We'll know know what they say about people from West Milwaukee.
Spoilers Tech issue with 1x06
- Thread starter RobertCardassian
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We'll know know what they say about people from West Milwaukee.
Haha so? I was laughing the whole time while I changed it too. People kept bringing up memory alpha's stance on canon as if that carries weight. Memory Alpha's position on the matter is whatever the last person who modified it says it is. It's a Red herring. Defending a questionable canon thing such as the holodeck on discovery with a questionable canon source like the animated series is also counter productive. It's a bait and switch fallacy
But the fact that your edites were immediately deleted shows that it does maintain a constant policy and not just the opinion of random editors.
Furthermore we have already demonstrated that the existance of the simulation room in Discovery is not necessarily contradicted by the previously mentioned TNG and VGR episodes even without having to rely on the rec room from TAS.
It was not a random editor who changed it back actually. The original page creator did it. A single person who moderates the changes over the years
First of all, if you did this on purpose to make a point about Memory Alpha, then why didn't you... you know, make the point? You had plenty of opportunity to do so over the last 20 or so posts in the thread, but apparently you were happy to leave it unsaid until you were called out on it.
Your point falls flat anyway, because no one relied on MA alone. The original statement cites its source, and so did we. You can't just pull something out of your ass and pretend it has equivalent merit.
If your goal was to prove that MA isn't reliable, then your experiment backfired spectacularly. It proved its integrity here. The real lesson we have learned is that you are perfectly content to lie in an attempt to win an argument.
Uh, no. The creator of the page was a user listed as Jasonr (now going by MinutiaeMan). Sulfur who deleted your addition only edited the article 18 times out of the nearly 200 edits it received since 2003 and most of these changes seemed to be cosmetic in nature, like link fixes and template changes.
Being the generous guy that I am, it's possible that Discovery just has the first holodeck since it is a military ship for the same reasons that the military had the first cell phones and first access to the network that we call the internet today. It's a pretty shakey explanation at best given how the holocommunication devices are common place as well.
Is it possible that Picard's amazement with the holodeck in series 1 was down to his ignorance of these things? He's a book worm, and the be a fair, a bit of a snob, preferring the genuine article over cheap imitations and naturally shunned the false experiences on offer by these contraptions.
When he finally uses one, he loves it and is immediately converted and becomes an instant holobore, telling all who will listen, and being captain, that's everyone. The rest of the crew is just humouring him.
When he finally uses one, he loves it and is immediately converted and becomes an instant holobore, telling all who will listen, and being captain, that's everyone. The rest of the crew is just humouring him.
You should really stop name-dropping "logical fallacies" that you obviously googled for 2 minutes and don't really understand.
"Hello CBS, I haven't seen any indication that CBS has taken an official position on this, so could you please take down this indication that you have taken an official position on this?"
But that is not necessarily the explanation for holo-communication. David Mack's theory was that due to the holo transmissions having taking up too much bandwith and being easier to hack into they were eventually discarded, presumably before TOS. Also due to their instable nature as seen in the previous Discovery episodes they really aren't as pleasant to look at compared to a normal screen to screen communication.
So you're asking CBS if the show listed under the official canon section of their licensed website is officially canon? In all seriousness I am looking forward to their reponse.
Edit: Zar beat me to the punch
Meh. It's effectively a holographic target range. If I'm honest, my only seemingly irreconcilable issues with Discovery, revolve around the Klingons. Nothing banning Gillette razors, and all H.R. Giger influences from their redesign couldn't fix though.
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I had to dig a bit to find the word canon associated with their database. The star trek website was poorly constructed. I'm sure they didn't put much thought into putting that word "canon" in there along with the animated series.But that is not necessarily the explanation for holo-communication. David Mack's theory was that due to the holo transmissions having taking up too much bandwith and being easier to hack into they were eventually discarded, presumably before TOS. Also due to their instable nature as seen in the previous Discovery episodes they really aren't as pleasant to look at compared to a normal screen to screen communication.
So you're asking CBS if the show listed under the official canon section of their licensed website is officially canon? In all seriousness I am looking forward to their reponse.
Edit: Zar beat me to the punch
...The only remaining angle of interest here is, are the partial vaporization effects (cutesy holes, sometimes all the way through victims much as in ENT "The Augments") depicted supposed to be realistic for the phasers of the day, or unrealistic due to the shortcomings/shortcuts of the holographic shooting range?
Burnham's Phaser II dug a similar hole into T'Kumva's neck, but not all the way through. And the "total vaporization" towards the end of the shooting simulation seems to be the simulation giving up and shutting down, rather than a realistic depicting of weapons effects.
