TBBS and treatment of women

[Locutus of Bored]

And even though I do go to TNZ to read a few threads now and again, and I have indeed read some serious threads there through the years, I do not post there and therefore I guess I have less of a leeway to make such a sarcastic joke. And to think that I even underlined it was a joke.

But it's ok, I get it, the situation is tense, bad timing, there's no room for jesters, and so on and so forth. I really just meant it as a quick laugh for everyone. I guess I won't be making a career as a stand up comedian any time soon.

While I agree that given the tense nature of the thread maybe it was bad timing, I did get that you were making a joke. But it led to follow-up comments that were being serious by people who have made similar kinds of comments before (amongst others in this thread), and it wouldn't have made any sense if I quoted them without the context provided by your post that started that train of thought.

This has been a recurring problem for over a year now, with spats between certain TNZ posters and mods here, and insults and falsehoods made by posters here about TNZ posters and what goes on there. It's a problem we've been trying to stop along with the one about female posters feeling uncomfortable. It's all related to the general issue of posters here being made to feel alienated and not having a good time. My point is that it's not just a one-way problem and everyone needs to be more conscious of what they're saying.

One thing I do not like though. You've been here long enough to see, understand and know the differences between these two forums, you know that there is in fact, and that there always has been, an underlying feeling of "those down there" and "those up there" between the two, so what's the point of going on a tirade about how much more civilised TNZ posters can be and how the worst clusterfucks and most bitter and insulting knock down drag out fights take place in the public forums? Your words, not mine, by the way.

You misunderstood my words, though. Nowhere did I say TNZ posters were more civilized. I made it a point of saying they are the same people who post in Miscellaneous and the rest of the board so they're largely indistinguishable. What I did do was to provide examples to counter the myth that everything is so much more hostile and uncivilized and immature in TNZ. Providing counter-examples doesn't mean the people who posted in them are more civilized in general, it just means that contrary to popular belief, the people in TNZ can hold the same kind of discussion we're having in Miscellaneous without it descending into chaos, and that no particular group is better or more enlightened than the other here.

You don't think that's going to flare up some more discussion?

Isn't that the whole point of this thread?

I take my responsibility for my joke that was posted at the wrong time, but yours sounds a bit like an over-reaction to me.

I made a joke, stupid and out of place as it was, and it looks to me like you were the one who rode in on a high horse this time. Just my impression. Your mileage may vary.

I'm sorry if it came off that way. I've got no problem with you or wish to argue with you. As I said, I was trying to combat a recurring problem between the Miscellaneous and TNZ forums and make people think about what they're saying about other posters here before submitting their post, which is the spirit the thread was started in if not the exact point.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

But the mods tell us to "call for the offender's chastisement". The alternative is to start a big fight every time someone posts something derogatory, which they don't want. Now personally I would prefer to deal with it myself in thread but I know this isn't what is wanted. And no, PM's are not the way to deal with it because that way the behavior still stands in thread unchallenged.

I and the other mods would be perfectly fine with someone politely saying "that makes me uncomfortable" or something similar in a thread. In fact I mentioned that it's okay to do that earlier here, and I believe that was part of what Robert was hoping for as well along with more consideration from posters themselves. I'd be thrilled if people took initiative and responsibility and did that, while understanding completely if they'd prefer to hit the notify button and let us handle it instead.

Not to single anyone out, but she's my friend so I doubt she'll mind; Kestra has no problem whatsoever pointing out when she considers something rude or if it makes her feel uncomfortable, and because she does it politely, people respect that and generally don't make a problem. She almost always handles her own problems here and is a still a highly respected member of the board who doesn't get in a lot of fights and has never been warned, so it's not like pointing out that something bothers you is going to cause you a bunch of grief if you do it the right way.

Though, I should say that "call for the offender's chastisement" doesn't really come across as the most productive attitude to look at it with. That's not really what we're trying to go for. Many people are simply unaware of how their behavior is making others feel, so instead of chastising them, trying to politely inform them of how it makes others feel is the way to go.

Also, I disagree about not PM'ing people on your own. If you feel they can be politely reasoned with, go for it. I've settled several disputes via PM. Not everything has to be a public spectacle, and many people are more receptive to a more private discussion. But either option is available to you and others, as is notification.

 

[Gov Kodos]

That last comment reminds me of Franklin's advice to John Adams in the 2008 miniseries"
"It is perfectly acceptable to insult a man in private and he may even thank you for it afterwards but when you do so publicly, it tends to make them think you are serious."
Assuming intent, and concluding discussion is irrelevant before even trying is a recipe for disaster. I tend to go along with Jenee's point to try talking and refrain from reacting until discovering the other persons intent and capacity to be open to mutual respect.

 

[Kestra]

Not to single anyone out, but she's my friend so I doubt she'll mind; Kestra has no problem whatsoever pointing out when she considers something rude or if it makes her feel uncomfortable, and because she does it politely, people respect that and generally don't make a problem. She almost always handles her own problems here and is a still a highly respected member of the board who doesn't get in a lot of fights and has never been warned, so it's not like pointing out that something bothers you is going to cause you a bunch of grief if you do it the right way.

Don't mind at all! Just a bit embarrassed. I keep trying to cut down on scolding people and I keep failing horribly!

And I know I'm probably more sensitive than most people here (and I have lost my temper and gotten an infraction once!) but I guess it's about personal levels. Would I rather sit and fume about something someone posted, or would I rather try to address it? I agree that a lot of times people don't realize that they may be offending another person.

