TBBS and treatment of women

[Shaw]

I noticed that minority members have been brought up (as in women are a minority around here), but I think if we are going to tailor our sensibilities to a minority, we might want to think about keeping in mind that this site is accessible to both kids and teens. Maybe if we try to keep our conversations PG or PG-13 levels, less people would be offended all around. Just a thought.

 

[Jenee]

I noticed that minority members have been brought up (as in women are a minority around here), but I think if we are going to tailor our sensibilities to a minority, we might want to think about keeping in mind that this site is accessible to both kids and teens. Maybe if we try to keep our conversations PG or PG-13 levels, less people would be offended all around. Just a thought.

This is why I post mainly in TNZ. I'm an adult and want adult conversations.

I get enough PG stuff at work.

Not that I'm saying anything is wrong with it, just that I prefer a different type of conversation.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

Everything you say is pretty much true of these forums. Other than the admitted occasional "so-and-so actress is hot," I tend to stay out of it though and just stick to the content as best I can.

Geek culture in general tends to be like this, and they tend to be very hostile to those pointing it out. I have only skimmed page 1 of this thread so I dunno if that's whats happened in the following 10 pages.

 

[Niorah]

This is why I post mainly in TNZ. I'm an adult and want adult conversations.

Ok, this made me laugh out loud.

Adult conversation in TNZ?

Repent, the end -is- nigh!





Sorry, someone just -had- to make that joke.

 

[Deckerd]

I don't get it.

 

[Jenee]

oh God. A Misc VS TNZ fight? How lame.

 

[tharpdevenport]

This is why I post mainly in TNZ. I'm an adult and want adult conversations.

Ok, this made me laugh out loud.

Adult conversation in TNZ?

Indeed. There are actual adult conversations taking place in Chuck-E-Cheese.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

To An Officer: You're giving me the benefit of a doubt while telling me I've muddled the issues and my thinking is murky?

You want me to be clear. Then listen to this. If you post any message on any internet message board and cry because some man says "hello", then you're a fucking drama princess.

I'm not muddling anything. You're discussing "creepy" posters. Men that "step over the line" when complimenting women. If that hurts your feelings, stay home, read a book and get a dog. Because life is going to run you over.

Men and women are different. They express themselves differently. That doesn't make them sexist, it makes them different.

Not all women are alike. Some women like to express themselves attractively and like to be complimented. Other women not so much. Doesn't make one wrong or the other right, it makes them different.

Get over it.

I cannot believe you read An Officer's posts and thought she was bitching that men said "hello" to her.

Here's a clue:

You post a photo and some guy replies with, "wow you look gorgeous!" That's fine, and as many have said if you don't want that commentary don't post a photo.

You post a photo and some guy replies with, "I'd hit that". That is not fine. You are not a "that". "I'd hit that" is what objectifying is all about. It steps over the line and is both aggressive and creepy.

Telling someone they are a "fucking drama princess" after they try and explain their point to you is also over the line.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

This is why I post mainly in TNZ. I'm an adult and want adult conversations.

Ok, this made me laugh out loud.

Adult conversation in TNZ?

Repent, the end -is- nigh!





Sorry, someone just -had- to make that joke.

This is why I post mainly in TNZ. I'm an adult and want adult conversations.

Ok, this made me laugh out loud.

Adult conversation in TNZ?

Indeed. There are actual adult conversations taking place in Chuck-E-Cheese.

This goes back to something I said earlier. It's a little hard to take people seriously when they're complaining about feeling alienated in Miscellaneous when many of the very same people doing the complaining then turn right around and alienate others.

There's been a recurring problem of these silly little bickering matches between, and rude comments about, TNZ and Miscellaneous posters, and it needs to stop, just like the inappropriate comments directed at male and female posters. Most of the TNZ posters post in Miscellaneous too and discuss things with all of you on a regular basis without you knowing the difference, but there's a sizable number who choose not to because they don't feel like listening to all the drama and constantly being depicted as immature or jerks by people out here who are usually basing it on hyperbolic rumors or sometimes nothing at all.

A companion thread to this one sprung up in TNZ at the same time, and while you guys were busy patting yourselves on the back for how much better you are then the Morlocks down there, that thread was pleasant and civil while this thread was a clusterfuck of epic proportions, which is not an uncommon occurrence, by the way.

Yes, there is flaming allowed down there, but the majority of the most bitter and insulting knock down drag out fights we've had on this board occurred in the public forums, so maybe people can stop getting on their high horse about how much more enlightened they are just because they don't overtly flame other posters. There are a hell of a lot more ways to be uncivil than to just call a name, and plenty of them have been dragged out in this thread. Also, just because people can flame down there doesn't mean they always or even usually do so. It's generally saved for when people are being especially obnoxious.

