tell me about Star Wars novels!

[DarKush]

From what I recall, only Jedi Masters were privy to certain information in the Jedi Archives. Anakin wanted access to those archives to find a way to prevent Padme's death.

Was that in the movie? Did the Jedi have a good reason not to let Anakin see even the info that could save Padme's life? And why was she in danger anyway? Don't these people have good enough medical care that death in childbirth should be unheard of?

Of course Palpatine was obvious to us, but I don't think he was the obvious choice for the Jedi.

The way he was hamming it up in the movie should have given it away to anyone who was reasonably adept at reading people. It wasn't really necessary to keep Palps' motives from Anakin for so long. Just make Anakin increasingly frustrated by the limitations on his power that the Jedi keep slapping on him. Power lust, not concern for Padme, was the right way to kick him to the Dark Side because it wouldn't require that we believe the Republic has FTL tech but medieval health care. Lucas overdid the concern that we'd hate Anakin, but he already blew that in the guy he cast. Instead, he should have cast an immensely likable actor which would have given him the leeway to write the character as less likable.

I don't think the part about the Jedi Masters having access to certain info was in ROTS. So when Anakin balked at not being made a master, it came off as him being whiny and overambitious. Before the events on Mustafar all Anakin's visions showed was her in pain, her dying. He didn't know how. So I can't assume he would think that medical technology could handle it. Padme might have been in a place without proper medical staff or tech for example. Plus, Anakin was still fighting a war where he was seeing lots of death constantly, so I'm sure he's aware of the limitations of medicine. And perhaps the limitations of any Force healing techniques.

Padme had to die to get her out of the way plotwise. Though I think the way she died could've been better. If I had had my druthers, I would've ditched the Queen/Senator storyline and made her a Jedi. In her attempts to stop or redeem Anakin, he cuts her down in combat, perhaps accidentally, but the wounds are fatal.

The way GL had Padme dying of a 'broken heart' was stupid. For one, it didn't fit Padme's character. In TPM and AOTC we saw that she was tough and that she was a fighter. She would never give up on Anakin, nor would she allow her children to be born, unprotected, in Palpatine's Empire. Two, GL kept trying to sell us on Anakin the hero even as he turned Anakin into Vader. GL pulled his punches and wouldn't let Anakin kill Padme, in a physical sense at least. As I said, I would've had it accidental, but still Anakin would've struck the blow. Maybe with Force lightning since we never got to see Vader do that.

I do think that GL erred in not making Anakin an anti-hero from jump, and having Obi Wan be the hero of the PT, its heart and soul.

About Luke in ROTJ, I think Hammil did a good job with the dark side seduction. I remember those naked looks on his face when Vader taunted him or as the Emperor tempted him, gesturing to the lightsaber sitting on his armrest. And when it started to shake. Luke wanted that lightsaber, he wanted to strike the Emperor down. I felt that, and eventually he gave in to it. Hammil conveyed that very well IMO.

 

[DarKush]

^ I was just thinking that myself. It really is the pinnacle of the EU...the same with "Dark Empire" for the comics.

Since I've only read one-third of the Thrawn trilogy, plus Outbound Flight, I can't say that Zahn's books are the pinnacle for me, though I know they pretty much established the novel portion of the EU. For me, I think the NJO was the pinnacle. It was such a massive undertaking, with a nice mix of old and new heroes and a pretty original threat.

As for the comics, I'm not sure about DE either being the pinnacle. I've really enjoyed so much of the Dark Horse stuff that it's hard to say one is a tentpole. I guess it could be DE, but the Knights of the Old Republic, Republic, Dark Times, and Legacy comics have all been pretty good. Also some of their older work like Tales of the Jedi, the Sith War, etc.

 

[Mr Light]

Hunh. I never thought of that before. Making Padme a Jedi would have been so much better. That way she can participate in the action sequences. And maybe they could drop her namby pampy pacifist persona then too. And it doesn't interfere with Leia's ancestry because she was adopted anyway. Bail Organa was a friend to the Jedi after all. It also makes Anakin falling in love with her work a lot better; because as a child he reveres the Jedi and meets this bad ass chick one and they grow up training together.

