TAS made real....

[Warped9]

Although I didn’t consciously plan it—I was thinking more in terms of retaining a visual cue of the TAS version—the main hull of this design is essentially the Enterprise’s bridge and B/C deck section morphed into a main hull with some of the lower saucer grafted onto it while eliminating the bulk of the Enterprise’s saucer. That alone gives the Bonaventure a visual connection to Matt Jefferies’s design without simply trying to draw a more clumsy looking Enterprise. That and the dual nacelles albeit arranged vertically rather than horizontally.

 

[trynda1701]

Do you know the story behind the Bonaventure? Here's the one that my friend Lonnie McAfee and I made with input from the original designer Bob Kline as well as Rick Sternbach, Doug Drexler and Mike Okuda.

Playing catch up on this thread!

That's actually a very nice render of what looks like a clunky design in the episode! Very nicely done.

 

[Warped9]

It is a clunky design.

 

[GeekFilter]

Playing catch up on this thread!

That's actually a very nice render of what looks like a clunky design in the episode! Very nicely done.

Thanks! Getting the input of the original designer really made the difference. It was meant to be an earlier, less sleek version of an "Enterprise type ship" as they didn't want anything to outshine the hero ship. I wouldn't call it clunky but borrowing from architecture 'brutalist' is a bit more apt, or utilitarian.

 

[Warped9]

It is far too close a variation to be credible for what it’s supposed to be.

Regarding this current interpretation. When they find the Bonaventure in the pocket universe I don’t recall if there is mention of life detected aboard or energy levels. Are all the ships powerless derelicts and if so then where is the Elysium Council supposed to be? Or is there sufficient power for life support, but not enough for drive systems to make further attempts to escape?

This relates to how the Bonaventure should be depicted in the pocket universe, with lights on partially powered or darkened and powerless.

 

[GeekFilter]

Playing catch up on this thread!

That's actually a very nice render of what looks like a clunky design in the episode! Very nicely done.

Here's another view, I like this one quite a bit.

 

[trynda1701]

Here's another view, I like this one quite a bit.

Very nice.

That looks like a lot of the designs on Aridas Sofias' site.

 

[trynda1701]

I've been thinking about the Bonaventure. It's no secret I'm not a fan of the design as is, but the vessel is prominantly mentioned in the episode so it cannot really be ignored (unless one envisions a live-action version of the episode where the vessel is never mentioned). That said my view is to try to come up with something more plausible that fits with what we do know from TOS and supports Scotty's refrences.

Scotty said the ship was the first ship with warp drive and it disappeared 150 years earlier. Okay, technically Zefram Cochrane's ship was the first Earth ship with a space warp drive. But maybe the Bonaventure was the first Earth ship with a more familiar warp drive system although by TOS era standards it was still a rather primitive setup and thus not conflicting with Spock's assertion in "Balance Of Terror" that Earth ships a century prior to TOS were "primitive" vessels (primitive being a relative term).

So that leads one into speculation as to what TOS might have come up with to depict a 150+ year old starship. I think it's reasonable to assume it wouldn't have looked remotely like the 23rd century Enterprise. And I am not going to use ENT designs as a reference point since those wouldn't have existed back in the day as reference anyway. Different creative teams from different eras with different objectives and reference points.

I might have something of a starting point since I have taken a stab at designing early 22nd century starships by extrapolating from some of Matt Jeffereies early conecpt sketches when he was working his way toward a final design for the Enterprise.

Although not specifically dated this was my take on an early to mid 22nd starship. Yes, it has three nacelles, but I reasoned this was an era (late 21st to mid 22nd) of experimentation when different things were tried in search of an optimal arrangement and configuration. I envision the Bonaventure looking smaller and more rudimentary than this.

That is one sweet set of renders. If you had stayed with this, I could see that in a live-action TAS episode. Taking the early sketches from Matt Jeffries, which of course gives us a 'Daedalus' feel, ends up with this little beauty. Very cool.

Jeffries, of course, is probably where Ardias Sofia took inspiration from too with his Daedalus derivatives!

First renders. The main hull colour is there, but there is other colour to add as well as a little more detailing along with windows, hull markings and maybe lights. We need to remember this is something that could have been worked up as a miniature to appear onscreen briefly and there is a limit to how much effort that might be put into it.

If I may say so I think something like this is more convincing as a 150 year old starship than what we saw onscreen. Indeed something like this might have been more convincing than the NX-01 as a pre TOS ship.

I'm torn over retaining the dish style nav deflector or going with the dome style deflector Jefferies originally envisioned for the TOS E.

Hmm.... There is something of a retro ‘50’s era UFO feeling to this thing. I didn’t plan it that way, but there you are.



The squarish part on the aft upper section of the main hull is what I speculated to be the hanger bay. The engineering section is that thick boom like structure coming out of the forward hull and aft to the large impulse drivers. I plotted a basic deck cross section to line up where the windows can go resulting in a ship ten decks thick through the main hull, so roughly about the same thickness as the Enterprise’s saucer hull.

