That Bajor doesn't join during the series...

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Does it bug you that Bajor does not join during the series, or that this was not mentioned really during the end of the series.

Clearly they did not forget about it, as evidenced in the doc. Do you think this was a good idea?

 

[Tosk]

It doesn't bother me in the slightest. Just because something was planned or headed towards, doesn't mean it has to come to fruition. I actually think it's more interesting that the officer assigned to make it happen ended up so much a part of their religion that he told 'em to "Hold up. Waitaminute."

 

[Armus]

Bajor survived the Dominion while Cardassia was destroyed by it, all because Bajor didn't join the Federation. The series ended with some poetic justice. If DS9 had continued, Bajor would have joined the Federation no doubt.

 

[Timo]

The "had they joined, they'd be dust" card was well played. No mortal could predict with any certainty that not joining would really protect the planet - but the Prophets would have the predicting bit down pat.

Still, playing that card would have been so much better had there ultimately been a second opportunity for Bajor to join and the planet would have taken that. Preferably with a guest appearance by Picard to boot. Perhaps just a snapshot in "WYLB", a short flash of Picard shaking hands with, dunno, Shakaar, and extras applauding, with no real comment from the DS9 heroes for whom things like friendship and trust now mattered more than words on a paper.

Or then an actual plot moment, showing how Sisko finally achieved what he was told to - say, the no longer mortal Emissary bellowing to the Bajoran government from the heavens or whatnot, or then sending a note via Kasidy, what-have-you. But I'd have preferred the subtler approach, showing that the joining no longer was a big deal. Not showing any joining actually made the opposite impression - that it perhaps for some reason still was a big deal, but one to be avoided for in-universe reason X, not to mention studio reason Y.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[NewHeavensNewEarth]

We're talking about DS9 - a show that often ended episodes in a pretty open-ended way (even stand-alone episodes). Why would the series finale be any different?

 

[Bad Thoughts]

It was really the only idea. Given that the studio, guided by public opinion, severely limited the number of episodes that could address the internal politics of Bajor, the story of Bajor's admittance could never really be told. Showing them actually joining them could be nothing more than a hand wave. Indeed, the solution that we got--Sisko prophesying that Bajor would join at some time in the future in Rapture--was a kind of hand wave, but it at least was part of a story that was still organic to the series narrative.

 

[Tenacity]

Does it bug you that Bajor does not join during the series

Not at all, never saw this as a goal of the series, or really in Bajor best interest.

At the end not even in the Federation's interest either. My impression is that the Federation wanted Bajor as a member to be a stick in Cardassia's side, to crowd the Cardassians. At the end of the series Cardassia was no longer a major power and the Federation didn't have to have a member right next to it.

Why make Bajor a member at that point?

 

[Sakonna]

I didn't think they necessarily HAD to go back to this at the end of the series, but given that the Dukat/Winn thread is universally seen as the weak point of the finale, I think they really missed an opportunity to fix all those problems with a return to the Bajor-joins-the-Federation thread.

Since Bajor has already been fully approved for Federation membership, and the only thing that stopped it was Bajor needing to remain unaffiliated for the duration of the war, they didn't have to spend any time setting it up again in the finale. They could have just gone right back into the signing ceremony after the war was won, and that could have been what Winn & Dukat were targeting. Instead of their evil mission being a bunch of mystical mumbo jumbo in that hideously boring cave set, they could have been terrorists plotting to blow up the signing ceremony. Sisko sacrificing himself to stop them would have had much more direct emotional resonance, since all our characters would have been there and he would have been saving their lives, and fulfilling his original Starfleet mission and his Emissary mission, which at this point would have been one and the same. It also would have nicely echoed the plot in "In The Hands Of The Prophets." I think this would have been so much more powerful than what we were given, and it wouldn't have felt like the weird tangent that it does in the episodes as aired.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

If there was a season after the war ended it would have made sense for them to join at the end of it. But it wouldn't have made sense during the war for them to join.

 

[The Wormhole]

Ira Steven Behr feels Bajor should never have joined the Federation. Indeed, when he found out that Bajor did join the Federation in the novels, he said they "completely missed the point of the show."