 

[RandyS]

This thread makes me want to check some of these books out and I don't even like Star Wars that much

Heck, it's inspired me to re-read the Thrawn Trilogy. It's been so long since I read it last that it almost might seem like a new experience.

That's odd. I was thinking the same thing. I read it over Christmas back in 1993, and remember very little. When did you read it?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

This thread makes me want to check some of these books out and I don't even like Star Wars that much

I have a love/hate relationship with Star Wars that is probably 80% hate but I think I'm suffering from space opera withdrawl. Since BSG ended we got nothing but Star Trek movies every three years, which is way way way too little and I'm getting desperate. I've been hearing for years that at least some of the books are pretty good - the rainy day I've been saving them for has come.

I don't think the part about the Jedi Masters having access to certain info was in ROTS. So when Anakin balked at not being made a master, it came off as him being whiny and overambitious.

Yeah there definitely was some big chunk of motivation that was missing.

Before the events on Mustafar all Anakin's visions showed was her in pain, her dying. He didn't know how. So I can't assume he would think that medical technology could handle it. Padme might have been in a place without proper medical staff or tech for example. Plus, Anakin was still fighting a war where he was seeing lots of death constantly, so I'm sure he's aware of the limitations of medicine. And perhaps the limitations of any Force healing techniques.

Introducing the whole medical angle was a mistake on Lucas' part. It raises questions and it's too complicated for a story that should be streamlined and simple like mythology. Anakin wants power. The Dark Side appears to be the shortcut to power. Boom, there's your story.

Padme had to die to get her out of the way plotwise. Though I think the way she died could've been better. If I had had my druthers, I would've ditched the Queen/Senator storyline and made her a Jedi. In her attempts to stop or redeem Anakin, he cuts her down in combat, perhaps accidentally, but the wounds are fatal.

That's an interesting angle, but I like the idea of Padme being a "regular person" (like Han in the OT). I would have simply had her commit suicide when she realized it was the only way to convince Anakin that the twins had never been born because it solves the problem that it's implausible he wouldn't search for them, and also allows Padme's sacrifice to be the direct (if eventual) cause of the Empire's downfall.

Making Padme a Jedi would have been so much better. That way she can participate in the action sequences.

Han never had trouble participating in action sequences despite not being a Jedi. Lucas just should have made more effort with Padme instead of treating her as a Barbie doll to play dress up with.

It also makes Anakin falling in love with her work a lot better; because as a child he reveres the Jedi and meets this bad ass chick one and they grow up training together.

I think Anakin had enough motive for falling in love with Padme - she's beautiful, intelligent, idealistic, powerful (why wouldn't an incipient Sith be attracted to that?) and has a good heart. The reverse is where I have a problem, since Anakin was presented as such a whiny, off-putting punk with a distinct stalker vibe. Despite being tall and very good looking, his personality would have grated after about ten seconds with him. I'm sure Padme would have plenty of much better options.

Padme needed something of a rewrite but Anakin needed a total rewrite and recasting.

The way GL had Padme dying of a 'broken heart' was stupid. For one, it didn't fit Padme's character. In TPM and AOTC we saw that she was tough and that she was a fighter. She would never give up on Anakin, nor would she allow her children to be born, unprotected, in Palpatine's Empire.

Absolutely. She had two babies to protect, and that would have given her a fierce will to live. My idea for her committing suicide would only be under extreme duress and only after she'd entrusted them to Obi-Wan and needed to get Anakin off their trail.

Two, GL kept trying to sell us on Anakin the hero even as he turned Anakin into Vader. GL pulled his punches and wouldn't let Anakin kill Padme, in a physical sense at least.

