The Animated Series

[Hober Mallow]

I think I know what the problem is.

Star Trek TOS was such an energetic show. A young Bill Shatner is the star, for chrissakes. The guy didn't stop moving!

And then there were explosions, chases, phaser shoot outs, fistfights, melodrama, screaming, torture, warp speed chases, crewmen being tossed around the Enterprise.

And then comes TAS with its relaxed animation style.

It's kind of a rough transition.

It wasn't just the animation, though. Shatner sounds like he's delivering lines while half asleep. New animation isn't going to fix that.

EDIT: Plynch and others have already mentioned that. I should resist the urge to reply before I've read the entire thread.

 

[drt]

I don't know how accurate this is, but I recall reading years ago (most likely in a "Best of TREK" book) that Shatner, and likely Nimoy and Kelly as well, just recorded his lines into a tape player at other jobs he was working - so I'm not sure there was much voice direction at all.

 

[EnriqueH]

I think I know what the problem is.

Star Trek TOS was such an energetic show. A young Bill Shatner is the star, for chrissakes. The guy didn't stop moving!

And then there were explosions, chases, phaser shoot outs, fistfights, melodrama, screaming, torture, warp speed chases, crewmen being tossed around the Enterprise.

And then comes TAS with its relaxed animation style.

It's kind of a rough transition.

It wasn't just the animation, though. Shatner sounds like he's delivering lines while half asleep. New animation isn't going to fix that.

EDIT: Plynch and others have already mentioned that. I should resist the urge to reply before I've read the entire thread.

Yeah, I mentioned just a few posts before in this thread that I thought Shatner was "getting the knack" for working in animation with the episode "Bem" in Season 2.

It was mentioned that Shatner didn't have experience working in animation. (Pretty sure that was in this thread, but I don't want to stop writing to doublecheck.)

But new animation would definitely help the show's energy. It's way top stagnant to be Star Trek.

 

[T'Girl]

Shatner, and likely Nimoy and Kelly as well, just recorded his lines into a tape player at other jobs he was working

The script (as I understand it) would be sent to them in whatever city they were in at the time. Although I believe they would go into a studio in that city to record.

 

[RandyS]

Shatner, and likely Nimoy and Kelly as well, just recorded his lines into a tape player at other jobs he was working

The script (as I understand it) would be sent to them in whatever city they were in at the time. Although I believe they would go into a studio in that city to record.

Have you ever seen the picture online of Shatner Nimoy and Kelley recording a script into a mike? Since they appear older than in TOS, but younger than in TMP, I always just assumed that was from TAS, but I've also heard these "recorded voices separately" stories.

I wonder which is true.

 

[Christopher]

Have you ever seen the picture online of Shatner Nimoy and Kelley recording a script into a mike? Since they appear older than in TOS, but younger than in TMP, I always just assumed that was from TAS, but I've also heard these "recorded voices separately" stories.

I wonder which is true.

Perhaps both. Recording voices separately is generally the norm for animation (although that's changed somewhat in recent years), but there may have been an occasion when they were able to get together for a recording. Or maybe that photo was staged for publicity purposes.

 

[Kail]

Nice to see people actually discussing TAS. For so many years it was the forgotten Trek. I like it for several reasons. One, I was there when it first came on, and was happy to have ANY new Star Trek, also now it holds a nostalgic place in my heart. Two, considering it's limitations, I think it's pretty good Star Trek. True, the animation dates it, but there are some good stories there, and it has the original cast. As far as reanimating it, it would be neat to see, but if I had my druthers, I'd like an all new animated series. Star Wars has done quite well with animation on TV, no reason Star Trek could not do the same.

 

[PCz911]

As far as reanimating it, it would be neat to see, but if I had my druthers, I'd like an all new animated series. Star Wars has done quite well with animation on TV, no reason Star Trek could not do the same.

I agree. The quality of modern animation is amazing. Star wars clone wars were great before they went to the computer generated version and the stories went to sh$&. Imagine a star trek animated version with bill and Leonard. Awesome!

Or even a "spin off" where George finally gets a sulu-centric show!

 

[Christopher]

I agree. The quality of modern animation is amazing.

Well, it depends on the people doing it and how much time and money they have to put into it. So it varies from production to production. The most consistent thing that can be said about modern animation vis-a-vis older animation is that it tends to be more stylistically vivid, more distinctively designed.

 

[plynch]

Nice to see people actually discussing TAS. For so many years it was the forgotten Trek. I like it for several reasons. One, I was there when it first came on, and was happy to have ANY new Star Trek, also now it holds a nostalgic place in my heart. Two, considering it's limitations, I think it's pretty good Star Trek. True, the animation dates it, but there are some good stories there, and it has the original cast. As far as reanimating it, it would be neat to see, but if I had my druthers, I'd like an all new animated series. Star Wars has done quite well with animation on TV, no reason Star Trek could not do the same.