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Ira Steven Behr feels Bajor should never have joined the Federation. Indeed, when he found out that Bajor did join the Federation in the novels, he said they "completely missed the point of the show."

Yes, but ...

Spoiler

... that may be circumstantial to how the show developed rather than hard opposition. The story in the documentary not only that they might have consider admittance going forward, but how: as part of a developped narrative involving themes of cultural and religious differences.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Bajor's applying for Federation membership after the Cardassian occupation was merely the excuse for Sisko and the gang to be there in the first place, IMO. The real story was what happened after Sisko & company arrived--discovery of the Wormhole, the Maquis Uprising, the Dominion War, etc.

 

[Sakonna]

Ira Steven Behr feels Bajor should never have joined the Federation. Indeed, when he found out that Bajor did join the Federation in the novels, he said they "completely missed the point of the show."

This quote from him is a great example of how creators can sometimes miss the point of their own shows. I was always so fascinated when I encountered this during my time in the entertainment industry, showrunners and writers who fundamentally misperceived aspects of what they were making.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

This quote from him is a great example of how creators can sometimes miss the point of their own shows. I was always so fascinated when I encountered this during my time in the entertainment industry, showrunners and writers who fundamentally misperceived aspects of what they were making.

The primary focus of the series was a single father rebuilding his life on the frontier. Brandon Tartikoff told Rick Berman to put the Rifleman in space. That was the first meeting about DS9. The secondary focus was the depict life at an international crossroads. The story about Bajoran admittance was further down the list, and it was never made clear how it would become more than the background for the series.

 

[Tosk]

This quote from him is a great example of how creators can sometimes miss the point of their own shows.

In what way is Behr missing the point of DS9?

 

[Armus]

In what way is Behr missing the point of DS9?

Wasn't Starfleet stationed at DS9 to help Bajor rebuild in the hopes of being eligible for Federation membership? The only reason they didn't join in "Rapture" was because Sisko got a head's up from the Prophets about the war with The Dominion which would bring destruction to Bajor. I don't see why they wouldn't have joined the Federation after the war ended.

 

[Tosk]

Wasn't Starfleet stationed at DS9 to help Bajor rebuild in the hopes of being eligible for Federation membership? The only reason they didn't join in "Rapture" was because Sisko got a head's up from the Prophets about the war with The Dominion which would bring destruction to Bajor. I don't see why they wouldn't have joined the Federation after the war ended.

Yes, but none of that has to do with the question.

 

[Sakonna]

In what way is Behr missing the point of DS9?

He's forgetting that the show isn't only the seasons that he was showrunner for. An extremely common affliction among showrunners, so he's not unique in that regard. But getting Bajor into the Federation is quite literally the point of the series in the pilot. It just doesn't resonate with him, because he wasn't in charge then. But it resonated with plenty of fans, as evidenced by the persistence of the conversation around this question.

I do believe it's fine for the show to evolve away from the Bajor-joining question, and it wasn't something they had to go back to. I suppose it's more that I consider it idiotic and a bit egomaniacal for him to say that the novel writers missed the point of the series, based on this plot development. They didn't miss the point, they just experienced the first 2 seasons to be as much a part of what DS9 is as the last 5.

 

[Tosk]

I suppose it's more that I consider it idiotic and a bit egomaniacal for him to say that the novel writers missed the point of the series, based on this plot development.

So it's okay for you to say that he missed the point of the series, but it's not okay for him to say it about someone else?

But getting Bajor into the Federation is quite literally the point of the series in the pilot.

I disagree. It's a plot point, not the point. IMO, naturally.

 

[Sakonna]

So it's okay for you to say that he missed the point of the series, but it's not okay for him to say it about someone else?

Yes, exactly. When the comment is as obviously wrong as Behr's is, it's fine to point that out.

Again, not that I think Bajor getting into the Fed is THE point of the series. DS9 is a series that doesn't make just one point -- this series has many points to make, which is one of it's great strengths. A close-up, individual case study of the process by which the one of the many unique races of the Federation is knit into the larger utopian whole was one of those points... for a sizable chunk of the series run, at least, if not the full duration.