tell me about Star Wars novels!
- Thread starter Temis the Vorta
- Start date
Dark Empire is hardly mentioned by any of the novels, though. I've never cared for it.
This bit right here makes me think you'd really enjoy Traviss's Republic Commando novels.
I'm not sure which ones I'd recommend, though you could try looking at some episode descriptions (Wikipedia has succinct ones). From season one, "Downfall of a Droid" is all about Anakin and his relationship to R2-D2; "Bombad Jedi" is a Padmé / Jar Jar showcase; "Hostage Crisis" is primarily Anakin / Padmé. From season two, "Senate Spy" is another heavy Anakin / Padmé episode (though Anakin acts ridiculously jealous in this one) and... well, I haven't seen anything farther into season two yet.
One of the problems with trying to recommend specific episodes is that CW is comprised of a lot of two- and three-parters. Most also feature the clones quite heavily as well, naturally, making it even more tricky to recommend for you.
Um, yeah. No clue on that one...I just looked at the Clone Wars thread in this forum to see if I could get some clues but they're arguing about someone called Baby Poopsie and it scared me away!
DarKush reminded me of something with his thoughts on the comics side of the SW EU. There are X-Wing comics that are just as worthy of being read as the novels. The series was titled X-Wing: Rogue Squadron, with the first story taking place 1 year following the Battle of Endor and about 1 year prior to the start of the X-Wing novels.
(On another note, looking at the timeline re: X-Wing just showed me why I said that the novels took place 6 years after Endor -- they start 6 years after the Battle of Yavin, so I was getting my memory mixed up there.)
That's understandable. I almost made the same mistake when I was informing Temis of which years Thrawn and Dark Empire took place. I really wish they hadn't decided to split the timeline at ANH. It made a lot more sense (at least to me) when the timeline split after ROTJ. The Battle of Endor was a far more momentous event in galactic history than the Battle of Yavin.
Thanks, I'll check out the S1 eps - Netflix doesn't have S2 yet.
The broad strokes were mentioned enough in the Jedi Academy trilogy that it completely confused me when I picked them up the first time. I seem to recall what happened to Luke being referenced a few more times throughout the novels.
Temis the Vorta said:I tried watching one Clone Wars episode - I think it was the first one, Yoda leading the clones into battle - and frankly it bored me to tears. I found the characters stiff and unlikable, maybe not as bad in the movies, but still not interesting, and I can't relate to battlebattlebattle. If it's a war like DS9, okay - the battle sequences underscore the characters and become meaningful because of the characters.
I also find the notion that the stormtroopers are all clones to be disturbing - breeding cannon fodder is what the bad guys should be doing! - and the notion that they're all clones of Boba Fett's dad is way too fanboyish for me. Every time one of them talks, it just reminds me of that, and I get annoyed all over again.
It is possible for me to just watch some Clone Wars episodes that focus more on the characters (Padme, Obi-Wan, Anakin)?
Clone Wars has improved a *LOT* in the last two seasons, particularly if your only exposure was the first episode. I think the best character piece they've done so far is season 2's Voyage of Temptation, which is about Obi-Wan. Senate Spy (Anakin and Padme) was all about characters to the complete exclusion of action. The show actually touches on your concerns about the clone army, particularly in the episodes Hidden Enemy in season 1 and The Deserter in season 2, both of which revolve around clones who want out of the army. And no, none of them behave anything like Jango or Boba Fett.
Hmm, maybe I should give it a second look. I always tell newbies to DS9 which S1 episodes to skip (most of them ) so that they won't bail prematurely, so anyone wanna rate the following? I find it a lot easier to be patient with a show if I think it will improve.
"Ambush" - this must have been the one with Yoda and the clones I didn't like much.
"Rising Malevolence"
"Shadow of Malevolence"
"Destroy Malevolence"
"Rookies"
"Downfall of a Droid"
"Duel of the Droids" "
"Bombad Jedi"
"Cloak of Darkness"
"Lair of Grevious"
"Dooku Captured"
"Gungan General"
"Jedi Crash"
"Defenders of Peace"
"Trespass"
"The Hidden Enemy"
) so that they won't bail prematurely, so anyone wanna rate the following? I find it a lot easier to be patient with a show if I think it will improve."Ambush" - this must have been the one with Yoda and the clones I didn't like much.
"Rising Malevolence"
"Shadow of Malevolence"
"Destroy Malevolence"
"Rookies"
"Downfall of a Droid"
"Duel of the Droids" "
"Bombad Jedi"
"Cloak of Darkness"
"Lair of Grevious"
"Dooku Captured"
"Gungan General"
"Jedi Crash"
"Defenders of Peace"
"Trespass"
"The Hidden Enemy"
The strongest ones from that bunch would be Rookies, Cloak of Darkness, and Trespass.
