The curse(?) of small universe syndrome

[Detached Nacelle]

So I'm not really sure what your impression of the "relaunch" era is based on.

To clarify I didn't say it applied to the entirety of the relaunch era, I don't want it to be misconstrued.

Voyager keeps the band together, yes on different ships but on a fleet together and takes them back to the Delta Quadrant for what feels to me like just a recapturing of the show and not actually pushing things for the characters forward.

Beverly returning again, Geordi as a captain but still chief engineer, Data's resurrection. It just doesn't wow me.

DS9 did things better but they even had O'Brien return to his old job on the second station if I recall.

Enterprise did things even better by breaking up the core cast and undoing the 10 year ensign injustice of TATV.

As I said though this is just talking about it falling flat to me, I am not excited or entertained by the decisions made by whoever was in charge of said decisions. It's about feelings which are inately irrational.

 

[Christopher]

Beverly returning again, Geordi as a captain but still chief engineer, Data's resurrection. It just doesn't wow me.

Strictly speaking, Data wasn't exactly resurrected. The "Data 2.0" in the novels is more an amalgam of the memories and personalities of Data and the Soong android and (I think) Lal, so he's more a distinct "offspring" than a resurrection per se. Which isn't that different from how Picard season 3 did it later on.

DS9 did things better but they even had O'Brien return to his old job on the second station if I recall.

The later books brought back O'Brien, but also took characters like Sisko and Kira in very different directions. It was hardly "getting the band back together."

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Voyager keeps the band together, yes on different ships but on a fleet together and takes them back to the Delta Quadrant for what feels to me like just a recapturing of the show and not actually pushing things for the characters forward.

Uninteresting though it may be to a reader, there are practical reasons to send someone who has been somewhere before on a new mission there - familiarity with the territory, good relationships with allies, firsthand knowledge of a foe's strategies.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

Strictly speaking, Data wasn't exactly resurrected. The "Data 2.0" in the novels is more an amalgam of the memories and personalities of Data and the Soong android and (I think) Lal, so he's more a distinct "offspring" than a resurrection per se. Which isn't that different from how Picard season 3 did it later on.




The later books brought back O'Brien, but also took characters like Sisko and Kira in very different directions. It was hardly "getting the band back together."

My feelings on Picard season 3 are also well documented as are the return of Sisko.

Uninteresting though it may be to a reader, there are practical reasons to send someone who has been somewhere before on a new mission there - familiarity with the territory, good relationships with allies, firsthand knowledge of a foe's strategies.

True and it worked for me in STO, I felt the story was done better in that regard it had more purpose to me.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

That's a dangerous "lesson" to teach kids.

Probably so. I was quite indoctrinated how invincible religous characters could be as a kid, until the Martians incinerated the priest in THE WAR OF THE WORLDS. Even at 4:30 in the afternoon that moment sent chills down my young spine.

 

[Rowdy Roddy McDowall]

The early Fantastic Four comics played fast and loose with the fourth wall a lot, having Lee & Kirby be characters in the book and having the FF read their own comic and answer reader letters.

True. I particularly remember the Thing complaining against the writers who correctly pointed out what a useless simp Sue Storm could originally be. It's arguably true that Sue, Jan Van Dyne and Jean Grey, being Stan Lee creations, shared a recurring helplessness in the old days.

 

[knightgrace]

The She-Hulk, is better looking in both forms than He-Hulk...

I like women with brains...

 

[Christopher]

My feelings on Picard season 3 are also well documented...

As are mine, but the way they brought Data back was one of the only things I liked about it, because it wasn't just a lazy reset button to restore the old status quo. And neither was what the novels did.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

As are mine, but the way they brought Data back was one of the only things I liked about it, because it wasn't just a lazy reset button to restore the old status quo. And neither was what the novels did.

My preference is for him to not be brought back at all, I dont really think there's any way I wouldn't find it lazy but everyone's got some plots that will just never click for them.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

If a writer likes a character, you need not resurrect them to have more of them, if by doing so it would cheapen their sacrifice, seem too contrived, or ruin the motivation of other characters.