Lucas would have needed to cast someone of immense charisma in the role and then he would have had the luxury of writing him in a much more negative way, without having to make up excuses like "he fell to the Dark Side because he loved Padme too much," but only after Anakin had been sold to the audience as a golden boy/war hero with great positive qualities. Hubris and power lust should have been his only negative traits, but enough to do him in. Then he could have done awful things like accidentally kill Padme (which is also what happens in essence under my suicide scenario) and keep enough of the audience's sympathy that the situation seems tragic.

 

[Skywalker]

This thread makes me want to check some of these books out and I don't even like Star Wars that much

Heck, it's inspired me to re-read the Thrawn Trilogy. It's been so long since I read it last that it almost might seem like a new experience.

That's odd. I was thinking the same thing. I read it over Christmas back in 1993, and remember very little. When did you read it?

Summer of 1996, if I remember right. So, yeah, a long time.

 

[DarKush]

Temis,

Even as a Queen and Senator Padme was already involved in action sequences. As a regular person, I think it might have required a bit more story telling ability than GL seemed willing to expend to explain why she's caught up in the action. Even though I thought Padme might've worked better as a Jedi (which I will elaborate on in a moment), her high rank made it more plausible to put her in the middle of these big galactic storylines with personal stuff at stake in all three films. In TPM, she was trying to save her planet, in AOTC, someone was trying to assassinate her, and in ROTS, she was trying to save democracy (in deleted scenes, sigh) and trying to redeem Anakin.

Why I liked the idea of Padme as a Jedi. One, it would've introduced a strong female Jedi character into the universe. Today, we've got Ashoka. TPM and AOTC introduced us to quite a few Jedi females but they got almost zero development and were pretty much in the background. With Padme as a Jedi it would've given us a female Jedi that could be as logically placed in the action as any of the guys without having to have a convoluted reason for her being there.

I think Jedi Padme hooking up with Anakin also would've made more sense because at least it starts them out with something they have in common. Anakin and Padme from the films had almost zero in common and their relationship felt inorganic. True that Leia and Han had nothing in common at first, but they made their oil/water relationship work. It had sizzle. It was also forged after spending quite a bit of time fighting for their lives, living almost constantly on the edge. Anakin and Padme's was limp in comparison and seemed more about meeting plot points than breathing life to a real relationship.

Did either character really change in relation to the other? How did Anakin or Padme's relationship change the other? If any change occurred it made each other worse. Anakin became more obssessed with holding on to her and Padme lost her fighting spirit. I guess that kind of stuff does happen in real relationships, but its not something I want to see on the screen. I liked the changes Han and Leia produced in each other a lot more.

If Padme and Anakin were both Jedi, having that experience gives them something to talk about right off the bat. Plus seeing them together more in action. Seeing Padme kick tail with a lightsaber, all of that would've been cool. It also would've added more weight to them keeping their relationship a secret. As you pointed out, it shouldn't be that big of a deal if Padme is pregnant as a Senator (though I'm sure the media would've been hounding her and others to find out who the father was). But if both were Jedi, I could see how both would want to protect the other. And since it was so forbidden, the eventual giving in to temptation could've been all the sweeter and ultimately more tragic. Something like Adam and Eve or the seduction of Paris/Helen of Troy. Both of them could've been facing a true fall from grace, but were willing to risk it for love.

Padme as Jedi would also explain the reason Luke is so powerful without the need for midi-chlorians, which I thought was another stupid thing GL introduced via the prequels. I liked the Force as a mystical concept, not the result of genetics.

Going further, I probably would've had Padme not tell Anakin that she was pregnant, perhaps hide it with the Force because she was afraid he would want them to leave the Order, and while she was trying to figure out the best way to break the news to him, he goes dark side. She goes after him. She tries to talk him down. Finally, she's about to reveal the truth, in the hopes that it will redeem him. Obi Wan is watching from the shadows. He gives Padme that last shot to redeem him. To him she's failing and he feels forced to act. Padme doesn't want to give up yet. Unfortunately Obi Wan reveals himself, and it somewhat proceeds from there like it actually did in the film. Though it would at first be Obi and Padme versus Anakin, but he outduels them both, hits Padme with some vicious Force lightning. Hurting Padme enrages Anakin. He blames Obi and to some extent Padme for making him do it. Obi is shocked and angered that Anakin hurt Padme. She told Obi about the kids before they went on the mission. It makes the battle more fierce.