The Hidden Enemy, Duel of the Droids, and Lair of Grievous are all pretty solid, though I should mention the latter two are pretty action heavy. Jedi Crash and Defenders of Peace are pretty solid as well.
the Malevolence episodes are decent but brought down by way too many Original Trilogy references and more battle droid humor of the type you saw in Ambush. Shadow of Malevolence is the strongest of the three, IMO.
I found Bombad Jedi and Downfall of a Droid to be dull and Dooku Captured/Gungan General to be sloppily written.
The Hidden Enemy, Duel of the Droids, and Lair of Grievous are all pretty solid, though I should mention the latter two are pretty action heavy. Jedi Crash and Defenders of Peace are pretty solid as well.
the Malevolence episodes are decent but brought down by way too many Original Trilogy references and more battle droid humor of the type you saw in Ambush. Shadow of Malevolence is the strongest of the three, IMO.
I found Bombad Jedi and Downfall of a Droid to be dull and Dooku Captured/Gungan General to be sloppily written.
The best ones imo are Rookies, Lair of Grievous and Hidden Enemy.
As for novels: the best one I have read one is the Revenge of the Sith novelization that is worlds better than the actual filmed version.
As for novels: the best one I have read one is the Revenge of the Sith novelization that is worlds better than the actual filmed version.
Really? I thought Dark Empire came first. I haven't read Dark Empire in a while, perhaps I need to go back and read it. In addition, I still have the last two Thrawn trilogy books I haven't read.
Now that I think about it, I don't recall Leia having children in the Thrawn books, and I believe she was a mother in DE. My bad.
Though it would seem to make more sense to me to have DE first to wrap all that business before they shifted to Thrawn, which symbolizes a whole new era in a way that DE doesn't. DE seems to wrap up the OT more than lay the groundwork for new adventures.
^ Dark Empire was written to take place not that long after ROTJ. It's current placement was shoehorned because Zahn refused to play along and let "Dark Empire" occur first and therefore he would have to reference it.
I'm guessing that the major problem is due to the Solo babies, since Dark Empire is where Anakin Solo comes from and Zahn wanted to be the first one in with baby Solos. Zahn has never struck me as the most cooperative writer to take part in the EU. He does seem to write in a way that ignores anything in the EU that wasn't born out of his earlier works.
I'm guessing that the major problem is due to the Solo babies, since Dark Empire is where Anakin Solo comes from and Zahn wanted to be the first one in with baby Solos. Zahn has never struck me as the most cooperative writer to take part in the EU. He does seem to write in a way that ignores anything in the EU that wasn't born out of his earlier works.
What?
The man incorporated entire chunks of the pre-existing West Game RPG Sourcebooks into his work. The cloaking shields, many of the new vehicles, etc, these were all lifted right from pre-existing sources. It's even more obvious with the Hand of Thrawn Duology.
Wow, that might be worth checking out. Did they take liberties with the plotline so that they could solve problems like Anakin being an idiot (how could he have not seen thru Palps much earlier?) and the lack of any real emotional power to Anakin and Obi-Wan's showdown (which would require a lot more effort on their characters and convincing friendship, or maybe the lack of having to mediate this relationship thru miscast actors would give the novelist an advantage)? The novel can also solve the disaster of the pivotal scene with Anakin being fitted for the big black suit being ruined through unintentional comedy.
Someone should just go through the PT and rewrite the whole damn thing for novels. The general elements are fine - Obi-Wan and Anakin being friends; friendship forged during the Clone War; Anakin being the Jedi's golden boy; Padme and Anakin having a forbidden romance; Palps being the master manipulator; the Jedi being suspicious of Anakin and Obi-Wan his staunch defender; Padme being a political leader just like Leia would one day be. But the elements were put together in an ineptly dramatized way. A good novelist could fix it all and still have the story at the same end point as in the movies to synch up w/the OT.
Yeah, I read that Zahn thought that Luke's Dark Side stint was far too cheap and unearned to bother with.
And C'Boath is awesome! I mean, sure, he's an annoying old fart, but that's the point; he's the perfect foil to Thrawn, and his insanity makes him not only a vibrant character but positively frightening when the heroes run into him.
If you read the Sith novel I would suggest reading Labyrynth of Evil and Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader. They're actually available in an omnibus with the Revenge of the Sith novel, I believe.
Continuity-wise, Labyrynth of Evil is a bit hard to reconcile with the original Clone Wars 'toons since it has an alternate version of the Battle of Coruscant, but I think it works much better than the old 'toon. It basically sets up the events at the start of Sith and shows Anakin and Obi-Wan as being more friendly.
