terran empire

[USS Triumphant]

Except that in Mirror, Mirror the MU had some history developed for it that wouldn't make sense if it had been "just created." Kirk's service record had a list of his successful campaigns and that he assumed command of the Enterprise upon assassinating Pike and so on.

Your thinking is too linear - what if it was created forward and backward in time from that point? Or, to get semi-religious, what if TPTB created it at the same time as the regular universe, but in response to the transporter event that had not occurred yet?

I'm not saying I BUY it, either. Just that I could see it, and Trek has, at times, certainly sold us worse explanations for things, no?

 

[The Wormhole]

Except that in Mirror, Mirror the MU had some history developed for it that wouldn't make sense if it had been "just created." Kirk's service record had a list of his successful campaigns and that he assumed command of the Enterprise upon assassinating Pike and so on.

Your thinking is too linear - what if it was created forward and backward in time from that point? Or, to get semi-religious, what if TPTB created it at the same time as the regular universe, but in response to the transporter event that had not occurred yet?

Well, like you say above, that is an awful lot of power to attribute to the transporter and an ion storm.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ But the assumption that the MU and RU are somehow 'created', does not treat them as alternate universes, but alternate timelines. If they are indeed alternate universes, as they seem to be, then they can't have been "created" by a single transporter malfunction, as that is obviously impossible.

 

[Shawnster]

The problem or cause that makes people jump to the alternate timeline explanation is that we always see our main characters in action in the MU stories. Logically, this just isn't possible.

Consider just TOS. Kirk assassinated Pike and assumed command. With this assassination, The Menagerie episode could not happen or would be radically different. If Mirror Kirk (and company) had never transferred places with our universe counterparts, the Halkan expedition would have ended differently - Kirk would have killed the Halkans, gotten dilithium and moved on. The point being is the similarities between our universes won't continue indefinitely. At some point the universes will be wildly different and, realistically, there won't be counterparts in either universe.

 

[Vulcan Logician]

According to some physicists, a subatomic particle taking a different route is enough to create an alternate universe.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

There's really nothing to indicate that Kirk's transporter accident created the alternate universe. And personally I find that explanation to ruin the MU, and therefore with the lack of evidence as a fan I must reject it.

I still say maybe the MU is the universe we all are living in. For all we know, in the prime universe Kim Jung Ill was a beloved humanitarian reformer, the NFA is a program dedicated to protect the privacy of the American people, and Wolf Of Wall Street was about a stock broker who resisted the temptations of drugs and prostitutes and challenged the system to start a firm where he built client trust by only recommending the stocks he thought would make them money, regardless of his own personal incentives.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

My personal theory is that the Roman Empire had continued in different way in the MU and eventually grown into the Terran Empire.

Since this is the Mirror Unvirse and everything is exactly the opposite, it was the Eastern Roman Empire which collapsed early on and the Western Roman Empire survived in some form till the end of the Middle Ages... possibly centered on France and/or Britain. Maybe one of these entities proved to be a bit more long-living in the MU:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallic_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannic_Empire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Soissons

Another possible POD is that Christianity never got much of a traction in the MU and was successfully supressed by the Romans. Remember that the rise of Christianity contributed to getting gladiator games banned in Rome in OTL. A Roman Empire which retained its traditional religion possibly would have continued to be a bit more... barbaric. Which eventuelly led to the Western Roman Empire surviving in this universe.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Another possible POD is that Christianity never got much of a traction in the MU and was successfully supressed by the Romans.

Or perhaps the MU God (whether as an actual being or the way He is written there in their scriptures) is a harsher being, and when Jesus came it was to teach different lessons than were taught in our universe.

 

[desfem79]

So if everybody who exists in the normal universe is good is evil in the Mirror U, this has to be reversed. Was looking forward to seeing a good Dukat, or benevolent Founders lol..

But perhaps WWII in that universe was fought between a good Hitler and the evil Terran Empire, since good Hitler invaded Poland to give his people breathing room from the evil Terrans.

 

[USS Triumphant]

But perhaps WWII in that universe was fought between a good Hitler and the evil Terran Empire, since good Hitler invaded Poland to give his people breathing room from the evil Terrans.

