Poll The Cage or The Menagerie

[ZapBrannigan]

The Asherman Compendium (first published 1981) did not include shooting date information.

Not the exact-day dates, but The Star Trek Compendium 1st ed. did provide rough (but correct) filming dates in the form of "Filmed in mid-November, 1967" or "Filmed in late June and early July, 1966." I'm making those up, but the book provides a notation like that for every episode, and they check out whenever you compare them to clapboard photos.

 

[J.T.B.]

^Huh. My 1986 copy doesn't have anything like that.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

^Huh. My 1986 copy doesn't have anything like that.

The one with the blue cover is the first edition. That's what I have.

 

[mb22]

The 1st edition is much better than the later ones.

 

[Lance]

Incidentally, I am currently working on a fan edit / mashup of The Menagerie and The Cage, with my idea being to present it as though it were a theatrically released 'movie' from 1966 ala the way the Adam West version of Batman had a theatrical film that was more or less in complete continuity with the series, and came to theaters between seasons. This mashup includes new 1960s style movie titles and end credits to more fully sell the concept of it being a movie outside of the series (but within it's continuity), as well as featuring more of the footage excised from The Menagerie but present in The Cage, cropping it to letterbox ratio to give it a 'released in theaters' feel, and adding in a few other features to make the whole thing feel more theatrical and big, such as select effects shots from other episodes (including some of the alternate establishing shots of Starbase 11 from "Court Martial").

The project is pretty much for my own amusement and is about 30% done at present, but I'm enjoying the process of editing it together so far. It really feels like it could have been released this way originally. Maybe the lure of it being a theatrical movie might have enticed Hunter back to reprise Captain Pike in a bigger guest role than the character-in-a-chair-going-beep we get in the original?

 

[Henoch]

Maybe the lure of it being a theatrical movie might have enticed Hunter back to reprise Captain Pike in a bigger guest role than the character-in-a-chair-going-beep we get in the original?

If we got Hunter back for the Menagerie, then I would give him much less facial/head deformity, and let him speak and act from the chair (but maybe he gets tried/fatigued easily forcing him to pass out a lot and act feeble). I'd give him more emotional scenes with Spock and Pike on having Spock not sacrificing his life just to give Pike a comfortable life which at this point he still rejects, and later, having Pike come to the acceptance that a final life with Vina will be a gift of love for both him and her.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Incidentally, I am currently working on a fan edit / mashup of The Menagerie and The Cage, with my idea being to present it as though it were a theatrically released 'movie' from 1966 ala the way the Adam West version of Batman had a theatrical film that was more or less in complete continuity with the series, and came to theaters between seasons. This mashup includes new 1960s style movie titles and end credits to more fully sell the concept of it being a movie outside of the series (but within it's continuity), as well as featuring more of the footage excised from The Menagerie but present in The Cage, cropping it to letterbox ratio to give it a 'released in theaters' feel, and adding in a few other features to make the whole thing feel more theatrical and big, such as select effects shots from other episodes (including some of the alternate establishing shots of Starbase 11 from "Court Martial").

The project is pretty much for my own amusement and is about 30% done at present, but I'm enjoying the process of editing it together so far. It really feels like it could have been released this way originally. Maybe the lure of it being a theatrical movie might have enticed Hunter back to reprise Captain Pike in a bigger guest role than the character-in-a-chair-going-beep we get in the original?

Nice idea!

I have a wide screen edit of The Menagerie which someone did, cleaning up the print, and removing some of Spock's character inconsistencies from the flashback segment.

I also have a version where someone added in all footage from The Cage and altered the final moments of The Menagerie to be on the bridge viewscreen instead.

I am working on a hybrid of the two - removing some of Spock's inconsistencies, as well as adding in more footage, but not all of it, especially some of the sexism like the females on the bridge scene where Pike calls Number One 'different'. Also, I have the complete b/w Cage workprint, so am re-adding in some deleted dialogue and re-integrating the original music from The Cage which in places was altered when re-structured as the two-parter.

 

[Timo]

...I still don't quite get this "sexism" thing here. Pike seems to be shy about women, getting all tongue-tied and clumsy. How is that sexist? Except in stereotypically ridiculing men, of course.