Rise of Darth Vader takes place almost immeadiatly after Sith, with Anakin starting to truely become Darth Vader. It helps bridge the gap from "NOOOOOO!" to the cold Vader we recognize from the OT.
I would also recommend reading the comics-a great deal of them do tie in with the novels. While some can be ignored, I would suggest checking out Mike Stackpole's Rogue Squadron comics along with the novels, as they detail the backstory of important novel characters (Most notably Baron Fel, an Imperial TIE ace). Star Wars Republic has some cool Clone Wars tales, but unfortunately most of their continuity has been wiped or retconned by the new TV show.
Some of the older video games also tie in with the novels (Such as the Republic Commando series, and the old X-wing/TIE fighter games, which featured Thrawn), but the games largely go on their own tangent nowadays.
Continuity-wise, Labyrynth of Evil is a bit hard to reconcile with the original Clone Wars 'toons since it has an alternate version of the Battle of Coruscant, but I think it works much better than the old 'toon. It basically sets up the events at the start of Sith and shows Anakin and Obi-Wan as being more friendly.
Rise of Darth Vader takes place almost immeadiatly after Sith, with Anakin starting to truely become Darth Vader. It helps bridge the gap from "NOOOOOO!" to the cold Vader we recognize from the OT.
I would also recommend reading the comics-a great deal of them do tie in with the novels. While some can be ignored, I would suggest checking out Mike Stackpole's Rogue Squadron comics along with the novels, as they detail the backstory of important novel characters (Most notably Baron Fel, an Imperial TIE ace). Star Wars Republic has some cool Clone Wars tales, but unfortunately most of their continuity has been wiped or retconned by the new TV show.
Some of the older video games also tie in with the novels (Such as the Republic Commando series, and the old X-wing/TIE fighter games, which featured Thrawn), but the games largely go on their own tangent nowadays.
Regarding the ROTS novelization, I think it does give a pretty good rationale for why Anakin wants to have the rank of a Jedi Master that doesn't make him come off as petulant as he looked in the film. Also, Stover does fill in and add some things, though not as much I had hoped. To be honest, I'm not a big Stover fan.
A lot of SW novel readers rate him highly, but I didn't care for his writing style with ROTS. I also stalled in reading his Shatterpoint and lost interest in Shadows of Mindor, even though I liked the beginning. That being said, I agree with the poster that suggested reading ROTS as part of a novel trilogy with Labyrinth of Evil and Dark Lord. I liked Luceno's books better. Also he adds EU references that I can pick up on a bit easier than Stover did with ROTS.
LOE does a good job setting up ROTS and I liked it better than the Clone Wars Volume 2 cartoon, except for the kidnapping of Palpatine. The cartoon version was more dynamic. In addition to Dark Lord, I recommend the comic one-shot Purge featuring Vader (which should be included in the last volume of the Clone Wars trade). It was a kickass Dark Times era story. There have been two more Purge one-shots since, but the first one was the best.
A lot of SW novel readers rate him highly, but I didn't care for his writing style with ROTS. I also stalled in reading his Shatterpoint and lost interest in Shadows of Mindor, even though I liked the beginning. That being said, I agree with the poster that suggested reading ROTS as part of a novel trilogy with Labyrinth of Evil and Dark Lord. I liked Luceno's books better. Also he adds EU references that I can pick up on a bit easier than Stover did with ROTS.
LOE does a good job setting up ROTS and I liked it better than the Clone Wars Volume 2 cartoon, except for the kidnapping of Palpatine. The cartoon version was more dynamic. In addition to Dark Lord, I recommend the comic one-shot Purge featuring Vader (which should be included in the last volume of the Clone Wars trade). It was a kickass Dark Times era story. There have been two more Purge one-shots since, but the first one was the best.
I have a hard time envisioning a good rationale for Luke to go all Dark Side on us. It would require a lot of character work to push him believably to that point. Leia is a more plausible candidate - more prone to anger - but even in her case, her level-headed practicality would be a strong defense. Both the twins are more insulated from that stuff by their innate personalities than Daddy ever was (good job, Padme and the Organas and even the much-maligned Owen & Beru
). I'll read the graphic novels and see if I think it works. Maybe Dark Side Luke is a storyline that Zahn should take on, if he has high standards about it? What's the rationale? And do they give a good rationale for why he didn't see thru "Mr. Obvious" Palpatine? Personally, I would have written Anakin so that he did see thru him, and didn't care because the Dark Side offers more power. Egotism, hubris and power lust is rationale enough for him. The wa wa wa stuff with Padme strained credibility.
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