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Thats it. I dont consider Disc , SNW , or Picard cannon

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Kirk seemed to know what "dipshit" meant when he was back in the year 1986. So yeah, I don't buy that our TOS and even TNG heroes didn't know how to spout colloquialisms. The TV censors of their respective series just wouldn't allow us to hear them being spoken.
 
ED-209 said:
Sorry I know this makes me a minority but I can't stand her, I want to throw things at the screen whenever she is on it.
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Have you read Una McCormack's novel about her, THE WAY TO THE STARS? It fleshes out her backstory a lot. I really enjoyed it.

I actually have this pet theory that STAR TREK (and SF movies and tv in general) often benefit from having characters with big, vibrant personalities and distinctive, colorful voices. The better not to get upstaged by all the futuristic sets, costumes, SFX, and technobabble.

And colloquial dialogue helps to bring the outlandish plots and settings down to earth, grounding them in reality, making them and the characters more relatable. IMO.
 
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In my experience, when folks say "it's not Star Trek" what they usually mean is "it's not TNG."

But here's the thing: With all due respect to TNG, not everybody thinks it's the gold standard to which all STAR TREK must adhere to, before and after. Some folks prefer TOS or DS9 or even DISCOVERY.

STAR TREK is a big umbrella, which comes in many different flavors these days. And that's a good thing, IMO.
 
I think people hold TNG up high for a few reasons, especially if that was the Trek they grew up on (which, just given the demographics of 2023, is a lot of fans)

1. It set the tone and aesthetic for 3 other spin-off series (DS9, VOY and ENT) that all ran in overlapping fashion with crossover between the production and writing teams, giving the impression that everything was one giant, interconnected, carefully crafted universe. Which, of course, it sometimes was and it mostly wasn't.

2. It spent an inordinate amount of time preaching about ethics and humanity as an evolved species and other such pretentious bullshit. It was the ULTIMATE in Roddenberry Brand Kool-Aid, which is neither good nor bad...but it set a tone that people came to expect as an essential franchise component.

3. It was often boring. I know this sounds like a weird "feature..." but it meant that people started to buy into "boring, intellectual, and contemplative" as a differentiating trait of Star Trek over-and-above other sci-fi franchises.

I like TNG, and I would watch just about any episode happily if it were playing on TV. I did a rewatch recently and enjoyed it a lot, despite some sections of various seasons being a horrendous slog to get through. But...honestly, most of the other series had far more action/adventure, interesting character development, and were just generally more dynamic shows.
 
Rewatching TNG recently and I was struck by something recent seasons have been accused of and that's the 3rd act reveal. I found myself often annoyed at the tendency for the heroes to struggle until they go, "Oh, here's the answer" and it's resolved. And the whole plot is done.
 
Bludgeoning a series I like non-stop with another series I like less is the quickest way to turn me off the series I like less. For years, TNG was used to bludgeon everything else and it turned me off TNG until I re-watched it in 2019. DS9 has also been used to bludgeon everything else, it's turned me off from it, I go re-watch some episodes, then I think to myself, "This isn't as good as what they've build up in their heads. Sorry."

If so many SNW Fans didn't trash everything else that's come out since 2017, especially DSC, I wouldn't be so turned off from it, despite not thinking it's a bad show. I haven't even bothered to watch the Season 2 Trailer yet. I did see a few pics from the trailer though, and I'm not feeling it. Even if I hadn't already been rubbed the wrong way.

On the flip side, PIC Season 3 is actually my favorite season of New Trek, so Terry Trekkers haven't turned me off from PIC. Technically, I agree with them that "PIC Season 3 is better!", so that renders any other argument I have with them moot. I just disagree with them about the degree to which I think it's better.
 
Lord Garth said:
Bludgeoning a series I like non-stop with another series I like less is the quickest way to turn me off the series I like less. For years, TNG was used to bludgeon everything else and it turned me off TNG until I re-watched it in 2019. DS9 has also been used to bludgeon everything else, it's turned me off from it, I go re-watch some episodes, then I think to myself, "This isn't as good as what they've build up in their heads. Sorry."

If so many SNW Fans didn't trash everything else that's come out since 2017, especially DSC, I wouldn't be so turned off from it, despite not thinking it's a bad show. I haven't even bothered to watch the Season 2 Trailer yet. I did see a few pics from the trailer though, and I'm not feeling it. Even if I hadn't already been rubbed the wrong way.

On the flip side, PIC Season 3 is actually my favorite season of New Trek, so Terry Trekkers haven't turned me off from PIC. Technically, I agree with them that "PIC Season 3 is better!", so that renders any other argument I have with them moot. I just disagree with them about the degree to which I think it's better.
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Don't let goonball fans turn you off from something that could be really good. SNW is a nice piece of Star Trek so far.
 
I would say SNW is the first time I've found raw dopamine and seratonin generating interaction of simple enjoyment since DS9 ended. I have found Picard super interesting but it doesn't tickle the "this is fucking FUN" button. It had great nostalgia and some very thought provoking questions but it wasn't light hearted.
 
And even TNG eschewed some of Gene's own utopian vision when it came to how characters on a starship sometimes behaved. The way Geordi and other officers treated Reginald Barclay in "Hollow Pursuits" is downright shameful and cringe-inducing. For human beings born and raised in some post-scarcity society where nobody suffers or is forced to live in want they sure do make a person with unique and sensitive emotional and neurological wiring feel like shit.
 
Whenever I hear about what is and isn't Star Trek I go back to a quote I saw from Nimoy:
LgrI57z.jpg
 
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