I know a lot of people hate Hayden Christensen, but I didn't have a problem with him. I thought he had a nice dark side look. I blame GL's direction more than Hayden's action for whatever problems I had with Anakin's depiction. Though if it had been me I probably would've gone with an older actor, perhaps someone like Rick Schroeder. If it was the 80s, probably would've gone with Kiefer Sutherland.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Jedi Padme is fine with me. Before the PT, I just assumed that Luke and Leia's mom was a Jedi (not sure why).

Anakin and Padme from the films had almost zero in common and their relationship felt inorganic.

That's because of the lack of genuine chemistry between the actors and how badly Anakin was written. Write him as someone worthy of Padme's love and cast a guy who has chemistry and isn't off-putting, and there's no reason it couldn't have worked.

Seeing Padme kick tail with a lightsaber, all of that would've been cool.

Yep. I'm surprised at ole George for being so cruel of depriving the fanboys of that.

I know a lot of people hate Hayden Christensen, but I didn't have a problem with him. I thought he had a nice dark side look. I blame GL's direction more than Hayden's action for whatever problems I had with Anakin's depiction.

I've never seen Hayden in any role where he wasn't playing a sullen punk. Maybe he does have more range. Lucas certainly wasn't helping with his awful writing and direction. Natalie Portman was also bad but I've seen her turn in great performances in other stuff and she might win an Oscar for her new movie.

Padme as Jedi would also explain the reason Luke is so powerful

That's probably why I assumed that both his parents were Jedi, which presumably would have been a rarity.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I forgot to ask about other S1 Clone Wars episodes - skip or watch?

"Blue Shadow Virus"
"Mystery of a Thousand Moons"
"Storm Over Ryloth"
"Innocents of Ryloth"
"Liberty on Ryloth"

 

[Mr Light]

DEFINITELY skip the virus/moons two parter. It's embarrassing. Lots of Jar Jar and the stupidest villain in the show so far.

The Ryloth trilogy, I thought was just alright. Others seemed to like it more.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Thanks. Star Wars fans should win some kind of prize for fast service! I've never had such quick answers to questions on other topics. Do you guys have Jedi sense about new posts being made?

 

[Silvercrest]

Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future. But easy is the thread notification tool. Mmm? Mmm? (whacks Temis with his cane)

 

[captcalhoun]

^LOL...

BSV has a major "duh, you're a FUCKING JEDI!" moment. someone throws a phial containing the virus and Anakin does this major diving save thing. and i was like, "USE THE FUCKING FORCE!!!!"

 

[fett51]

The Ryloth trilogy was good, not brilliant, but good. The only reason to watch the virus episodes are if you have a pressing need to see jar jar get tortured, though I'm not even sure that is worth enduring the guy they have doing his voice now. Mercifully he was absent from season 2, and hopefully season 3 as well. Before you ask, Hostage Crisis, the last episode of season 1, is definitely one to check out.

 

[Mr Light]

For some reason I found the animation in the Ryloth trilogy to look really undetailed, cheap, and rushed. It's funny how some episodes look gorgeous and other ones look so crappy.

Yeah, "Hostage Crisis" is definitely good. Introduces a five episode arc into the next season.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future. But easy is the thread notification tool. Mmm? Mmm? (whacks Temis with his cane)

So you guys are online 24/7?!? Or does the thread notifcation zap directly to your brains?

 

[fett51]

For some reason I found the animation in the Ryloth trilogy to look really undetailed, cheap, and rushed. It's funny how some episodes look gorgeous and other ones look so crappy.

Yeah, "Hostage Crisis" is definitely good. Introduces a five episode arc into the next season.