We reach.

 

[urbandefault]

"reanimate," "new animation," "update," "modernize," etc.

Does anyone remember the reaction of the general public when Ted Turner colorized all those classic black & white movies? Sometimes, just because you can do a thing it doesn't necesssarily follow that you should. Just sayin'.

 

[EnriqueH]

Well, I just finished the series.

I've heard mixed reviews over the years and now I can come to my own conclusion.

I think the stories were about 90% great. I'm actually looking forward to reading the adaptations and hope the Alan Dean Foster novelizations make it easier to "follow the action".

Which leads me to: the animation.

As we have been discussing and I've mentioned, I really feel like the animation was way too stagnant for a series known for its high energy.

The animation may have been great for the 70s and even 80s, but now I find it too dated. Kinda like when I watched The Goonies for the first time a few years back when I really should've watched back in grade school when it came out. I can't help but feel I would've liked it A LOT MORE if I had seen it as a 4th grader for the first time than as a grown up. I had the same reaction with ST: TAS.

I went through Seasons 1-3 and then felt TAS took a little more effort to get through. The music and the stagnant animation made it a little hard on me. The actors were there, the stories were there, but the animation kinda straight-jacketed the action. MIND YOU: the drawings and color was great, but the lack of movement to the pretty pictures really distracted me at times.

Ah, but those stories were fantastic.

I finally got to see sequels to Tribbles, Mudd, Shore Leave, and another Guardian story, which I had known about. Oh, and I finally got to see Captain Robert April. I had read about these stories in the Star Trek Compendium, and now I finally saw them.

It was great fun overall.

I enjoyed Arex and M'Ress, so those were fun. They screamed 70s/80s characters and were not too involved in the action, so that made it fun in a nostalgic sort of way.

On now to...Star Trek: The Motion Picture...

 

[Christopher]

^The Foster adaptations flesh out the stories a great deal, but I think that tonally they're a fairly good fit for the slower pace and more subdued passions of TAS. And they have some idiosyncrasies of their own, some interpretations of the Trek universe that might seem a little odd in light of what we've learned of it since. He also adds his own original stories to flesh out the later volumes (usually sequels to the adapted episodes, but Log Ten includes a prequel, a concurrent story, and a sequel to "The Slaver Weapon," with only 3 of 14 chapters devoted to the episode), and some of them are weird to say the least.

Still, the Logs add a lot of worthwhile stuff to the stories. These days I tend toward the opinion that both TAS and the Logs are only semi-accurate interpretations of the adventures they depict, and that the "real" stories were a mix of elements from both.

 

[EnriqueH]

^The Foster adaptations flesh out the stories a great deal, but I think that tonally they're a fairly good fit for the slower pace and more subdued passions of TAS. And they have some idiosyncrasies of their own, some interpretations of the Trek universe that might seem a little odd in light of what we've learned of it since. He also adds his own original stories to flesh out the later volumes (usually sequels to the adapted episodes, but Log Ten includes a prequel, a concurrent story, and a sequel to "The Slaver Weapon," with only 3 of 14 chapters devoted to the episode), and some of them are weird to say the least.

Still, the Logs add a lot of worthwhile stuff to the stories. These days I tend toward the opinion that both TAS and the Logs are only semi-accurate interpretations of the adventures they depict, and that the "real" stories were a mix of elements from both.

Interesting.

Too bad that the Foster stories don't nail it, it seems. But I'm glad they flesh out the stories.

Did you picture the live action cast or their animated counterparts when reading them? I'm expecting/hoping to envision the live action versions.

 

[PCz911]

I agree. The quality of modern animation is amazing.

Well, it depends on the people doing it and how much time and money they have to put into it. So it varies from production to production. The most consistent thing that can be said about modern animation vis-a-vis older animation is that it tends to be more stylistically vivid, more distinctively designed.

Good point. It caused me a "re-think". In light of those comments I can see how some of the Disney work of that relative era was also extremely high quality. I was, perhaps, a bit blinded by post akira Japanese anime which - as you rightly point out - is a stylistic change.

 

[The Overlord]

I think another big problem is the limited voice cast, the TOS crew seemed to break the bank and they had almost no money for extra voice actors.

Now James Doohan seemed like a competent voice actor, so he seemed to provide a variety of voices for the male gust stars, though it still seemed a bit cheap to rely on him for almost male guest star. Also it seemed to be up to Majel Barrett and Nichelle Nichols to provide the voices for the female guest characters and they just didn't the vocal range to make these characters very convincing.

