisposition towards ESPer capabilities in humanity, but we lack certain brain structure to use it.
"Strange Energies" can solve that.
Novels don't mean a thing. Show me a source from the shows or films.
WNMHGB More talk of ESPers
KIRK: Extrasensory perception. Doctor Dehner, how are you on ESP?
DEHNER: In tests I've taken, my ESP rated rather high.
KIRK: I'm asking what you know about ESP.
DEHNER: It is a fact that some people can sense future happenings, read the backs of playing cards and so on, but the esper capacity is always quite limited.
SPOCK: Before the Valiant was destroyed, its captain was frantically searching for ESP information on his crew.
DEHNER: Espers are simply people with flashes of insight.
SPOCK: Are there not also those who seem to see through solid objects, cause fires to start spontaneously?
DEHNER: There's nothing about it that could possibly make a person dangerous.
SPOCK: Doctor Dehner is speaking of normal ESP power.
DEHNER: Perhaps you know of another kind?
KIRK: Do we know for sure, Doctor, that there isn't another kind?
Seems ESPers are well known.
 
Novels don't mean a thing. Show me a source from the shows or films.
We'll have to agree to disagree on the Novel's value.

Seems ESPers are well known.
How often do we see "Human" ESPers outside of TOS?
Especially those that are naturally born with said ESPer powers?

As far as ESPer ratings.
An esper rating was a representation of a person's psionic potential. Even Humans with the highest esper ratings did not actually have any psionic abilities, but such individuals could acquire them under the right circumstances. Esper ratings were usually determined along with an individual's aperception quotient and Duke-Heidelburg quotient.

Doctor Elizabeth Dehner had a "better than average" esper rating, with a measured value of 089. Lieutenant Gary Mitchell, however, had a higher esper rating of 091, which was deemed "well above average". In fact, in 2265, Mitchell was determined to have the highest esper rating among the crew of the USS Enterprise. (TOS: "Where No Man Has Gone Before")
I'm inclined to believe that Dr. Dehner wasn't born with ESPer powers but gained it some how later on in life.
Just like Gary Mitchell gained his ESPer Super Powers.
 
Essentially, it means that while Mitchell could guess things he shouldn't know otherwise correctly at a higher rate than most people, he had never and could never manipulate objects with his mind or create them out of thin air before he got zapped.
 
Essentially, it means that while Mitchell could guess things he shouldn't know otherwise correctly at a higher rate than most people, he had never and could never manipulate objects with his mind or create them out of thin air before he got zapped.
Yes. He and Dehner were low level ESPers before the barrier.
 
Our opinions also don't mean a thing. Likewise some MA user's interpretation of ESPer ratings also don't mean much. The Franchise's owners opinion on the other hand does.
So why haven't they shown Human ESPers being naturally born in all this time?
There's been plenty of episodes since the very first one.
The subject matter hasn't bothered to come up again.

In TNG (Unnatural Selection), the human kids that have TK & TP were Genetically Engineered to have those abilities.
But they were literal Guinea Pigs of the Researchers at the Space Station.
 
Perhaps a dependence on technology led to such abilities being in many cases heavily suppressed or ignored. Or perhaps in some settings it was so common to be good at such things that it wasn't seen as special or out of the ordinary, and wasn't attributed by most people to powers but human ability/probability.
 
So why haven't they shown Human ESPers being naturally born in all this time?
There's been plenty of episodes since the very first one.
The subject matter hasn't bothered to come up again.

In TNG (Unnatural Selection), the human kids that have TK & TP were Genetically Engineered to have those abilities.
But they were literal Guinea Pigs of the Researchers at the Space Station.
They chose not to. Simple as that. If they could get a story out of it (As they did in "Is There In Truth No Beauty" A third season episode) they will.
 
We'll have to agree to disagree on the Novel's value.

Speaking as the author of the novel in question, its value is as a work of entertainment and creative expression, not a documentary source. What we tie-in authors write is purely conjectural and not binding on the creators of canon. I like to say that if a fictional canon is history, its tie-ins are historical fiction. You can enjoy them as speculations about things that might have happened in between the pages of recorded history, but they certainly shouldn't be mistaken for actual historical sources, and any of their speculations could be invalidated by new "discoveries" (i.e. new canon stories) at any time. (For instance, my followup to The Higher Frontier, Living Memory, delved into Uhura's family history in a way that was thoroughly contradicted by the pilot of Strange New Worlds. But that's fine, because it's all make-believe anyway and what matters is exploring possibilities.)

According to "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and "Is There in Truth No Beauty," some esper ability occurs naturally in some percentage of humans, though abilities as strong as Miranda Jones's are quite rare. This is consistent with what was popularly believed by many in the 1960s, particularly science fiction editor John W. Campbell, whose tastes had a substantial influence on the subjects and themes tackled by the science fiction of the 1940s-60s, since so many people were writing in hopes of selling to him. Later on, the experiments purporting to show psychic ability were debunked and the idea declined in popularity, which may be why we never saw telepathic humans in the TNG-era shows. My motivation in explaining human telepathy the way I did in The Higher Frontier was largely to offer a conjectural explanation for why the esper abilities that humans were established to have in the 23rd century were gone by the 24th. But of course it's only an exercise in creative conjecture, not a "fact."
 
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