THE CAGE is coming to TOSR!!!!

[Lieut. Arex]

Inclusion in the official timeline at Roddenberry's insistence, the various TAS references in DS9 and ENT, as well as the DVD release, say otherwise.

Since, as I understand it, it was GENE who, around the time of the first movie, declared TAS no longer a part of the timeline, what "official timeline" do you mean, and where did you hear he "insisted" on it being included?

Actually, it was around the time of TNG that GR and/or Richard Arnold requested TAS not be considered canon, meaning its events need not be taken into account when writing new scripts, etc. That's no great shock as GR was tossing aside chunks of ST at the same time and tightening down across the board on what Trek was in order to shape TNG as he saw best. At the time of TMP, GR was still speaking favorably about TAS as evidenced by his comments in The Making of Star Trek - The Motion Picture. The series wasn't every thing he hoped it might be but he still felt it was a worthy effort. Why else would he have suggested, as has been mentioned on this board, Majel make a cameo as M'ress in TMP (she balked at the make-up)? In 1979 and until 1987,TAS was a much Trek as anything else.

By the way, I agree with the others. Certain "historical" incidents being mentioned onscreen that happen to be in step with TAS don't make ALL of TAS canon. 'Sorry. It doesn't work that way.'

TAS may not be canon, as Paramount defines it ("keep this in mind while you're writing"), but neither is it officially excluded from the continuity, as evidenced by the numerous mentions in subsequent series. TAS can easily fit into the overall Trek continuity since that covers "Stuff that happens in the episodes and, by and large, is never spoken of again" as there are only a few points of conflict and only one truly major one (TFF versus "The Magicks of Megas-Tu").

The two sides of this debate are need to learn to live and let live. Those with a less than favorable view of TAS have to acknowledge it aired and has had a lasting influence, to a greater or lesser degree, on Trek overall. The stories are no sillier than some shown in live-action episodes ("Spock's Brain", "One Little Ship", "Innocence") and several are very strong. Being a TV series produced by D.C. Fontana, supervised by GR, featuring the original cast, and with episodes written by many ST scriptwriters, it deserves not a little respect. The intent was definitely that the show was Star Trek.

Likewise, the TAS advocates must accept the series has a rushed and rough quality that impacts the stories and more significantly, the animation. That presentation is off-putting to many who simply can't see past it. Its official status, alternately rejected and tolerated by the production staffs and CBSmount PTB, is always going to depend on who's in charge and it will never have the full credibility of the live shows with a significant portion of the fandom. Unless and until a production team comes along that is willing to embrace and explicitly include it as part of the greater whole, the chances of which are increasingly remote, TAS will remain the bastard red-headed stepchild of Trek productions.

 

[32JaX]

I saw it a couple of years ago in the theater when they released the DVDs. I like the remastered version, but I have to say Menagerie was better use of the footage.

 

[Praetor]

I saw it this evening. I actually didn't mind most of the cuts that much. If I hadn't been fond of the original I wouldn't have known what I'd missed. Most of what was lacking seemed to be character moments related to the Pike-era crew.

 

[Cyrus]

I just saw it. This is the first time I have seen the cut syndicated version. Some of the cuts I didn't mind, like shortening the agonizingly long transporter stuff.

The smiling Spock didn't make the cut either. But I was really disappointed that "THE WOMEN!!" scene was cut. I have been waiting for months to see the remastered version of that.

 

[Praetor]

I actually expected smiling Spock to get cut. I was disappointed that 'THE WOMEN!' didn't make it and I was hoping I had just missed hearing it.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Whoever "Geen [sic] Freaking Roddenberry" was.

The Mirror Universe Roddenberry. Don't you watch Star Trek?

In any event, Paramount doesn't recognize it

They sure recognized my money when I bought it...

- and certainly not April - as part of the official continuity for Star Trek, and that's a good thing. "The Counter-Clock Incident" - like about three-quarters of TAS - is a very bad, very childish story

Three quarters? You're being a tad hard on it. Out of 22 episodes, about half would have made fine live action episodes. The rest are "okay" to "jeezus."