It's difficult to approach someone because you might not want to seem confrontational or overly fussy. I'm guilty of that myself, especially if it's something sexual. I usually just keep quiet. But ultimately you have to judge for yourself just how much something bothers you. If it bothers you enough, it's worth trying to talk it over with the person in question. I've actually made some terrific friends through private messaging and have gotten to know different sides of posters. One of my best friends online is someone I only contacted because I was furious with him.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Holy crap, I didn't know you got an infraction. That's like Rainbow Bright busting a cap in someone's ass. Now you're making me look bad. I take back everything I said.

 

[Kestra]

Holy crap, I didn't know you got an infraction. That's like Rainbow Bright busting a cap in someone's ass. Now you're making me look bad. I take back everything I said.

I knew exactly what I was doing at the time too. And apologized to the mod who had to warn me. And then apologized to the other poster privately. If it makes you feel any better, the thing I was mad about was someone having an overly cynical view of humanity. I mean seriously, who else besides me would get so mad over cynicism that they'd be willing to get an infraction for it?!

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Holy crap, I didn't know you got an infraction. That's like Rainbow Bright busting a cap in someone's ass. Now you're making me look bad. I take back everything I said.

I knew exactly what I was doing at the time too. And apologized to the mod who had to warn me. And then apologized to the other poster privately. If it makes you feel any better, the thing I was mad about was someone having an overly cynical view of humanity. I mean seriously, who else besides me would get so mad over cynicism that they'd be willing to get an infraction for it?!

That helps piece back together my shattered illusions a bit, but now I know I need to keep an eye on you before you start a rumble.

(sorry, all my gang references are either from 90s rap or musicals set in the 50s)

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

LoB--Just to be clear, the "barf" icon was for the Chuck-E-Cheese comment (gave me a "squick" moment), not anything (TNZ-related) that had gone before it.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Sorry for the misunderstanding then.

 

[Jetfire]

LoB--Just to be clear, the "barf" icon was for the Chuck-E-Cheese comment (gave me a "squick" moment), not anything (TNZ-related) that had gone before it.

Hey! Don't disrespect Chuck-E-Cheese!!!

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ The operative word being "chuck"...

 

[O'Dib]

The creepiest thing I encounter on these boards is the all the Chloe-drooling over in the Smallville threads. I don't understand why people don't just wank one off if they feel so inclined, as opposed to talking about all the things they'd like to do to a fictional character.

 

[Gov Kodos]

The creepiest thing I encounter on these boards is the all the Chloe-drooling over in the Smallville threads. I don't understand why people don't just wank one off if they feel so inclined, as opposed to talking about all the things they'd like to do to a fictional character.

Such drooling may be annoying, far more so is the inevitable going to the bunk comments. TMI

 

[RJDiogenes]

Personally, I think everyone is crazy.

Warning for Flaming everybody. Comments to TNZ.

What issue? You are either an adult and can handle the situation like an adult or you cry.

Considering the level of sensitivity over this subject, it might be a good idea for everyone to try to use the word "someone" instead of the generic plural "you" to avoid misunderstanding. Or "youze," although you may end up mentioned in the Grammar Nazi Thread.

 

[Amaris]

Personally, I think everyone is crazy.

Warning for Flaming everybody. Comments to TNZ.

What issue? You are either an adult and can handle the situation like an adult or you cry.

Considering the level of sensitivity over this subject, it might be a good idea for everyone to try to use the word "someone" instead of the generic plural "you" to avoid misunderstanding. Or "youze," although you may end up mentioned in the Grammar Nazi Thread.

Warning for wearing that hat with those shoes. Comments to Banana Republic.

 

[Jenee]

Personally, I think everyone is crazy.

Warning for Flaming everybody. Comments to TNZ.

What issue? You are either an adult and can handle the situation like an adult or you cry.

Considering the level of sensitivity over this subject, it might be a good idea for everyone to try to use the word "someone" instead of the generic plural "you" to avoid misunderstanding. Or "youze," although you may end up mentioned in the Grammar Nazi Thread.

I've gone out of my way to be certain my posts were not ... intending to be taken offensively - even apologized for inadvertently saying something offensive. Yet, I've still been told my thinking is muddled and I've no idea what I'm talking about.

Guess it's time to go back to TNZ where people act like adults.

 

[Rincewiend]

Holy crap, I didn't know you got an infraction. That's like Rainbow Bright busting a cap in someone's ass. Now you're making me look bad. I take back everything I said.

Meh, you gave me one Friday because i blew my top...
I was tired and read/took SPOCKED's post the wrong way, in combination with some other posts made by other members and mods, it just made me a bit peeved off...
But i got the bug that was crawling up my butt out and put it in my avatar, so i'm cool now...

 

[Alidar Jarok]

Guess it's time to go back to TNZ where people act like adults.

If your goal is to have your posts not taken as offensive, this, honestly, isn't helping. There's already enough of a Misc-TNZ divide without the need to suggest that everyone outside of TNZ act like children.

 

[Iasius]

Maybe we need a reconciliation thread regarding Misc/TNZ relations?

Seriously though, I think a certain amount of estrangement between regular Misc and regular TNZ posters is natural. I think people tend to be a bit quick to denounce any comparisons, even joking ones, because they had a few bad experiences.

Which isn't even that far off topic in this thread as it may seem at first glance.




(I don't intend to say the plight of women on this board is comparable to the plight of TNZ posters in Misc, or vice versa, by that. For some reason I felt I had to point that out.)

 

[Roshi]

Maybe we need a reconciliation thread regarding Misc/TNZ relations?

Make up sex?