There are many voice actors who have a wide vocal range, but no one outside of Doohan seemed to have much vocal range.

That's why I would be more interested in a new animated series rather then trying to remaster TAS. I think since the 90s, kids animation made leaps and bounds improvements in terms of story telling and animation and generally allowed for a far bigger voice cast then TAS ever did. I think Batman the Animated Series was more of a break through series then Star Trek TAS. TAS was likely good for an animated 70s show (which isn't saying much, the 70s is considered the worst decade for animation in America), but I doubt it holds much appeal today except for die hard Trekies. I don't think TAS would appeal to today's kids and most fans would like find it too cheesy.

A new animated series would allow for more modern stories (animation can get away with a lot more now then it could in the 70s), better animation and a more diverse voice cast. Also I don't really care if they bring back the original cast or not for a new cartoon, the Clone Wars cartoon used sound a likes to play major characters from the movies and that worked fine.

 

[Christopher]

Too bad that the Foster stories don't nail it, it seems. But I'm glad they flesh out the stories.

Oh, I didn't mean to suggest they were disappointing. They're excellent in their way -- I just wanted to caution you not to expect them to make the stories feel more like TOS episodes. They're still very much their own entity.

Did you picture the live action cast or their animated counterparts when reading them? I'm expecting/hoping to envision the live action versions.

I try to envision them in the Filmation animated style, but in the style of their better-animated work from later years.

I think another big problem is the limited voice cast, the TOS crew seemed to break the bank and they had almost no money for extra voice actors.

Actually it was pretty standard for Filmation shows to get by with ensembles of 5-6 credited actors doing all the voices, plus uncredited contributions by Lou Scheimer and his family. Filmation's 1980 Lone Ranger series had it particularly bad -- beyond William Conrad (as "J. Darnoc") as the Ranger and Ivan Naranjo as Tonto, virtually all the male guest voices for much of the show's run were done by Scheimer and all the female voices by Scheimer's wife Jay and daughter Erika. Which got kind of annoying after a while, since Lou Scheimer had a finite repertoire of voices and his wife and daughter had only one or two voices each and were really bad actors. Fortunately, they eventually brought in Frank Welker to do guest voices, and there was the occasional contribution from Alan Oppenheimer and, in one case, a character that I'm fairly certain was voiced by Greg Morris. (Oddly, while Frank Welker was ubiquitous everywhere else in animation, he never seemed to work for Filmation except for a brief period from 1979-81.)

 

[Commishsleer]

I think another big problem is the limited voice cast, the TOS crew seemed to break the bank and they had almost no money for extra voice actors.

Now James Doohan seemed like a competent voice actor, so he seemed to provide a variety of voices for the male gust stars, though it still seemed a bit cheap to rely on him for almost male guest star. Also it seemed to be up to Majel Barrett and Nichelle Nichols to provide the voices for the female guest characters and they just didn't the vocal range to make these characters very convincing.

There are many voice actors who have a wide vocal range, but no one outside of Doohan seemed to have much vocal range.

That's why I would be more interested in a new animated series rather then trying to remaster TAS. I think since the 90s, kids animation made leaps and bounds improvements in terms of story telling and animation and generally allowed for a far bigger voice cast then TAS ever did. I think Batman the Animated Series was more of a break through series then Star Trek TAS. TAS was likely good for an animated 70s show (which isn't saying much, the 70s is considered the worst decade for animation in America), but I doubt it holds much appeal today except for die hard Trekies. I don't think TAS would appeal to today's kids and most fans would like find it too cheesy.

A new animated series would allow for more modern stories (animation can get away with a lot more now then it could in the 70s), better animation and a more diverse voice cast. Also I don't really care if they bring back the original cast or not for a new cartoon, the Clone Wars cartoon used sound a likes to play major characters from the movies and that worked fine.

I'm not sure all todays cartoons have that big a voice cast. On a day when i'm feeling particularly evil I say to my kids why does the guy over there sound like Mordecai or is that Rigby's cousin or something- he sounds the same? I can tell when the main voice actor is playing a 'guest star'.

They even reuse voice actors between cartoons. Even my kids pick up on that. They don't care.

 

[The Overlord]

I think another big problem is the limited voice cast, the TOS crew seemed to break the bank and they had almost no money for extra voice actors.

Now James Doohan seemed like a competent voice actor, so he seemed to provide a variety of voices for the male gust stars, though it still seemed a bit cheap to rely on him for almost male guest star. Also it seemed to be up to Majel Barrett and Nichelle Nichols to provide the voices for the female guest characters and they just didn't the vocal range to make these characters very convincing.

There are many voice actors who have a wide vocal range, but no one outside of Doohan seemed to have much vocal range.