Looking at the season by production number gives some clue as to why, the ryloth episodes were produced halfway through season one, but everything we'd seen since the dooku episodes was produced at the end of season 1 or in early season 2. Shows how quickly they improved the animation, at least.

 

[JD]

^LOL...

BSV has a major "duh, you're a FUCKING JEDI!" moment. someone throws a phial containing the virus and Anakin does this major diving save thing. and i was like, "USE THE FUCKING FORCE!!!!"

I've noticed quite a bit of that in the show. I love it, but for some reason it seems like the Jedi don't use the Force anywhere near as much as one would expect... or want.

The Ryloth trilogy was good, not brilliant, but good. The only reason to watch the virus episodes are if you have a pressing need to see jar jar get tortured, though I'm not even sure that is worth enduring the guy they have doing his voice now. Mercifully he was absent from season 2, and hopefully season 3 as well. Before you ask, Hostage Crisis, the last episode of season 1, is definitely one to check out.

For some reason I found the animation in the Ryloth trilogy to look really undetailed, cheap, and rushed. It's funny how some episodes look gorgeous and other ones look so crappy.

Yeah, "Hostage Crisis" is definitely good. Introduces a five episode arc into the next season.

And the new character it introduces will be continuing into Season 3.

 

[Silvercrest]

Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future. But easy is the thread notification tool. Mmm? Mmm? (whacks Temis with his cane)

So you guys are online 24/7?!? Or does the thread notifcation zap directly to your brains?

Hey, don't ask me. I haven't actually contributed anything. I just wanted to do a Yoda impression.

 

[Whofan]

I would also recommend, in addition to the comics and novels, trying out some of the video games.

Some are quite old and might not run on current computers, but here's a rundown of some of the best ones:

-The Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series. 3D-first person, kind of doom clones but decent. Basically you start as a mercenary who has to stop the development of an uber-Stormtrooper, and then you become a Jedi Knight (or a Sith Lord, if you choose the alternate ending). Be warned though, the acting in the cut scenes make the prequels look good.

The games in the series are:

-Dark Forces
-Dark Forces II:Jedi Knight
-Jedi Knight: Mysteries of the Sith
-Jedi Outcast
-Jedi Academy

The graphics are dated but the games are still fun. The Jedi Knight game was also adapted into novel form, and Kyle himself appears in a few novels and comics as a supporting character. Games are mainly available for PC but I think some were ported to the Playstation.

X-wing/Tie Fighter series-A series of immersive space fighter simulators. The X-wing one mainly takes place between ANH and ESB, as you help develop the B-wing and evacuate the Rebel base on Yavin to get to Hoth. Then TIE fighter has you play an Imperial fighter Ace, and it also guest-stars Grand Admiral Thrawn. The last game, X-wing Alliance lets you play the captain of a Falconesque ship and has the strongest story of all the games.


Knights Of The Old Republic series-These action RPGs basically take place thousands of years before the movies and are probably the best SW games. A third installment is also being made, but as an MMO. Available for PC and first-gen X-box.


The Rogue Squadron games-They don't have the freedom of X-wing games but they look pretty good. They are more or less exclusive to Nintendo although some are on PC. Wonder if they'll ever release a Wii one.


Battlefront-Similar to the Battlefield games, and covers all the movies. Also the only game I think where you get to steer an AT-AT.

Games to avoid
---------------------------

Most of the Real-time strategy games are pretty bad. The exception is Galactic Battlegrounds, although that's mainly just Age of Empires with a Star Wars skin.

Almost any prequel game, including Clone Wars. These were mainly rushed tie-ins. There a few decent ones such as Starfighter, Republic Commando and Pod Racer but overall, they stink.

Masters of Teri-kasi-Poor attempt at a fighting game.

Demolition-Twisted metal SW ripoff, pretty much.

Rebel Assault-Basically FMV rail-shooters, not much fun.

Galaxies-First attempt at a Star Wars MMO, outdated and tedious.