 

[Jenee]

To An Officer: You're giving me the benefit of a doubt while telling me I've muddled the issues and my thinking is murky?

You want me to be clear. Then listen to this. If you post any message on any internet message board and cry because some man says "hello", then you're a fucking drama princess.

I'm not muddling anything. You're discussing "creepy" posters. Men that "step over the line" when complimenting women. If that hurts your feelings, stay home, read a book and get a dog. Because life is going to run you over.

Men and women are different. They express themselves differently. That doesn't make them sexist, it makes them different.

Not all women are alike. Some women like to express themselves attractively and like to be complimented. Other women not so much. Doesn't make one wrong or the other right, it makes them different.

Get over it.

I cannot believe you read An Officer's posts and thought she was bitching that men said "hello" to her.

Here's a clue:

You post a photo and some guy replies with, "wow you look gorgeous!" That's fine, and as many have said if you don't want that commentary don't post a photo.

You post a photo and some guy replies with, "I'd hit that". That is not fine. You are not a "that". "I'd hit that" is what objectifying is all about. It steps over the line and is both aggressive and creepy.

Telling someone they are a "fucking drama princess" after they try and explain their point to you is also over the line.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Of course you and I are not a "that". And, I don't see how that is even creepy. You post a picture and that's all they see of you. You post and everyone gets to know your personality - assuming you're being honest.

It's like ... the first post I made in this thread. I related a story about a friend and I dressed for the beach standing in the front yard waiting for everyone else. Car goes by. Guys make remarks. I'm flattered. My friend is insulted.

Believe it or not, she was still my friend after that. Differences in personalities are not uncommon.

At the point in the thread where someone says "I'd hit that", the person on the receiving end should post a response saying something to the affect of "While I'm sure your intent was to flatter, I don't care to receive comments like that. Could you please refrain in the future."

If the poster who made those remarks continues, even escalates it - perhaps even makes comments about location or other personal information, that's where things cross over into creepy.

If one cannot accept the remark as an innocent flirtation, and respond whichever way (thanks or no thanks), but instead cries about that remark being creepy and offensive, yes, I consider that being a drama queen.

I've stated before that I dislike terms like "bitch" or "chick" or "tramp stamp", but I don't cry when the terms are used. I'm very open to giving the person some leeway in that those terms are ... acceptable in today's society.

However, if one were to refer to me with such a term, I would not hesitate to let that person know that I find such comments unwelcome.

 

[Niorah]

You see, Locutus, I agree about the general point of your post, I have a tendency to actually like high horses, poor animals don't do anything wrong, but definitely dislike the people who ride them.

I would love to bet you a quarter that if it had been a regular denizen of TNZ to make that comment, it would have gathered at least a few smiles if not a couple of LOLs, and maybe other posters from TNZ, who also post in Misc, would have chimed in with jokes of their own.

And even though I do go to TNZ to read a few threads now and again, and I have indeed read some serious threads there through the years, I do not post there and therefore I guess I have less of a leeway to make such a sarcastic joke. And to think that I even underlined it was a joke.

But it's ok, I get it, the situation is tense, bad timing, there's no room for jesters, and so on and so forth. I really just meant it as a quick laugh for everyone. I guess I won't be making a career as a stand up comedian any time soon.

One thing I do not like though. You've been here long enough to see, understand and know the differences between these two forums, you know that there is in fact, and that there always has been, an underlying feeling of "those down there" and "those up there" between the two, so what's the point of going on a tirade about how much more civilised TNZ posters can be and how the worst clusterfucks and most bitter and insulting knock down drag out fights take place in the public forums? Your words, not mine, by the way. You don't think that's going to flare up some more discussion?
I take my responsibility for my joke that was posted at the wrong time, but yours sounds a bit like an over-reaction to me.

I made a joke, stupid and out of place as it was, and it looks to me like you were the one who rode in on a high horse this time. Just my impression. Your mileage may vary.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

At the point in the thread where someone says "I'd hit that", the person on the receiving end should post a response saying something to the affect of "While I'm sure your intent was to flatter, I don't care to receive comments like that. Could you please refrain in the future."

If the poster who made those remarks continues, even escalates it - perhaps even makes comments about location or other personal information, that's where things cross over into creepy.

If one cannot accept the remark as an innocent flirtation, and respond whichever way (thanks or no thanks), but instead cries about that remark being creepy and offensive, yes, I consider that being a drama queen.

Why do you characterize anger and protest at what people see as derogatory behavior as "crying"? That's a way of diminishing people's point. I am not "crying" when I say "I'd hit that" is totally unacceptable and not "innocent flirtation". I am not being a "drama queen" just because YOU do not give a rats about my point.

