The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McNally

[137th Gebirg]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

You're missing the fact that none of that matters.

Brady has been tried and convicted in the Court of Public Opinion. Stick a fork in him - he's done. His reputation has been irrevocably tarnished, and it's gone way past rational discourse on the subject from both sides of the argument. It probably wouldn't be so bad if "Tapegate" hadn't happened not too long ago, but it's still fresh in people's minds.

Even if I did agree with any of those points (which I don't, not all of them anyway) it still wouldn't change the fact that a large number of people want to see him flame out because:

• Their favorite team got demolished by Brady and the Patriots and want payback (lots of these people out there, no doubt)
• Brady is a freudenschade factory and people love watching celebrities get their asses handed to them
• Justify all you like, it was patently STUPID of Brady to destroy a phone at the EXACT SAME TIME during an investigation where the content of his texts would have been called into question. If it really is a "standard thing" to do, wait one day, moron (Brady I mean, not anyone here)! It's PERCEPTION you need to worry about - NOT reality!

Just let it go, like he needs to. He continues to push back too hard, he might find that it would incite more people to dig more dirt up on him that could be used to destroy him for good. The blood's in the water and I'm sure there are sharks circling out there. There is a point of diminishing returns in this "strategy" he's pursuing.

 

[Timby]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Brady's denial (the first time he's ever actually denied doing anything wrong, incidentally) is just kind of hilarious on how he's tripling down on everything. On what fucking planet does "Oh, I didn't know destroying evidence would get me in trouble" count as a valid defense? Just own it, dude.

 

[Tom Servo]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

I can't wait till this suspension is knocked down to zero in a federal court. It will be wonderful.

At this point, clear your name dude. Who gives a crap if the fans of other teams don't like you.

 

[Timby]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

I can't wait till this suspension is knocked down to zero in a federal court.

Brady has little to no chance of succeeding on the merits; because of the nature of arbitration, a federal court would essentially have to rule "Goodell got it wrong," and this is unlikely first because courts are historically reluctant to do, and second because Goodell's opinion was very meticulous and written to withstand scrutiny.

Considering Brady offered to take a one-game suspension in exchange for the records being sealed, it's clear even he knows he got caught.

 

[Garak]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

At first it was the Pats that looked bad in how they handled this, but now the league just looks terrible. Terrible.

I wouldn't be surprised if Goodell loses his job over this. Between this and a couple of other things he's bungled (the Ray Rice video comes to mind), it hasn't exactly been a banner couple of years for him.

When they lose in court - and they will, there's no smoking gun here - the league will have wasted so much time and money on something that the average, intelligent fan doesn't care about. I mean deflated footballs, for crying out loud.

Brady's legacy, of course, will remain intact.

 

[Timby]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

When they lose in court - and they will, there's no smoking gun here

That doesn't matter, because the only matter a federal court can determine is whether the league acted in accordance with its CBA. The CBA specifies Goodell as the ruling party in arbitration, so Brady's argument that Goodell wasn't a neutral party is meaningless. While there's no smoking gun, there is a mountain of circumstantial evidence as well as the added spoliation factor, and that's something that absolutely will be on a judge's mind.

And again, courts are historically very reluctant to overturn labor arbitration decisions. And since this case will be heard in New York, not in Massachusetts or in front of Judge Doty in Minnesota, Brady doesn't have the advantage of going in front of a friendly court.

 

[Garak]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

They'll lose in court.

 

[Timby]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

They'll lose in court.

On what grounds? Brady has no real argument. This isn't like the Peterson thing, where he received punishment under a policy that wasn't in effect at the time of his offense. What part of "arbitration is intended to be final, and courts don't like to intervene in arbitration" is flying past you?

 

[Scout101]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Maybe the part where the rule being applied wasn't applicable to players as written, or that the actual punishment for tampering with the balls is (in the rules) a 25k fine for the team. Or could argue precedent, as in teams have tampered with balls ON CAMERA during a game and just got a 'knock it off' letter. Or make it about not cooperating, and Favre got a 50k fine for not turning over his phone. Which way do you want to argue that Brady's punishment was a tad unprecedented and over the top per the rules and previous examples? Nothing in that section has anything to do with players, so can make an argument that a 4 game suspension is probably a tad over the top and doesn't play in those rules. Brady isn't a repeat offender either, don't recall his name being brought up in Spygate. (we can play the whole "no one actually understand Spygate in the first place and it was ANOTHER overblown and under-understood issue, but that's another argument)

If they give back the draft picks, the million dollars, the 4 game suspension, and apologize, I'd bet Tom would even cover the 25k for Kraft

 

[Garak]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

They'll lose in court.