Timo Saloniemi
Burnham's Phaser II dug a similar hole into T'Kumva's neck, but not all the way through. And the "total vaporization" towards the end of the shooting simulation seems to be the simulation giving up and shutting down, rather than a realistic depicting of weapons effects.
Timo Saloniemi
Perhaps they didn't. I don't think this matter deserved much thought in the first place. Star Trek canon is made up of the series and movies, and TAS is a series.
As was pointed out previously in this thread information from TAS was incorporated into startrek.com in 2007. CBS has the ultimate control over the page and I doubt that they would allow TAS to be included on the list of official Trek canon if they considered it non-canon.
In the end it probably comes down to the fact that canon isn't really important to CBS. As a company it is their goal to make money. I'd imagine that the creators are the only ones who really require to know what exactly is canon since they need to know what they are allowed to contradict and what not.
I think we've finally found some common ground.
The exact nature and location of that facility were never specified. Bashir was sleep-deprived, too, and only just realizing that he'd been beamed off the station (or had he?). And at best (for your position), all it would prove is that at least some holodecks—which again, the "Inquisition" facility actually wasn't specifically called by anyone there, though I agree that's what it appears to be—are holosuites, not that all holosuites are holodecks, a conclusion that is separately counter-indicated by the "Take Me Out..." passage.
Anyway, with all respect, it seems to me that you are the one "trying to turn nothing into something" (or something into nothing?) by looking for ways of pulling apart the threads that connect the seams between the series instead of ways to tie everything together. To me, that seems like working in the wrong direction if continuity is your thing. But to each his own.
That's more the spirit!
If it makes you feel any better, the same Harry Kim who made the statement about no holodecks or replicators in the 2290s based on what he learned in his Starfleet History class at the Academy (this discussion makes me imagine an instructor's patience being tried in meticulously and repeatedly attempting to explain to Cadet Kim exactly why protein resequencers are not true replicators and holographic combat simulators are not true holodecks, ultimately needing to refer him to the Engineering department for further details) also enjoyed "holostories" as a child per "Once Upon A Time" (VGR). That wouldn't have been the 23rd century, of course, but more than a decade before TNG. Holotech seems to have been in common use in children's toys and games by then. Why not adult toys and games, even before that?
"The Big Goodbye" (TNG) starts off with Troi specifically mentioning that Picard has "been looking forward to the upgrade of the holodeck" and like Riker in "Farpoint" the novelty cited in his comments is about the incredible sensory reality of the simulation. The mere existence and use of such a facility are not portrayed as entirely new or unfamiliar to either. Nor was such intended by Roddenberry, who had come up with the idea by the second season of TOS and planned for it to be built and shown in the third as he relates in the The Making Of Star Trek, originally published between the two:
"MEN AND WOMEN ON A STARSHIP, SO LONG OUT OF CONTACT WITH EARTH AND SO LONG AWAY FROM OTHER PLANETS, TOO, WILL REQUIRE A FEELING OF FRESH AIR AND SKY AND WIND AND SCENTS. BECAUSE WE ARE, IN MANY RESPECTS, STILL ANIMALS, OUR MENTAL AND EMOTIONAL EQUILIBRIUM WILL REQUIRE THE FAMILIARITY OF THIS. MAN HAS BEEN TOO LONG A PART OF EARTH TO BE TOO LONG SEPARATED. THEREFORE WE INTEND TO BUILD A SIMULATED 'OUTDOOR' RECREATION AREA WHICH GIVES A REALISTIC FEELING OF SKY, BREEZES, PLANTS, FOUNTAINS, AND SO FORTH..."
A combination of Roddenberry stepping down as line producer for the third season, time & budgetary restrictions, and ultimately cancellation prevented this from being seen on the live action show, but naturally the concept was still in place that the Enterprise had this facility, and the animated revival featured it in "The Practical Joker" as has been mentioned. Whether you count that or not isn't the point here. The point is that in Roddenberry's mind this sort of thing had been a feature of Kirk's ship, and what he was presenting in TNG was a newly updated and upgraded version so excellent that even those who'd already experienced older models would be positively blown away—one hopes in the figurative rather than literal sense, but it's always a crap shoot—by its performance. (Rather reflective of his overall "vision" [pardon the phrase] for the whole show, eh?)
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Here is the Definitely Real response from CBS:
"Hello sir thank you for alerting us to this error on star track.com, we will correct it asap. Also holograms in discovery isnt cannon, sorry someone let nick meyer out of his cage again oops haha. Yours truely, CSB."
An external company was hired by CBS to design that website. The word choice to call the database itself " official canon database" was probably an oversight on their part.
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