 

[Jenee]

Why do you characterize anger and protest at what people see as derogatory behavior as "crying"? That's a way of diminishing people's point. I am not "crying" when I say "I'd hit that" is totally unacceptable and not "innocent flirtation". I am not being a "drama queen" just because YOU do not give a rats about my point.

You're right. I shouldn't diminish you're views about what you consider derogatory behavior.

I will say I don't understand the anger or even the insult, but I do think that one can't handle the situation on their own and must call for the offender's chastisement, that the offendee is "crying".

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Why do you characterize anger and protest at what people see as derogatory behavior as "crying"? That's a way of diminishing people's point. I am not "crying" when I say "I'd hit that" is totally unacceptable and not "innocent flirtation". I am not being a "drama queen" just because YOU do not give a rats about my point.

You're right. I shouldn't diminish you're views about what you consider derogatory behavior.

I will say I don't understand the anger or even the insult, but I do think that one can't handle the situation on their own and must call for the offender's chastisement, that the offendee is "crying".

But the mods tell us to "call for the offender's chastisement". The alternative is to start a big fight every time someone posts something derogatory, which they don't want. Now personally I would prefer to deal with it myself in thread but I know this isn't what is wanted. And no, PM's are not the way to deal with it because that way the behavior still stands in thread unchallenged.

 

[An Officer]

Jenee, you want to dismiss this whole issue as posters "crying"?!

Well, I think you've made yourself quite clear. I'll agree to disagree.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

But it's ok, I get it, the situation is tense, bad timing, there's no room for jesters, and so on and so forth. I really just meant it as a quick laugh for everyone. I guess I won't be making a career as a stand up comedian any time soon.

Personally, I think everyone is crazy. In here and in TNZ. There's really too much bullshit. I understood you were making a joke, but I also knew it wouldn't go over well. He does have a point, though. The other thread is much more pleasant than this one (maybe because people can curse at each other, so there's less tension). Hopefully, we can fix the problems of the past without making new ones (unless people want blood, then I don't know).

I think threads like this can do some good. They help people vent steam and they do help give a reminder that perhaps more can be done sometimes when there is a problem. I think there are some problems and I think this thread has been helpful in highlighting those problems. But I also think there's been a lot of insanity in here along the way.

 

[Jenee]

Why do you characterize anger and protest at what people see as derogatory behavior as "crying"? That's a way of diminishing people's point. I am not "crying" when I say "I'd hit that" is totally unacceptable and not "innocent flirtation". I am not being a "drama queen" just because YOU do not give a rats about my point.

You're right. I shouldn't diminish you're views about what you consider derogatory behavior.

I will say I don't understand the anger or even the insult, but I do think that one can't handle the situation on their own and must call for the offender's chastisement, that the offendee is "crying".

But the mods tell us to "call for the offender's chastisement". The alternative is to start a big fight every time someone posts something derogatory, which they don't want. Now personally I would prefer to deal with it myself in thread but I know this isn't what is wanted. And no, PM's are not the way to deal with it because that way the behavior still stands in thread unchallenged.

Why would asking someone to refrain from speaking to you in such a way something the mods wouldn't want? How would that be starting a fight. As long as you don't assume insult was intended and treat it such when you ask that person to refrain, I don't see how that could turn negative.

Jenee, you want to dismiss this whole issue as posters "crying"?!

Well, I think you've made yourself quite clear. I'll agree to disagree.

What issue? You are either an adult and can handle the situation like an adult or you cry.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

You're right. I shouldn't diminish you're views about what you consider derogatory behavior.

I will say I don't understand the anger or even the insult, but I do think that one can't handle the situation on their own and must call for the offender's chastisement, that the offendee is "crying".

But the mods tell us to "call for the offender's chastisement". The alternative is to start a big fight every time someone posts something derogatory, which they don't want. Now personally I would prefer to deal with it myself in thread but I know this isn't what is wanted. And no, PM's are not the way to deal with it because that way the behavior still stands in thread unchallenged.

Why would asking someone to refrain from speaking to you in such a way something the mods wouldn't want? How would that be starting a fight. As long as you don't assume insult was intended and treat it such when you ask that person to refrain, I don't see how that could turn negative..

Oh please. Post telling someone not to talk to you like that will in many cases result in a thread JUST LIKE THIS ONE. Because that is all this thread is, people saying they don't like the way some people talk to other people. I don't think you have taken that very well, you seem in quite a rush to respond to "don't talk to me like that" with "don't be a fucking drama queen".

I wouldn't "assume insult" but I would assume that I was being treated like an object and that I consider derogatory.

 

[Jenee]

Like I said, I've had men ask me to refrain from flirting with them and I've asked men to refrain from calling me a bitch. And, things continued to flow without a brawl and yes, I'm speaking of instances that have happened on this message board.