I speculate this type of vessel was used primarily as a surveyor of relatively near star systems and planet landings by shuttlecraft would be occasional. As such the mission durations would be something on the order of several months to about a year round trip. This ship class could have cemented the use of nacelles over rings and/or systems, thus making it the “first” with a more familiar warp drive layout. However, whether they are using lithium or dilithium yet in conjunction with antimatter is anyone’s guess. Another question is whether sensor and computer systems were yet capable of navigating while in warp and maintaining a sustained and extended flight in warp or if the ship had to make warp jumps. Maybe something to speculate about.

Without transporters shuttlecraft would be used more, but also much more use of hard docking to orbital complexes as well as to other ships. Indeed in some applications an auxiliary craft could be permanently docked to the exterior hull of a ship rather than bothering with the process of depressurizing and pressurizing a large bay to house auxiliary craft.

Presently I think I'm done except for adding the hull markings.

Gorgeous. Love how you've incorporated the design cues of the original TAS drawings and given us this more unique design.

I could see this being kitbashed by live action producers by cutting the upper and lower sections of an AMT Enterprise kit saucer and scratch building the rest. If TAS had been live action in 1973, it's a few years too early to use the smaller size Enterprise nacelle from the 'Star Trek Space Ship' set with the Enterprise, D-7 and Romulan Bird of Prey, but hey ho!

Brilliant work as always, @Warped9!

 

[Warped9]

The two visual cues I took from the TAS design were the upper saucer section and the nacelle aft end shape. Those two things were distinctive while everything else was derivative.

Fan ship design is a challenge of moving away from kitbashing of familiar parts and going for something more distinct while retaining some echo of familiarity. For TOS ships I also try to retain that distinct TOS aesthetic rather than making something look how it might have appeared in a later production.

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

It is a clunky design.

So is the U.S.S. Olympia. But I like her anyway.

 

[GeekFilter]

Very nice.

That looks like a lot of the designs on Aridas Sofias' site.

I don't know who that is I will have to look them up! The only reference we used was the screenshot from the show and some early NX designs from Doug.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I always thought the TAS Bonaventure looks like a parody of the Enterprise. It's just all kinds of wrong as a serious design: each of the main pieces is wackily misshapen, while the connecting pieces seem pretty close to carbon copies of the Ent's.

 

[thribs]

I prefer the Bonaventure seen in the Ships of the Line calendar. To me, that looks like a predecessor to the 1701.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

I prefer the Bonaventure seen in the Ships of the Line calendar. To me, that looks like a predecessor to the 1701.

Is it this one?

https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Bonaventure_class​

I'm afraid I have to agree with @Maurice about not liking the pigs in a blanket approach.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

A start.

Here is a basic quickly sketched out concept for the Bonaventure that is sticking in my mind. I'm still undecided whether to make it as a dual, tri or quad-nacelle configuration, althought I do rather like the vertical dual nacelle orientation for the sake of distinctiveness and simiplicity. I have tried ti incorporate some familiar visual cues to tie it to the TAS version of the ship, most notably the upper hull and the shape of the nacelles.

I really like the loose marker style you use in your design process. It reminds me Ken Adam's style in his set designs for the Bond movies.

Hmm.... There is something of a retro ‘50’s era UFO feeling to this thing. I didn’t plan it that way, but there you are.

In my mind, there should always be a bit of a retro '50's aesthetic to a TOS prequel. Forbidden Planet that baby up!

Really nice work, @Warped9!

 

[trynda1701]

Here's another view, I like this one quite a bit.

Very nice.

That looks like a lot of the designs on Aridas Sofias' site.

Apologies to @Warped9 for reposting this, and no disrespect to @aridas sofia , I meant that this design reminds me of stuff on the Starfleet Museum site by Masao Okazaki.

http://www.starfleet-museum.org

Looking forward to seeing the finished Bonaventure render, @Warped9.

 

[Warped9]

 

[BK613]

So is the U.S.S. Olympia. But I like her anyway.

I don't find the tumblehome design clunky myself.
And of course the argument could be made that USS Zumwalt parallels Olympia's design in the same way the Enterprise parallels the Bonaventure.
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I'm also of the opinion that sticking business end of a 1960s Soyuz rocket on a starship's rear is a prime example of clunky. I don't think it is something MJ would have done, either. YMMV.

 

[Warped9]

I am presently in the process of trying to compose a shot depicting all the "Time Trap" ships I've modelled so far into one image. I am also thinking of adding a couple of other basic shaped designs in the background to try filling it out more.

 

[StarCruiser]

I don't find the tumblehome design clunky myself.
And of course the argument could be made that USS Zumwalt parallels Olympia's design in the same way the Enterprise parallels the Bonaventure.
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I'm also of the opinion that sticking business end of a 1960s Soyuz rocket on a starship's rear is a prime example of clunky. I don't think it is something MJ would have done, either. YMMV.

Actually - Olympia doesn't have a tumblehome hull form, she has a ram bow. Very common feature during the late 19th - early 20th century.

This Bonaventure design really does have that feeling of belonging to the same lineage, while looking distinctly older. Something closer to this would have worked better than the NX-01 we got in ST:E.