The Classic Final Fantasy Games Thread

[DigificWriter]

Admiral M, I already mentioned the X/X-2 and XII job classes earlier in the thread, but you and I seem to have come to different conclusions about the job classes present in the latter, and I'd be interested in hearing the thought process that led you to those conclusions., especially Fran's dual-job status as a Red Mage.

In terms of the conclusions re: the FFXIi characters' job classes that I came to, I based said conclusions on both a combination of their stated occupations, their character attributes and/or stats, and their character designs and story arcs. For example, I based my conclusion of Penelo being a Red Mage on her incredibly high magic stats, the initial layout of her License Board, and her initial equipment. You're not really able to costume her like a traditional Red Mage, but everything else about her character really gears her towards being of that job class even in the face of the open-ended nature of the License Board.

I had tried to figure out what the pre-determined job classes for the XIII/XIII-2 characters, but didn't know how to reconcile their basic character traits with the Paradigm Shift battle mechanic. I did notice that you left out Vanille and Fang, so in case anyone is interested, their job classes would, based on their character designs and battle characteristics, be Sage (Vanille) and Dragoon ( Fang), respectively. I am curious as to what led you to the conclusion of Hope being of the Ninja class, though.

 

[Mr Silver]

In regards to Hope, it's simply down to his weapon of choice and I did make it clear that I was basing their job classes on their pre-l'cie abilities.

My interpretation of a "Red Mage" is a physical character who supplements their skills with low to mid-level magic spells. Since Fran has one of the lowest magic stats in the game, yet starts with more offensive magical abilities than the other characters do, I came to the conclusion that she was based upon the Red Mage job. The costume of a character doesn't have to apply when interpreting characters' jobs.

I do agree with most of your list of Job classes, however I'm inclined to disagree with FF7:

Final Fantasy VII/Crisis Core/
Cloud - Mystic Knight
Barett - Gunner
Tifa - Monk
Aeris - Geomancer
Red XIII - Berserker
Cid - Dragoon
Vincent - Gunner
Yuffie - Ninja
Cait Sith - Beastmaster
Zack - Mystic Knight

I'd have said...

Cloud - Warrior/Freelancer
Barrett - Gunner/Freelancer
Tifa - Monk/Gambler/Freelancer
Aeris - White Mage/Freelancer
Red XIII - Beast/Freelancer
Cid - Dragoon/Freelancer
Vincent - Gunner/Berserker/Freelancer
Yuffie - Thief/Ninja/Freelancer
Cait Sith - Puppetmaster/Gambler/Freelancer
Zack - Warrior/Freelancer
Sephiroth - Samurai/Rune Knight/Summoner

Every character with the exception of Sephiroth is fully customisable with materia. hence I've classed each character as a freelancer along with their default abilities.

 

[DigificWriter]

My determinations of the FFVII job classes are actually based on original developer intent. When the game was first being developed, each of the characters were going to have specific predetermined job classes, and my job class determinations were based on what the developers were originally going to do.

I did change the developers' original names for Red XIII (Beast): Cid (Pilot), Tifa (Shooter), Vincent (Horror Teller), and Cait Sith (Toyasaurus), but that was only so that I could use the more traditional names for the job classes into which they were originally intended to fit. The changes were also based, in the case of Red XIII and Vincent, on their in-game characteristics and character roles.

 

[DigificWriter]

Sorry for the double post, but I've put together a License Board Build Guide that lets you set up the characters' License Boards so that they adhere strictly to a particular job class. The classes I chose to use are as follows: Thief (Vaan), Red Mage (Penelo), Gunner (Balthier), Archer (Fran), Knight (Basch) and Paladin (Ashe), and I relied rather heavily on the Zodiac Job System License Board setup from the FFXII International Version, as well as on the Enforced Class Challenge FAQ and another challenge faq that was based on the Zodiac Job System formula.

DigificWriter's Pre-Determined Class License Board Build Guide v1​

Vaan
Class: Thief
Available Licenses:

- Weapons -​

Smallswords
All Daggers
All Ninja Swords
All Katanas

- Armor and Accessories -​

All Light Armors
All Shields
All Accessories

- Techniques -​

1000 Needles
Bonecrusher
First Aid
Gil Toss
Libra
Revive
Shear
Stamp
Steal
Traveler
Telekinesis

- Magic -​

N/A

- Augments -​

+30 HP
+70 HP
+110 HP
+150 HP
+190 HP
+230 HP
+310 HP
+390 HP
+435 HP
Battle Lore
Shield Block
Focus
Last Stand
Spellbound
Brawler
Swiftness
Phoenix Lore
Potion Lore
Remedy Lore

Penelo
Class: Red Mage
Available Licenses:

- Weapons -​

Daggers 1
Swords 1 and 2
All Maces
All Rods
All Staves
All Greatswords​

- Armor and Accessories -​

Light Armor 1
All Shields
All Mystic Armor
All Heavy Armor
All Accessories​

- Techniques -​

Charge
Infuse
Libra
Wither
Achilles
Shades of Black​

- Magic -​

All White Magic
All Black Magic
Green Magic 1 (Protect only), 2 (Shell only), 4 (Oil only), 6, and 7 (Shellga and Protectga only)
All Time Magic
All Arcane Magic​

- Augments -​

Martyr
Chanelling
+110 HP
+190 HP
+230 HP
+270 HP
+435 HP
Magick Lore
Battle Lore
Warmage
Ether Lore
Inquisitor
Spellbreaker
Headsman
Spellbound
Serenity
Swiftness​

Balthier
Class: Gunner
Available Licenses:​

- Weapons -​

All Guns
All Measures
All Hand-bombs​

- Armor and Accessories -​

All Light Armor
Heavy Armor 1
All Accessories​

- Techniques -​

Achilles
Charm
Expose
First Aid
Gil Toss
Horology
Libra
Numerology
Steal
Poach
Stamp
Traveler​

- Magic -​

N/A​

- Augments -​

Phoenix Lore
+30 HP
+70 HP
+110 HP
+150 HP
+190 HP
+230 HP
+270 HP
+310 HP
+350 HP
+390 HP
Spellbound
Remedy Lore
Battle Lore
Potion Lore
Last Stand
Swiftness​

Fran
Class: Archer
Available Licenses:​

- Weapons -​

All Bows
All Crossbows​

- Armor and Accessories -​

Heavy Armor 1
All Light Armor
All Accessories​

- Techniques -​

1000 Needles
Achilles
Addle
Charm
First Aid
Gil Toss
Libra
MP-HP
Poach
Revive
Shades of Black
Shear
Steal
Traveler​

- Magic -​

White Magic 1
Black Magic 1​

- Augments -​

+30 HP
+70 HP
+110 HP
+150 HP
+190 HP
+230 HP
+270 HP
+310 HP
+390 HP
+435 HP
Focus
Battle Lore
Remedy Lore
Phoenix Lore
Magick Lore
Martyr
Inquisitor
Headsman
Potion Lore
Spellbound
Last Stand​

Basch
Class: Knight
Available Licenses:​

- Weapons -​

Smallswords
All Swords
Excalibur
Blood Sword
Tournesol
All Greatswords
All Spears
Dragon Whisker
All Axes​

- Armor and Accessories -​

Light Armor 1
All Heavy Armor
All Shields
All Accessories​

- Techniques -​

Charge
Expose
First Aid
Infuse
Libra
Revive
Shear
Sight Unseeing
Telekinesis​

- Magic -​

White Magic 1 (Cure only), 4, and 5​

- Augments -​

+30 HP
+70 HP
+110 HP
+150 HP
+190 HP
+230 HP
+270 HP
+310 HP
+350 HP
+390 HP
Potion Lore
Battle Lore
Shield Block
Swiftness
Adrenaline
Focus
Last Stand
Spellbound
Gambit Slot​

Ashe
Class: Paladin
Available Licenses:​

- Weapons -​

All Swords
Excalibur
All Spears​

- Armor and Accessories -​

Light Armor 1
All Heavy Armor
All Mystic Armor
All Accessories
All Shields​

- Techniques -​

1000 Needles
Achilles
Addle
Charge
Horology
Numerology
Poach
Shear
Stamp
Telekinesis​

- Magic -​

All White Magic
All Time Magic
Green Magic 1 (Protect only), 2 (Shell only), and 7 (Shellga and Protectga only)
Arcane Magic 3 (Decoy only)​

- Augments -​

Channeling
Serenity
Ether Lore
Spellbound
Swiftness
Magick Lore
+110 HP
+150HP
+190 HP
+230 HP
+270 HP
Battle Lore
Headsman
Inquisitor
Spellbreaker
Martyr
Warmage
Focus​

 

[CorporalClegg]

^
You could just get the international version.

 

[DigificWriter]

^ Actually, you can't. At least not unless you A) want to import it from Japan and B) can understand and read Japanese.

 

[Mr Silver]

The international version, or Final Fantasy XII: International Zodiac Job System as it's known, has probably been hacked into and fully translated by now, given that this version of the game sounds pretty much superior to the original.

