The Animated Series

[The Overlord]

Again, why are you assuming a revamp of the 70s cartoon would be a bigger hit then new animated series, that would more targeted to audiences today?

Think of it this way: two of the most popular episodes of Deep Space Nine ("Trials and Tribble-ations") and Enterprise (the two-part "In a Mirror, Darkly") were tributes/flashbacks to TOS episodes or situations. They were produced for modern audiences (1996 & 2005), and it would be a gross understatement to say they were met showered with praise.



The lesson here is that if the audiences of 1996 & 2005 loved trips back to TOS--after being exposed to all of the modern sci-fi TV & movies of their respective eras--yet still found themselves engaged in stories set in situations/visuals from the 1960s, then a new animated series--if as faithful--could stand a serious chance to succeed.

But that is a couple of episodes vs. an entire series, they did not base an entire series on nostaglia. The first season of TNG were they trying to ape TOS 20 years later, was their weakest.

I think one or two episodes of a show cashing in nostaglia is okay, but trying to gamble an entire series on it seems like a risk that may not pay off. And really we are talking about episodes that aired almost 10 and 20 years ago and the Mirror episodes certainly didn't prevent Enterprise from being cancelled. DS9 had one nostaglia episode and the rest of series was mostly dedicated to their own ongoing plot. Its bit naive to expect just because something worked for one episode of DS9 almost 20 years ago, will work again today with the entirety of TAS.

I think BTAS was the first time a lot of this stuff was done in Western cartoon and the anime imports from the 80s were often really censored.

On average, 1970s anime suffered severe edits or entire plots restructured (see Gatchaman's North American version, Battle of the Planets), but the 80s--in syndication--opened the door to series (ex. Robotech--despite some edits) were violence, death and other adult themes were exposed to audiences at a time where G.I. Joe lasers never killed anyone, and all pilots managed to eject from planes before the crash. The contrast was shocking, but audiences certainly embraced the imports' mature ideas.

There were still a lot of anime censorship, even in the 90s and early 2000s shows like Sailor Moon and One Piece were very censored. The censoring of anime may not have been as bad in the 80s as it was in the 80s, but it often was censored, look at Voltron.

Kids, young adults and older adults were fans of the series. On a personal note, I was a child when TAS premiered, and found it every bit as fascinating as the parent series.

But kids of today may not like the same things as kids from the 70s.

This seems like a very nostaglia based argument for revamping TAS, rather then a logical one.

Nostalgia/repsect fueled the episodes of DS9 and ENT, and results were successful.

But it does seem like you are basing your arguments on nostalgia instead of pragmatism.

Why not make a modern cartoon and have one or two episodes as a monuments to nostaglia, rather then trying to sell a cartoon from the 70s to kids today. That seems like a better plan to me.

I'm sure Star Trek TAS was good for the 70s, but I'm not sure it would be a big hit now, when animation is a far more competitive field then it was in the 70s.

Why do you feel it necessary to keep harping on that as if anyone were suggesting anything of the kind? The question is not whether it would "be a big hit now" -- the question is whether one is able to assess it by the standards of its time and understand factually that for its time, it was actually a well-made, respected, and successful show. If people are too blinded by modern tastes to appreciate older works like '70s animation or black-and-white movies or live radio dramas, warts and all, I say that's their loss.

Except the OP suggested spending money on updating the animation from the old show, for what I assume would be an updated release. If people like this show that is fine, it seems good for a 70s cartoon, but I'm not sure its worth the time and effort of updating it for today's masses. This show never really gained the popularity that most of the live action shows had, it doesn't have its dedicated forum on this site, for example. Again instead of trying to just revamp an old cartoon, I would rather CBS make a new animated series.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

But that is a couple of episodes vs. an entire series, they did not base an entire series on nostaglia. The first season of TNG were they trying to ape TOS 20 years later, was their weakest.

The point was: if modern audiences were so against seeing anything from the past (and exposed to the fantasy of their then-current eras of 1996 and 2005), then the TOS-themed episodes would have failed. They were successes, and among the most popular episodes of each series.

Ask yourself why, at a time when the TNG-forward production values / appearance / style of storytelling was the order of the day? If tastes have changed as much as you suggest, why would any DS9 audiences (in their post-Star Wars / Terminator / Jurassic Park / Batman reality), or ENT audiences (in their Star Wars prequels / Raimi Spider-Man / Men in Black / Lord of the Rings / Harry Potter, and not to mention TNG movies) tolerate even 50 minutes of drama set in the TOS' 1960s world?

I think one or two episodes of a show cashing in nostaglia is okay, but trying to gamble an entire series on it seems like a risk that may not pay off. And really we are talking about episodes that aired almost 10 and 20 years ago and the Mirror episodes certainly didn't prevent Enterprise from being cancelled.

I did not say the mirror episodes prevented ENT's cancellation. However, they were one of--if not the highlight of the entire series, which says much about--again--the TOS universe accepted by 2005 audiences.

There were still a lot of anime censorship, even in the 90s and early 2000s shows like Sailor Moon and One Piece were very censored. The censoring of anime may not have been as bad in the 80s as it was in the 80s, but it often was censored, look at Voltron.

The point was that darker themes were introduced and accepted before B:TAS on popular, widely distributed series.

But kids of today may not like the same things as kids from the 70s.

It is not about cloning TAS--making "the same things," any more than the DS9 & ENT episodes were "the same things" as TOS. the universe--the setting was the same, but the stories were original, and compelling.

 

[Maurice]

The point was: if modern audiences were so against seeing anything from the past (and exposed to the fantasy of their then-current eras of 1996 and 2005), then the TOS-themed episodes would have failed. They were successes, and among the most popular episodes of each series.