That's why I would be more interested in a new animated series rather then trying to remaster TAS. I think since the 90s, kids animation made leaps and bounds improvements in terms of story telling and animation and generally allowed for a far bigger voice cast then TAS ever did. I think Batman the Animated Series was more of a break through series then Star Trek TAS. TAS was likely good for an animated 70s show (which isn't saying much, the 70s is considered the worst decade for animation in America), but I doubt it holds much appeal today except for die hard Trekies. I don't think TAS would appeal to today's kids and most fans would like find it too cheesy.

A new animated series would allow for more modern stories (animation can get away with a lot more now then it could in the 70s), better animation and a more diverse voice cast. Also I don't really care if they bring back the original cast or not for a new cartoon, the Clone Wars cartoon used sound a likes to play major characters from the movies and that worked fine.

I'm not sure all todays cartoons have that big a voice cast. On a day when i'm feeling particularly evil I say to my kids why does the guy over there sound like Mordecai or is that Rigby's cousin or something- he sounds the same? I can tell when the main voice actor is playing a 'guest star'.

They even reuse voice actors between cartoons. Even my kids pick up on that. They don't care.

If you compare the voice cast of TAS with Clone Wars, Clone Wars has a far bigger cast:

http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/tv-shows/Star-Trek-The-Animated-Series/voice-credits/

http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/tv-shows/Star-Wars-The-Clone-Wars/voice-credits/

Union rules say that if a voice actor is hired, they have to provide up to 3 voices, if they provide more 3 then they get payed extra, so it only makes sense that shows have voice actors play more then role if they are part of principal cast. But I think the Flimation tactic of almost never hiring voice actors and having the principal cast voice everyone is not used very often anymore.

Also the people who provided more then one voice on Clone Wars were often professional voice actors who did have a good vocal range, I like Majel Barrett and Nichelle Nichols, but they do not have the vocal range to provide the voice of almost every female character.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

That's why I would be more interested in a new animated series rather then trying to remaster TAS. I think since the 90s, kids animation made leaps and bounds improvements in terms of story telling and animation and generally allowed for a far bigger voice cast then TAS ever did.

I think that is debatable. Often, some conflate the relaxation of censorship (usually of violence or sexual themes) as being evidence of better storytelling, as that is the most significant difference between eras of TV animation. However, current TV animation has its own share of problems (ex. Clone Wars relied too much on hollow foreshadowing of events we already know from the original Star Wars films / Anakin is just so brooding and frustrated--whatever), and are not as willing to explore some of the loftier ideas seen in series as old as TAS.

I think Batman the Animated Series was more of a break through series then Star Trek TAS. TAS was likely good for an animated 70s show (which isn't saying much, the 70s is considered the worst decade for animation in America), but I doubt it holds much appeal today except for die hard Trekies. I don't think TAS would appeal to today's kids and most fans would like find it too cheesy.

At the time of its debut, I enjoyed Batman: TAS, but did not think it was as much of a breakthrough, as 1980s syndicated animated imports already pushed more adult themes (including violence) which stood out in a sea of the more common My Little Pony, G.I. Joe, Beverly Hills Teens, and Monchichis offerings.

One can argue--with effect--B:TAS was a breakthrough for superhero cartoons, as their very nature was still hobbled by censors targeting the genre as being inherently violent (nevermind that violence had been stripped from such series by 1969). However, to any interested parites, B: TAS were likely familiar with some of the key influences, such as the Burton Batman (1989) and the Fleischer Superman cartoons.

Cool it may have been, but its not like it was completely new in its execution. At least with TAS, animated TV of the early 1970s was (as noted above) hobbled by censors preventing anything other than the most benign subject matter, unless there was some psychologist-informed plot attempting to educate (mold) young viewers.

TAS--in keeping with the traditions established by TOS--told stories from a sci-fi inspiration that was rare for TV of any kind (including live action), which is one of the reasons the oft quoted Los Angeles Times review:

“NBC’s new animated Star Trek is as out of place in the Saturday morning kiddie ghetto as a Mercedes in a soapbox derby.

“Don’t be put off by the fact that it’s now a cartoon….It is fascinating fare, written, produced and executed with all the imaginative skill, the intellectual flare and the literary level that made Gene Roddenberry’s famous old science fiction epic the most avidly followed program in TV history, particularly in high IQ circles.

...proves just how much of a rare breakthrough TAS was to TV animation.

Also I don't really care if they bring back the original cast or not for a new cartoon, the Clone Wars cartoon used sound a likes to play major characters from the movies and that worked fine.

I do not know about you, but i've never come across anyone attempting Shatner or Kelly that did not sound like the would-be comedic versions of the actors.