The more of that, the better the version of the Talosian adventure. After all, this is more or less the very point, the core of Pike's character (or at least his mental state during that adventure). Without it, there would be no story.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Methuselah Flint]

...I still don't quite get this "sexism" thing here. Pike seems to be shy about women, getting all tongue-tied and clumsy. How is that sexist? Except in stereotypically ridiculing men, of course.

The more of that, the better the version of the Talosian adventure. After all, this is more or less the very point, the core of Pike's character (or at least his mental state during that adventure). Without it, there would be no story.

Timo Saloniemi

I don't dispute that at all. I guess because of the context of the time, we all know what was *really* being inferred from a 1960s framing. In-universe, and retrospectively the shyness of Pike works absolutely fine. But unfortunately we have to remember that at the time, the comment probably was nothing to do with that.

 

[J.T.B.]

If we got Hunter back for the Menagerie, then I would give him much less facial/head deformity, and let him speak and act from the chair (but maybe he gets tried/fatigued easily forcing him to pass out a lot and act feeble).

Surely Pike's injured condition was a direct result of not having Jeffrey Hunter playing the part. If he had come back to guest on the series, I'd guess the plot would have been much different.

 

[Henoch]

Surely Pike's injured condition was a direct result of not having Jeffrey Hunter playing the part. If he had come back to guest on the series, I'd guess the plot would have been much different.

Without his crippling condition, then there's no story.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Without his crippling condition, then there's no story.

Indeed, for the crippled Pike story we got. But as J. T. B. points out, had Hunter returned, then the story using the flashback material would be completely different. Who knows? Maybe Pike may have sat round a bar and recalled events to Kirk at a Starfleet gathering? We got a crippled Pike story because Hunter wasn't wanting to return, thus this story was developed. Unless there is any documentation to the contrary, I suspect the crippled Pike was a result of the no-Hunter factor, rather than the other way round.

 

[Henoch]

We got a crippled Pike story because Hunter wasn't wanting to return, thus this story was developed.

When Roddenberry came up with the two-part story, I don't think he ever tried to bring Hunter back. Any data on this part of the back-story?

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Ah my apologies. I thought he asked Hunter who declined, and thus bringing back Pike had to be done differently.

 

[Harvey]

When Hunter was released from his contract, they made a deal to pay him $1,000 per day, subject to Hunter's availability, in connection with shooting new scenes for a theatrical release of the first pilot.

The deal did not make any arrangements for new scenes if the pilot material was used as part of the series, but it did require him to receive "Special Guest Star" billing if it was used as part of the series.

According to Inside Star Trek: The Real Story (Herbert Solow & Robert Justman, 1996): "A year earlier, Jeffrey Hunter had rebuffed Roddenberry's request to shoot added scenes to lengthen the pilot and attempt to get a theatrical release for it. There was no way Hunter would cooperate to redo it for a television episode." (p.251)

I think their memory that Hunter rebuffed the theatrical release request is somewhat incorrect (Hunter agreed to a rate for additional shooting in the case of a theatrical release), but the "envelope" as it was called was always written with an invalid, non-speaking version of Pike. Even John D.F. Black's abandoned attempt at the envelope, called "From The First Day To The Last," had Pike in a wheelchair unable to speak.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Ah right, thanks for that. Yes I have read From the First Day to the Last. I assumed that invalid Pike was decided after an attempt to ask Hunter back, rather than always being the case.

 

[Methuselah Flint]

I'm also curious if there are any documents with Roddenberry's idea of what extra scenes he was hoping to add to extend the pilot to movie length.

I've heard people speak of the crash of the Columbia, and of a scene with Pike inspecting crewmen after the Rigel mission (or was this a scene originally to be in the pilot?), but nothing concrete that Roddenberry had thought of to be included.

 

[Harvey]

Yes I have read From the First Day to the Last.

Both parts?

 

[Methuselah Flint]

Both parts?

I thought I had read the whole script. Are there two parts?

 

[Maurice]

I thought I had read the whole script. Are there two parts?

"The Menagerie" is in two parts, ergo...