I love how the basic dilemma of Counter Clock was used in TNG, and the Terratin Incident in DS9, yet these are not erased from the "canon". There have been episodes of every live action incarnation of Trek just as bad, and some times worse, than what TAS aired. And they had more money, more time and fewer restrictions. I swear, if TAS was not a cartoon, this discussion wouldn't exist. It shouldn't matter, not if the original cast producers and writers were involved.

Christopher Pike is the first captain of the Enterprise, as he always should have been.

Not according to the Star Trek Encyclopedia, which I don't consider nearly as important as some folks, but it does show that people are aware of the Robert April character.

Pike was simply the captain before Kirk and there's nothing in the "oh so revered canon" that says he was anything but just the prior skipper. They go go so far to tell us that Pike is Kirk's age at the point we first see him in The Menagerie. That would make him about 23 or 24 in The Cage then. Hmmm... Actually, though, it was pretty well accepted that April was the first captain. Paramount had no problem with it when some novels were written with that in mind.

Really, there's no evidence to support half of the fan assumptions about the timeline or characters. Whether it's about Pike's place in the captain line up (first? second?), Gary Mitchell being first officer before Spock or whether Where No Man is in the five year mission or before it, which is nuts to me.

"Hey Jim, welcome back from that trip waaaay out to the edge of the Galaxy. NOW you can start your Five Year Mission. That was just practice."

WTF???

It's all arbitrary, "canon" is BS. Roddenberry had an itch one day and decided TAS didn't count. Well, he's dead now, so who cares what he said when he was in a bad mood or tripping on weed or rewriting Trek history to suit his needs? Paramount can turn around and say "no other Trek happened before the Abrams film" and I'm sure some people would lock step and agree. "Paramount says so, so it's true." Enterprise made TAS official and not "some of it" for chrissake, not just the "good" episodes - it's either all or nothing. Just like The Way to Eden and And The Children Shall Lead are official.

I love how people pick and choose what aired show was official decades after the fact. If you consider a show part of the continuity, then fine. If not, fine. It doesn't matter anyway. That's better than making stuff up without on screen evidence to support it. That is just crazy.

 

[Broccoli]

Being a fan of the Capt. April mystique, I refuse to let a promo suggest that he never existed. To delve into a nonsense conversation, are new promo voice overs for episodes over 40 years old now canon? As far as I am concerned, while there is nothing to suggest that April existed, there is nothing to suggest that April never existed either.

Now all we need is a good reason for Starfleet to have wanted Kirk to comand the barrier mission and a 'why' for when it took place when it did...

I bet it was the only ship in range. That tends to happen a lot with ships named Enterprise.

RE: The Cage

I liked the new shots. They looked cool. Like others, I was disappointed that they cut the "THE WOMEN!" line from the syndicated version.

As Warped9 pointed out, there was no reference to NX-01. I doubted they would show anything like that during the computer sequence. The concept would be neat as "fan-wink, but it would be too jarring, with ENT being produced nearly 40 years after the episode initially was. Kinda like how I feel about the Vanguard-style spacestation showing up in TOS-R. I don't care how cool of a design it is, it just feels off.

Along those same lines, I am kinda disappointed with the fact that they included historical footage from stuff past 1965. I realize that it was key stuff, with the moon landing and what not, but it just feels a bit off. That stuff didn't happen when the episode was produced. From a historical perspective, referenince stuff that "hadn't happened yet" feels off. I know it's a small thing (and it doesn't detract from the episode).

 

[cooleddie74]

Hey, for all we know Robert April is mentioned or even seen briefly in the new movie. Maybe he's the Starfleet officer who helps spearhead the Constitution-class/Enterprise construction program? Sort of a compromise? Not the first captain, but still existing and a mover and shaker in the Enterprise's existence.

 

[N-121973]

Along those same lines, I am kinda disappointed with the fact that they included historical footage from stuff past 1965. I realize that it was key stuff, with the moon landing and what not, but it just feels a bit off. That stuff didn't happen when the episode was produced. From a historical perspective, referenince stuff that "hadn't happened yet" feels off. I know it's a small thing (and it doesn't detract from the episode).