 

[Mr Silver]

After playing Final Fantasy XIII for around 70 hours in the past couple of weeks, I've been able to form an idea of each character's place in the job system. This is based on the paradigm roles that they gain first, the rate of stat growth and what roles they excel at:


Pre-l'Cie

Lightning: Warrior/Gunner
Snow: Monk/Grenadier
Hope: Freelancer
Sazh: Gunner

l'Cie

Lightning: Warrior/Gunner/Red Mage/White Mage
Snow: Sentinel/Monk/Red Mage
Hope: Black Mage/White Mage/Oracle
Vanille: Mystic/Black Mage/White Mage
Sazh: Gunner/Oracle/Black Mage/Red Mage
Fang: Dragoon/Sentinel/Mystic


Snow has a ridiculously high HP growth and as a result of this he makes for an ideal Sentinel, his strength and magic growth are very even (like Lightning and Sazh). He's also the only character that can use the magic nulification synthesised ability to it's maximum effect - but only if you plan to use him as a constant Sentinel.

 

[Mr Silver]

I've been trying to think of a reason that would warrant SE making yet another FFVII spin-off. I've thought it might be interesting to document Sephiroth's initial career as a member of SOLDIER and even before he entered the military. Given that Sephy is arguably the most defining character of the franchise, one would assume that SE would want to try and capitalise upon this fact. They've touched upon pretty much every other character in the original game, hell they even had a mobile game in Japan where you played as a member of the Turks!

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those purists who proclaims that "FFVII is the masterpiece of the series" or "the story of FFVII has never been matched" because I think the game has been surpassed with every following game (with the exception of XIV which is just awful), but I will say that the storyline and the characters are among the strongest in the series and this is why SE has kept coming back to it when looking at spin-offs - to the point that they even decided to run with the concept that FFVII and FFX take place in the same universe! (yeah it's a real headscratcher trying to figure that one out!)

I've always been interested by the Sephiroth game mechanics in FFVII. It wound me up when I was younger, because there was no "secret" way of playing as Sephiroth and the only way to do so (gameshark) meant the game would crash anytime the party appeared. I remember spending an hour one day just running around Mt. Nibel during Cloud's flashback and getting into random encounters in order to see how the computer used Sephiroth in different battles. Of course, since this was the first Final Fantasy game I played, I wasn't used to the concept of a guest character.

It wasn't until FFXII that the NPC guest characters made a return to the series, but I don't think any of them have that mystique that Sephiroth did, especially when you are so new to the series and seeing a character with massive stats and 4 digit HP!

I think that if SE ever does make a FFVII remake, that they should include the ability to control Sephiroth in battle! And of course, let him take damage, have limit breaks and fully viewable stats so we can all overanalyse the character!

 

[Sephiroth]

A Sephiroth game would make millions and please fans, which is why S-E will never make one.

 

[DigificWriter]

I'm not a fan of FFVII, but if Square Enix were to redo the game and explicitely connect it and FFX/X-2, they'd definitely change my opinion on it. Making the FFVII game world and Spira one and the same, as opposed to worlds in the same universe, would be beyond awesome because Spira is my second-favorite recurring FF game world behind Ivalice.

 

[Mr Silver]

A Sephiroth game would make millions and please fans, which is why S-E will never make one.

It would certainly sell and attract a lot of attention from fans of the series, but I agree that the likelyhood of SE considering such a thing at the moment is slim. It's probably down to the perception that FFVII has been done to death. Well, it actually hasn't, it's just because it's the most well known game in the series, there are still many stories to tell and the likes of AC, CC and DOC didn't touch on very much at all. Heck, CC just went over everything we knew already from VII, introduced a couple of new characters and did some rewrites just to include another dimension to the story.

Perhaps SE are afraid of being typecast for relying on spin-offs to supplement the development time of the main series?

I'm not a fan of FFVII, but if Square Enix were to redo the game and explicitely connect it and FFX/X-2, they'd definitely change my opinion on it. Making the FFVII game world and Spira one and the same, as opposed to worlds in the same universe, would be beyond awesome because Spira is my second-favorite recurring FF game world behind Ivalice.

Agreed, it would be very interesting to see how they'd explain the connection. I've always gathered that Spira would eventually develop space travel and stumble across "The Planet" from FFVII where they would colonise it and essentially become "The Ancients/Cetra" (because natives of Spira are naturally able to use magic) after a few generations.

Eventually, some of the Cetra would splinter off and mingle with the natives of "The Planet" who were almost genetically identical and therefore compatible to produce offspring. At some point, one of Shinra's ancestors would finally refine the ability to produce energy from the Farplane (or the Lifestream as it's known on "The Planet") and this would lead to the Shinra family essentially running "The Planet".

 

[DigificWriter]

^ The scenario you outline is, at this time, the 'official' stance on how the FFVII and FFX games are connected, but, as I noted, I would much prefer it if Square were to commission a FFVII remake and thereby make it so that Spira and Gaia (AKA The Planet) are one and the same world as opposed to being separate worlds set in the same universe.