I'm thinking, sure, a good Hitler, who unfortunately also made it into the Vienna School of Art and Architecture. I say "unfortunately" because without him to make some of the poor choices he made (invaded Russia, crippled the Luftwaffe because of his personal dislike of flying), the competent leadership of someone like Göring might have won the war - especially if voices like Henry Ford, Charles Lindbergh, Prescott Bush, and the royal Windsors shaped American and British policy regarding the Nazis like I suspect they would have in the MU.

 

[desfem79]

But then if everything is reversed, then maybe a good Hitler became Fuhrer and promoted "good" Nazism. So if would have been Stalin, FDR and Churchill who were evil lol..

 

[USS Triumphant]

...everything is reversed... Stalin... evil lol..

Um, yeaaaah.... you might want to pick up a few more history books and leaf through them...

 

[The Wormhole]

Besides, the MU isn't an exact reversal of good and evil, as noted by Rom.

Indeed, in some respects it's possible everyone is the same as they are in the Prime Universe and it's just humanity which is evil. Enterprise seemed to go with that idea, and in TOS the Mirror Halkans were the same, though the Vulcans apparently became badass mofos who scared the shit out of Sulu. In DS9 the Ferengi are polar opposites, while the Bajorans seem to be more militant and less spiritual. Aside from forming an alliance and working together, there doesn't seem to be anything different about the Klingons or Cardassians.

 

[desfem79]

...everything is reversed... Stalin... evil lol..

Um, yeaaaah.... you might want to pick up a few more history books and leaf through them...

never mind, you didn't get the point.

 

[T'Girl]

... there doesn't seem to be anything different about the Klingons or Cardassians.

Already evil.

 

[Robert Comsol]

Or perhaps the MU God (whether as an actual being or the way He is written there in their scriptures) is a harsher being, and when Jesus came it was to teach different lessons than were taught in our universe.

Can you please elaborate? I find myself unable to see the teachings of Jesus ever practised in our world.

The philosophical question remains how a world with a dog-eats-dog mentality could yield the same technological evolution within the same timeframe as ours, apparently.

Where it gets really interesting is the introduction of the Defiant into the 22nd Century of the Mirror Universe.

Surely the 23rd Century technology was assimilated to create new starships from the one the Terran Empire had gotten its hands own, but isn't it a little odd that the ISS Enterprise in "Mirror, Mirror" must be a rather old design in the Mirror Universe?

A truly interesting plot premise of "In A Mirror, Darkly" remains, that inserting the Defiant into the Mirror Universe apparently didn't create a time paradox.

Bob

 

[T'Girl]

... isn't it a little odd that the ISS Enterprise in "Mirror, Mirror" must be a rather old design in the Mirror Universe?

Perhaps they're not a particularly creative people and simply kept producing the "future tech" that they understood?

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Maybe it just took them a couple of decades to understand and reverse-engineer the future tech.

Besides, the Empire probably didn't put that much emphasis on science & research since they are constantly entangled in conflicts which binds their ressources. Much like the Klingons in our universe.

It's also the same thing with the Vulcan ship from First Contact they captured. Although they had direct access to Vulcan technology as early as 2063 (something which humans didn't have in our universe), ship technology didn't seem to be awfully more advanced in the Mirror Universe by 2155. At least the ship design was essentially the same.

So maybe the ISS Enterprise NCC-1701 was slightly more advanced than the USS Enterprise, but the basic design remained the same.

 

[jmampilly]

I fail to understand how the Vulcans failed to stop the Terran Empire's rise in the first place. Surely after the Terrans killed several Vulcans and began reverse-engineering their technology, Vulcans would have deemed humans a threat and have quickly pacified them.

 

[USS Triumphant]

I fail to understand how the Vulcans failed to stop the Terran Empire's rise in the first place. Surely after the Terrans killed several Vulcans and began reverse-engineering their technology, Vulcans would have deemed humans a threat and have quickly pacified them.

In the MU, perhaps S'task remained on Vulcan, while Surak led his followers to Romulus and Remus. And these Vulcans had lost their way and had become pacifists until Archer showed them S'task's teachings and then demonstrated them when he and the terrorist T'Pau killed half of the ruling Vulcan Science Directorate and she took over. Seeing the logic of strength, they became what Mirror Sulu feared later, maybe even relearned some of the old Vulcan mental-martial disciplines like the Vulcan Death Grip, which is very much real in the MU. ;-)