Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Mr Silver, Sep 8, 2011.
Ronald Tracey, a murderer, hard to stoop lower.
Arguably Picard in Insurrection, but I don't want to drag that argument into this thread.
Yeah, the novels and comics really did a good job in redeeming Harriman, establishing that his first outing as Enterprise captain was truly a disaster, but that he learned from his mistakes and later proved himself more than worthy for the position.
When working on Trek XI, the writers realised how often captains other then Kirk were depicted as very incompitant people, and wanted to change that with Robeau (spelling?). They felt that being promoted to a captain of a starship was something reserved for people who had proven to be up to it, to be compitent, capable leaders. And I'm glad they did, because I still can't understand a Starfleet that would put someone like Stiles in command of an experimentel starship.
As for Harriman, I dare anyone that hates him to read Serpents Among The Ruines and still say he's a bad captain.
I'll throw my hat in the Janeway camp.
Actually, their exact words were "If you are a captain in Starfleet you are a cool mother f—er."
That was NuKirk, all cool, no experience.
Now can you explain, at the end of ST Eleven, why one of them wasn't put in command of the Enterprise? After the dust settled?
Except, Jellico was taking the Enterprise into battle, not on science mission. Compare Jellico's manner to that of Picard during Yesterday's Enterprise. Also, Jellico was polite with Riker until he realized that his first officer wasn't going to co-operate with the new captain, only then did Jellico turn into a "asshole." Watch the way he talks with Troi, he is reasonable and uses soft correct tones. He has no problems with Worf. And, even through LaForge also disagrees with him, because LaForge isn't flipping Jellico shit, the two do get along in a superior/subordinate relationship.
In some of the early TNG episodes, Picard raises his voice and openly "barks" at his officers, on a few occasions. They're not doing things the way he wants.
Yes, but what kind of captain was he? How well did he manage his ship? What are his diplomatic skill like? Kirk indicates he had quite the reputation.
Captain Janeway has my vote for worst captain.Captain Harriman is a close second for worst Captain he was totally imcompetant and had no business commanding a starship.
You should also try the Captain's Log Comic that focused on him.
Two had been dead for 25 years and the other one was an admiral.
Plus none of them had a vulcan from the future and said admiral vouching for them.
Why always the Janeway hate? She was stuck 70 years away from Earth (Or Federation space I don't think it was ever made clear). Her command decisions had to be based as much on training as on "What the hell do I do now?" Think about how long would would Picard, Sisco or Kirk, be able to maintain a consistent command style or make the proper starfleet style decision? Picard in his huge Galaxy class ship might have held out longer but even he would know that constant attacks by the Kazon and Vidiians would be taking their toll on him and his crew. Who really could be consistent, near perfect, faced with with ~70 year journey home?
Jellico was a captain's captain the Enterprise crew were a bunch of whiney bitches, watching the episode on TV right now.
But, she didn't maintain a consistent command style. Kate Mulgrew herself says that Janeway was borderline erratic in her command style and decision-making process from one episode to the next... which of course Mulgrew blames on the writing staff.
My personal issue with Voyager was the whole "Our primary mission is to get home, but lets pause to gaze at every celestial phenomena and/or stop over at every planet on the way to meddle in their affairs."
Wouldn't have made for a very good TV show if they had avoided all contact with alien races and just made a bee line for home now would it? My personal issue with Voyager is that it had far too many weak or down right annoying characters.
Well, it wasn't a good TV show... AND they did all that. ymmv.
You're spot on about the characters.
Jellico wasn't likable, and I think that's why a lot of people don't rank him as a good captain. I didn't like him either. However, I do see merit in his command approach. He was a hard-ass, but had to be given the circumstances. There wasn't any luxury of time to make nice. He had to get this crew ready for battle, and without knowing Picard's management style to "ease" them into feeling good about him after the loss of Picard. I thought he handled the Cardassians really well. And he got the job done, which was most important. I'd hope that under peaceful conditions, he'd be a bit more engaging and pleasant to the crew, but we never got the chance...
A TOs Purist can deny his own eye if it offends him.
Ron Tracey was the worst by a mile, yeah. I don't guess we count that guy in "Bread And Circuses" - he was a bad captain, but not a Starfleet starship captain.
This further proves that the whole "We're lost and want to get home" thing works best when the Galaxy/Universe is uninhabited except for humans, like in NuBSG. In the Trekverse, the same plot as VOY had already been played out in TOS and TNG. For a Trek show they'd need something more to the plot than "lost and want to go home" to keep it fresh.
Or they got caught up in the affairs of other planets or species because they happened to stop there to barter for supplies.
Yes Voyager did have poor character development. But no ones mentioned Captain Bateson for not recognizing the name "USS Enterprise." Or it's obvious size difference and different look from a Constitution class ship, or that it's shape and design would not be in the Bozeman's computer. Only that "it's not familiar to us."
Separate names with a comma.