Since that's not likely to happen, though, it would be interesting to see if (the 'official' stance notwithstanding) there's a way for Spira and Gaia to be considered one and the same world based on the existing games by trying to match up locations from one set of games with locations from the other set of games.

 

[Sephiroth]

they could always let Sephiroth/Jenova win and sail the planet to Zanarkand

 

[Angel4576]

Personally, I'd prefer VIII-2.

FFVII has been done to death.....

 

[DigificWriter]

I would absolutely LOVE a direct sequel to VIII.

Prompted by Admiral M mentioning the FFVII/DoC/CC and FFX/X-2 connection(s), I started looking into other connections between games in the FF series, and discovered an intriguing theory that connects FFVII/DoC/CC and FFXIII/XIII-2. The theory basically says that Jenova could've been a Fal'Cie. Even if I'm not a fan of FVII, I really like the idea of possibly connecting it to XIII/XIII-2 because it would also connect XIII/XIII-2 to FFX/X-2, which would be neat since I really liked XIII.

I also discovered a theory about possible connections between FFVI and FFX/X-2 that basically postulates that the events of FFX/X-2 could've been the War of the Magi referenced in VI.

As a big fan of 'shared worlds', I really like the idea that there could be multiple games in the FF franchise taking place on the same world or in the same continuity as one another, and am actually going to attempt at some point to create a fictional history for a single cohesive universe for FFVI, VII/DoC/CC, X/X-2, and XIII/XIII-2.

 

[Kelthaz]

What we realy need is a FFVI-2.

The world is in ruins with millions killed by the Empire and the god Kefka. Magic has been removed from the world and the peoples of the world are struggling to rebuild their civilization. Will the remnants of the Returners and the Empire work together to forge a golden age of peace or will their former struggles doom them to continue the war now that the greater threat of Kefka is gone? The story is just begging for a continuation.

 

[Mr Silver]

@DigificWriter: I've actually been thinking about how the worlds could all be connected together. There are some suggestions that each gameworld is connected with one another in Dissidia, of course what happens in the Dissidia has nothing to do with the continunity of the main series.

Some people have suggested that the various Summon monsters are the key, given that many of them are recurring and frequently bare a similar design as their previous counterparts. The theory, that Shiva for instance is the same entity in each game that it has appeared is based upon the concept that the Summons/Eidolons/Espers exist in a seperate dimension and when summoned they materialise in the respective gameworld in a set form for that world. It's also hinted at in FFVIII, when Gilgamesh mentions something about the "dimensional interval".

That brings me onto my next point, I've been thinking about the possibility of a VIII and XIII connection. This theory is made much more interesting with the fact that XIII-2 revolves around the concept of time travel (just like VIII). I started to think about how VIII would be set farthest in the future where the Fal'Cie are all but extinct and the legends of the "Maker" have evolved into the legends of the "Great Hyne".

The Sorceress would be a kind of L'Cie, who recieves the powers of a dying L'Cie or one who finds a way to give up their power. I then started to think about the possibility of Cocoon being infested with monsters and being launched into space as an artificial moon at some point - thereby becoming the monster colony in VIII. The Lunar Pillar could be a Fal'Cie and the GF's could be an offshot of the Fal'Cie that form a symbiotic relationship with humans allowing them the ability to use magic without being a Sorceress/L'Cie.

This could be done, given that Gran Pulse hasn't fully been explored as a planet and things could change at some point - VIII could be set several hundred thousand years in the future where humanity has recovered from a catastrophe that has set them back further than their forerunners from XIII.

@Kelthaz: As long as they properly translated the game ("I am Atma, I am pure energy" was just awful) and didn't leave in gamebreakers such as vanish+doom/xzone then I would be game for a VI-2. It could be really hard to pull off without magic though...

 

[DigificWriter]

I still need to work out specific details, but I've got a preliminary idea of how the games I mentioned previously would have to line up chronologically in order to occupy the same universe and/or take place on the same world:
FFX > FFX-2 > FFVI > CC > FFVII > DoC > FFXIII > FFXIII-2

Admiral M, I've not heard of anyone else out there trying to draw connections between FFVIII and FFXIII/XIII-2, so your theory is interesting. While we're on the subject of connections, though, I would like to point out that there is a connection of sorts between FFVIII and FFIII in that both games include a mention of a person called Hyne (as you alluded to in your hypothesis).

The 'Eidolon Theory' you mention also gets a mention on the Final Fantasy Wiki (which is also the source for the other connections/possible connections I mentioned), but I don't know how I feel about it.

 

[Sephiroth]

I don't think it's so much time travel as its interdimensional travel, truth is that all Final Fantasies are going on all at the same time, either that or Gilgamesh is immortal