I take the opposite view, I think its great to put those post '65 references into the search. Had they still had the list of presidents come up, I would have had it go up at least as far as Bush, maybe if the episode was completed post November, Obama. I also would have chocked it full of historical Trek and real-life references like NX-01, like the shuttle Enterprise, a picture of the twin towers on 9/11, the picture of Khan from Space Seed that was on the Enterprise's records. Ditto Kodos the Executioner, Nomad and Jackson Roykirk. All as a sort of in-reference.

 

[QuasarVM]

In any event, Paramount doesn't recognize it

They sure recognized my money when I bought it...

Funny, they always seem to recognize that -- don't they? And sometimes they recognize it over...and over...and over again -- albeit for the same products that have been repackaged or reformatted.

 

[Captain Robert April]

So, TAS is in, then?

 

[Praetor]

It seems like 'The Infinite Vulcan,' 'The Magicks of Megas-Tu' and 'The Counter-Clock Incident' are the two that get most of the evil eye that keeps TAS from canonity.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

It seems like 'The Infinite Vulcan,' 'The Magicks of Megas-Tu' and 'The Counter-Clock Incident' are the two that get most of the evil eye that keeps TAS from canonity.

But why? Being canonical isn't a mark of quality or consistency. If it were Spock's Brain and The Alternative Factor's canon status would be in question...

 

[cooleddie74]

It seems like 'The Infinite Vulcan,' 'The Magicks of Megas-Tu' and 'The Counter-Clock Incident' are the two that get most of the evil eye that keeps TAS from canonity.

"Magicks" in particular because of its inconsistent and oddly-too-low stardate(1254)which would seem to place it closer to the start of Kirk's five-year mission and "WNMHGB", yet the crew all wear the later/standard TOS uniforms, Gary Mitchell's nowhere to be found, Bones is there and its obviously set later than the pilots.

 

[Praetor]

It seems like 'The Infinite Vulcan,' 'The Magicks of Megas-Tu' and 'The Counter-Clock Incident' are the two that get most of the evil eye that keeps TAS from canonity.

But why? Being canonical isn't a mark of quality or consistency. If it were Spock's Brain and The Alternative Factor's canon status would be in question...

I tend to agree. It was more an observation than a personal opinion.

 

[Tan Ru]

The Cage Remastered was already on the TOS-R DVD boxed sets, Disc 7 of Third Season set.

Why is everyone talking about it as if it were just now released?

Or have I missed a remastered remaster??

 

[GSchnitzer]

The Cage Remastered was already on the TOS-R DVD boxed sets, Disc 7 of Third Season set.

Why is everyone talking about it as if it were just now released?

Or have I missed a remastered remaster??

I think the remastered "Cage" is getting some heavy discussion the past day or so because this remastered version of "The Cage" was actually finally aired in syndication this past week--for the first time. Many people hadn't seen this remastered "Cage" until this past week even though it's been available on DVD for months.

 

[gastrof]

The Cage Remastered was already on the TOS-R DVD boxed sets, Disc 7 of Third Season set.

Why is everyone talking about it as if it were just now released?

Or have I missed a remastered remaster??

Did you read my opening post, or even the title of the thread?

 

[Tan Ru]

The Cage Remastered was already on the TOS-R DVD boxed sets, Disc 7 of Third Season set.

Why is everyone talking about it as if it were just now released?

Or have I missed a remastered remaster??

I think the remastered "Cage" is getting some heavy discussion the past day or so because this remastered version of "The Cage" was actually finally aired in syndication this past week--for the first time. Many people hadn't seen this remastered "Cage" until this past week even though it's been available on DVD for months.

I see now. Thank you.

The topic header mentions something about a two-parter on some cable station but nothing about the DVD boxed set, etc.

Yes, I loved this re-mastered episode. The Cage (re-mastered or not) has been a favorite of mine for quite some time............

 

[WalkinMan]

Just saw "The Cage," TOSR, and liked it...although it was cut short, we at least have many of the scenes from "The Menagerie" -- watching both I like the sharper colors of the original pilot; the viewscreen versions in the other ep were a bit faded out. And it would've been great to have also seen a TOS season 0 with Captain Pike and the gang.