Popular amongst hardcore fans who still talk about the shows, sure, but what about the general audience of casual viewers? That's the problem with gauging the "audience" based on the true-fans. It frequently gives you a skewed idea of what the most popular segment was. After all, few serious fans would name The Voyage Home as their favorite Trek film, but a LOT of casual viewers do.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

Popular amongst hardcore fans who still talk about the shows, sure, but what about the general audience of casual viewers? That's the problem with gauging the "audience" based on the true-fans. It frequently gives you a skewed idea of what the most popular segment was. After all, few serious fans would name The Voyage Home as their favorite Trek film, but a LOT of casual viewers do.

Think of the Star Wars prequels. To the average audience, the build up to The Phantom Menace centered around a desire to see the earlier versions familiar, important characters or concepts from the original trilogy: Jedi vs Sith, younger Yoda, Vader & Obi-Wan. However, Lucas had already planned to shoehorn of all things Fett into the Star Wars prequels.

Boba Fett was popular in a cult sense, but he was not the heart of fandom for the original trilogy. Lucas turned a 5 minute character (even Lucas admitted Fett originally had limited purpose) into the heart of the empire's growth / takeover of the universe in the two of the three prequels.

Fett (Boba or Jango) was not such a crucial, popular character that he warranted such an important role in the prequels, yet Lucas catered to a small part of SW fandom (the kind of minority who bought "expanded universe" material).

The average moviegoer knew who Yoda, Obi-Wan or Jedi in general were, but I do not recall the average viewer hoping for the return of Fett.

...but Lucas gave the character a major promotion beyond his original value.

In Star Trek's case, i'm thinking the TOS episodes of DS9 & ENT touched a bigger segment of the audience. Obviously TOS fans, but those who were the bridge--that is, the fans who came to ST via TNG, but were exposed to TOS characters through the movies, and ended up discovering the TV series. Unlike a minor character such as Fett, TOS' influence extended to characters, stories--pretty much the ST universe that followed in one way or another.

While i'm no fan of the JJ-Trek films, it says much about the interest and staying power of TOS, since the new films could have created all new characters in some century beyond that of TNG - VOY, or set it in the ENT period. Yes, there's a ton of revisions in JJ-Trek, but its foundation is TOS, which does not seem to be rejected.

 

[Redfern]

I resisted referencing her since I know I can be a bit "one note" about it, but I suspect it's time this thread needs a pleasant distraction that is still somewhat on topic.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[EnriqueH]

Hey!

I'm a hardcore Trek fan who happens to cite The Voyage Home as his favorite Trek film!

On a separate note, good job, Red Fern. Is that your animation?

 

[Redfern]

Not animation, just a still render. Plus, it was not done with "lofty" tools like LightWave or Maya, but the ever humble Poser, meaning I work with pre-made base figures and props that can be modified, "morphed". I forgot to post the credits in my previous thread. I'll rectify that now.

Aiko 3...DAZ
Body textures...Daio
Body B-maps...Verge Visible
Face and body morphs...Beth Capsces
"Paw" morphs...JENelson (aka Achronicity)
Tail prop...Little Dragon
Dixie for A3...LittleFox
OKTAPUSSI Armor Expansion...Traveler
Mane (Hr-086)...Ali
Corridor set...XCalPro
Michael 2 P4...DAZ.com
Spock face morph...Stahlratte
Uniform tunic...XCalPro
Uniform pants...XCalPro
Uniform boots...XCalPro
Spock hair...Mylochka
Brandy bottle...Rduda

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[Marsden]

Or if you find sound a likes too offensive, they could just make a show about new characters. They make a show about the USS Titian and bring in Jonathan Frakes, that be more interesting and original then just revamping TAS, I rather see new stories than a redressing of stories from 40 years ago.

I'd like that, very much. They could have Riker on his own ship, doing things, and maybe have a guest once in a while, like Picard or Worf. Dorn should like that, he won't have to be made up for it.

 

[Kail]

Hey Redfern, I was all over XCalPro and could not find that hallway. Can you point me in the right direction?

 

[Redfern]

Hopefully this link will send you straight to it.

http://xcalpro.com/tng/download.php?view.72

It's a stretch of corridor more or less corresponding to the Desilu soundstage layout, about a quarter circle arc with a straight corridor branching inward and another extending outward. It's a series of separate props "parented" to a deck-plate. To obtain better camera angles, just turn off the visibility of the desire piece so it won't obstruct the camera. In theory, you can even "shoot" within the Jefferies Tube looking down as was done in the series. The set even has that tubular gangway with the 3 sided ladder.

Sincerely,

Bill

 

[EnriqueH]

Or if you find sound a likes too offensive, they could just make a show about new characters. They make a show about the USS Titian and bring in Jonathan Frakes, that be more interesting and original then just revamping TAS, I rather see new stories than a redressing of stories from 40 years ago.

I'd like that, very much. They could have Riker on his own ship, doing things, and maybe have a guest once in a while, like Picard or Worf. Dorn should like that, he won't have to be made up for it.

That would be cool.

But why does it have to one or the other, Overlord? How about both!

 

[Kail]

Don't know why I couldn't see that before. I downloaded it, but can't find it in my Poser files. Any suggestions?
Nevermind, I figured it out. Thanks!

 

[Redfern]

Glad you got it to work. It has just about every detail the filming set had including the that "plant pot" valve, that gangway "nook" Sulu ascended as he cried "Cowards!" in "The Naked Time", even the shuttle deck pressure gauge.

And while it's no doubt less accurate than Donny's UnReal 4 render engine based models, it works well enough for my purposes.

Sincerely,

Bill