Assuming you haven't portrayed too much of their lives to have any gaps in which to tell additional stories, you can go back and fill in the details from the past. Or if it's sci-fi/AU, you can continue their lives following a different sequence of events.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I don't have a problem with how Data was brought back in Picard season 3. In fact, in some ways I'm not even sure he's entirely the same being, if you know what I mean. But whoever he is, I decided that I liked him.

 

[Christopher]

My preference is for him to not be brought back at all, I dont really think there's any way I wouldn't find it lazy but everyone's got some plots that will just never click for them.

That would have been my preference too, but if it had to be done anyway, I'm reasonably satisfied with the way the novels and PIC did it, because it could've been done a lot worse.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

I don't have a problem with how Data was brought back in Picard season 3. In fact, in some ways I'm not even sure he's entirely the same being, if you know what I mean. But whoever he is, I decided that I liked him.

Everyone should have lots of content they love

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

because it could've been done a lot worse.

In what way? A transporter clone?

 

[Christopher]

In what way? A transporter clone?

I was thinking more in terms of sacrificing B-4 to bring back Data, as well as bringing Data back exactly as before and thereby cheapening his death.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Mashing the reset button.

There was a conversation on one of the other threads suggesting that when something with similarities to another incident involving the TOS crew happened, it ought to be mentioned, or at the very least, the TNG crew ought not to say, "nobody's ever seen something like this before" when even if they have no personal knowledge of such an incident, they have access to the computer records.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I was thinking more in terms of sacrificing B-4 to bring back Data, as well as bringing Data back exactly as before and thereby cheapening his death.

I'm glad they never did that.

The way they brought back Data was my preferred way.

What would be interesting is if they figure out how to mass produce Soong Type Androids while Data is in his current Body.

 

[Christopher]

What would be interesting is if they figure out how to mass produce Soong Type Androids while Data is in his current Body.

There's already a whole colony of Soong-type androids on Coppelius, as we learned in PIC season 1. Not mass-produced, but reproduced by fractally cloning one of Data's positronic neurons, so that they're all essentially his children. (His brainchildren, in a more literal sense than usual.)

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

There's already a whole colony of Soong-type androids on Coppelius, as we learned in PIC season 1. Not mass-produced, but reproduced by fractally cloning one of Data's positronic neurons, so that they're all essentially his children. (His brainchildren, in a more literal sense than usual.)

The Coppelius Androids are FAR more Advanced then the Soong-Type Android that were used for B4, Lore, Data, Lal.
Also they were created by Altan Soong & Bruce Maddox, so they don't have a single creator, it was a partnership that created them.
It'd be more accurate to call them a Soong/Maddox-Androids.

The Organic physical body that Soji Asha was based on is on a completely different level of engineering than the Soong-Type Android that Data was created from.

At the end of the day, a Soong Type Android is a very finely engineered piece of Bi-Pedal Android Robotics.

The Coppelius Synths are a perfect blend of Android & Organic Technology, enough to fool most Sensors of their era and to pass as normal humans as we saw with Soji & Dahj.

To quote Geordi when he was examining Data's new Positronic Golem Body that houses Jean Luc-Picard and Data 2.0:
"This new Positronic Body is infinitely more complex than the Data I used to know. This is more art than engineering."

I'm willing to presume that the Golem Body is similar to the Copellius Androids Body in terms of complexity & design given how human they looked.

Given that Geordi spent countless time examining Data's Soong-Type Body and probably has records on them, the work that Altan Soong & Maddox did must've been incredible enough to fool the vast majority of Sensors & People to have Soji & Dahj seem like normal people.

 

[Christopher]

The Coppelius Androids are FAR more Advanced then the Soong-Type Android that were used for B4, Lore, Data, Lal.
Also they were created by Altan Soong & Bruce Maddox, so they don't have a single creator, it was a partnership that created them.
It'd be more accurate to call them a Soong/Maddox-Androids.

Does any of that matter? It's the nature of species to evolve and adapt.