On what grounds? Brady has no real argument.

Brady's argument is that there's no proof he did anything wrong. And he's right.

If you can lay out solid proof for everyone here that Brady was complicit in this we'd all love to hear it.

 

[Timby]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

They'll lose in court.

On what grounds? Brady has no real argument.

Brady's argument is that there's no proof he did anything wrong. And he's right.

And that's not anything that a court can or would actually take into consideration, because all Brady can sue for is to ask the court to overturn the arbitrator's decision -- which never happens. That's the whole point of the arbitration system in a joint bargaining environment: Brady received a punishment, he appealed it, the CBA says that Goodell can be the arbiter, he was, he upheld the punishment. No court is going to step in and say, "Whoa, hey, do-over there, guys," because of precedent.

Here, read this.

 

[137th Gebirg]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

If you can lay out solid proof for everyone here that Brady was complicit in this we'd all love to hear it.

They don't need it. At best, this will be a civil action. Which means the burden of proof is simply a "preponderance of evidence", not "beyond the shadow of any doubt", as is criteria for a criminal trial. If enough evidence, even circumstantial, is brought to bear on such a case, Brady is likely to loose. The fact that the investigation came up with his telling his assistant "to destroy the phone so that no one can ever, you know, reset it or do something where the information is available to anyone." (based on this CNN article) would be enough for any jury or judge to deflate Mr. Brady's balls even further.

He's painting himself into a corner he won't be able to get out of if he keeps this up. I personally have no problem with him unknowingly committing ritual Sepuku in front of the whole country, but my God, at least don't make it look so damn easy!

 

[Tom Servo]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Maybe the part where the rule being applied wasn't applicable to players as written, or that the actual punishment for tampering with the balls is (in the rules) a 25k fine for the team. Or could argue precedent, as in teams have tampered with balls ON CAMERA during a game and just got a 'knock it off' letter. Or make it about not cooperating, and Favre got a 50k fine for not turning over his phone. Which way do you want to argue that Brady's punishment was a tad unprecedented and over the top per the rules and previous examples? Nothing in that section has anything to do with players, so can make an argument that a 4 game suspension is probably a tad over the top and doesn't play in those rules. Brady isn't a repeat offender either, don't recall his name being brought up in Spygate. (we can play the whole "no one actually understand Spygate in the first place and it was ANOTHER overblown and under-understood issue, but that's another argument)

If they give back the draft picks, the million dollars, the 4 game suspension, and apologize, I'd bet Tom would even cover the 25k for Kraft

This. 100% this. How people can't see this, beyond just a blind hatred of Brady and the Patriots, I don't understand.

 

[Jedi_Master]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Hard to find the Patriots fans in this thread.

Patriot's first four games: Pittsburgh at home, at Buffalo, Jacksonville at home, then at Dallas.

Pretty easy to see them going 2-2 before the return of the Brady.

Tom Brady will be 38 during the 2015-2016 season, so sitting him four games (plus the bye week) will likely be a boon to his overall health, especially as there will be four less opportunities for an opponent to inflict a season ending injury.

Considering the fact that the Pats have been picking in the 25th+ range during the first round, that's not a terrible loss, particularly if the org can trade up to a high second round pick.

All things considered the Evil Empire will probably win the division (again) or at least get a wild card spot before the rather refreshed and revived Brady leads them to the AFC championship or Super Bowl.

Brady's legacy is safe and when he is standing in his rather handsome yellow blazer, very few articles will include the "DeflateGate" nonsense.

 

[Garak]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

On what grounds? Brady has no real argument.

Brady's argument is that there's no proof he did anything wrong. And he's right.

And that's not anything that a court can or would actually take into consideration, because all Brady can sue for is to ask the court to overturn the arbitrator's decision -- which never happens. That's the whole point of the arbitration system in a joint bargaining environment: Brady received a punishment, he appealed it, the CBA says that Goodell can be the arbiter, he was, he upheld the punishment. No court is going to step in and say, "Whoa, hey, do-over there, guys," because of precedent.

Here, read this.

Well, getting away from how shitty your judicial and arbitration system is in that someone can be punished on circumstantial evidence, the link you gave sort of lost me at this:

second, Goodell produced a decision on Brady that is brilliantly reasoned, meticulously detailed, and well-written.

C'mon man.

Obviously the feds don't want to turn over an arbitrator's decision, but it has happened before - if say "an egregious error by the NFL arbitrator -- the application of a new and harsher penalty to an incident that occurred before the adoption of the new penalty" as per your article referencing the overturning of Peterson's case.

Here's a list of points Brady could use:

Owner influence: If the NFLPA can present evidence that other NFL team owners tried, in any way, to pressure Goodell to uphold the full suspension, it should present it clearly. That would constitute clear partiality by Goodell, and the threat of dragging 31 owners to issue sworn affadavits might make them queasy.

Going after Goodell: The union asked for the commissioner to recuse himself from the hearing, and that was denied. Goodell's way of circumventing this was by arguing it was Troy Vincent who handed down the punishment initially, but the union might try to show how much of a farce that was. As if Goodell had no input? Sure.

Equipment rules: NFL guidelines for handling equipment (including those pesky deflated balls) indicate that team personnel — not players — are ultimately the ones responsible, and thus punishable. Not Brady. In essence, Brady got fined for something he wasn't able to get fined for, so their argument might go.

Established precedent: There is none. The CBA outlines fines, suspensions and punishments for all kinds of misdeeds. There's nothing in there about ordering balls deflated — if Brady even is guilty of that — and thus Goodell was going off script. Way off script, in fact, akin to what Greg Hardy did. Apples, oranges, all that, but you can see how the argument would be borne here. The Minnesota Vikings were caught tampering with balls with a hair dryer during games and were given a slap on the wrist — a $20,000 fine. Pair that with what Brady and the Patriots received, and you can see where they feel there's injustice.

About that guilt: Nowhere in Ted Wells' report — the 243-page, $5 million epic — does it say Brady was guilty unequivocally. That's a problem. The term "generally aware" has been a laughable point as it relates to burden of proof, and rightfully so, and it might be a main talking point in the NFLPA's case. Brady's lawyers will come out swinging at what they believe to be a sham of an investigation that proves no guilt for his client.

About those balls: Yes, the rulebook states that balls must be between 12.5 and 13.5 psi before games (a rule that has existed since the 1930s), but nowhere in there does it account for pressure loss, explainable by the Ideal Gas Law, which you surely have committed to memory by now. So NFL officials measuring balls at halftime of a cold January night might render wildly different results from, say, a preseason game in August.

There's ways around it I think. Even OJ won.

 

[Tom Servo]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Here is another great argument from the investigator in the Pete Rose case, John Dowd:

http://www.foxbusiness.com/industri...gator-says-tom-brady-was-ambushed-by-goodell/

And honestly, the reaction of the hosts on the show, are precisely the reason that Patriots fans have been getting so frustrated about this whole thing. They bring on an expert witness, in order to provide some information, and the moment that he starts saying that GUESS WHAT, BRADY MAY HAVE DONE JACK SHIT, the hosts start rolling their eyes and try to argue his reasoning. I mean look at their reactions. Honestly, I feel like people don't want this to end with the truth, they want this with Brady being punished because they don't like him.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

He already gave up the numbers and names for every text message in the relevant period, so could always check with the other party for any one in particular. He got a signed letter from Verizon saying they couldn't recover the SMS messages, so not sure what you think a subpoena would do.

I don't get it anyway. They think he's texting things to these other two guys, and want his phone to prove it. But since they already have THEIR phones, how do they think text messages work? Conversation is on both phones...

I agree with you that there's no way to subpoena them this late out. I can say that from experience. On the other hand, I don't think they gain nothing from getting Brady's phone since I can't only surmise that they were deleted off of the other party's phones.

I can't wait till this suspension is knocked down to zero in a federal court. It will be wonderful.

I know very little about this area of law, but those who do say Brady's chances are slim to none. If it's governed under the American Arbitration Act (which I'm guessing it is based on all the references to an arbiter), what I do know tells me there's no chance. The AAA is almost conclusively deferential to the arbiter (in other words, the arbiter's decision will almost always be upheld).

I frankly don't think there is proof by preponderance of the evidence. There's certainly reasons to suspect his culpability, but I wouldn't say he's probably guilty based on what we've seen (that being said, in civil contexts, failure to answer questions and destroying of potential evidence can both create inferences that the evidence was unfavorable to you and the NFL certainly has both of those). But a court will say that the collectively bargained agreement required the arbiter to make that determination.

 

[Corran Horn]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Fuck Brady, Goodell, and Pete Rose.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Goodell's ruling has nothing to do with the actual specifics of the case. It's basically one big 'RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!'

 

[137th Gebirg]

Re: The Assassination of Brady's Legacy By the Fat Coward Deflator McN

Fuck Brady, Goodell, and Pete Rose.

Don't forget Belichick!