TAS made real....

Discussion in 'Fan Art' started by Warped9, Dec 14, 2019.

  1. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    Ever since TAS first debuted way, way back I was interested in seeing what some of the ships seen in TAS could look like if they had been done as live-action in TOS. So over the years I have sketched countless drawings and schematics of how the ships could have been realized in more "real" three-dimensional form.

    It wasn't until I began playing around with 3D modeling almost ten years ago that I now had the opportunity to realize how I envisioned some of the ships seen in TAS. In years past I have shared some of those ideas in this very forum, but given that Photobucket now wants me to pay extra to share images the pics in those old threads aren't readily visible anymore. And I'm not prepared to paying them any more money.

    So I begin this new thread by posting a few images of--what I think--is one odf the better realizations of a TAS design. Specifically the freighter seen in "Pirates Of Orion." I hope to follow this up with other designs including some I will revisit as well as some I have not attempted yet.

    With my model I renamed the ship (though it is certainly meant to be of the same class) and worked up some renders with a little added film grain to make it look a bit more vintage.

    Cue the TAS music...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
    XCV330, think, WebLurker and 9 others like this.
  2. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Location:
    PEBCAK! Three miles west of COVFEFE!
    Several years ago I did some multi-view orthos of the Orion Pirate ship based on the sparse visual information that was shown in that episode. It’s clear to me that some of these designs really weren’t thought out too terribly well in 3 dimensions and were only made to look good at certain angles. In this case, only the front view really works.
    [​IMG]
     
    think, Gibraltar, Markonian and 3 others like this.
  3. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    Inspired by my own copy of the new Official Guide To The Animated Series I intend to revisit (yet again) the various shuttlecraft seen in TAS.

    In the past I strived to create realistic versions of these craft that could be housed on the Enterprise’s flight deck. The conclusion is that it is impossible to have ships that look like they did on TAS be standard complement aboard ship. As they appear onscreen they are simply too damned big and would never fit aboard. And reducing their size inevitable means drastically altering their overall shape and proportions.

    The only way to make them work as seen onscreen (while still trying to reduce their overall scale) is to rationalize that they were not actually Enterprise shuttlecraft, but rather specialized craft on loan from a Starbase. The fact is in at least two cases—“Mudd’s Passion” and “Slaver Weapon”—had those stories been done live-action in TOS they would most likely have simply reused the existing Class F shuttlecraft design.

    Still, I’m keen on trying again, particularly the rakish design shuttlecraft seen in “The Slaver Weapon”
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
  4. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Location:
    PEBCAK! Three miles west of COVFEFE!
    You going to give the pink Kzinti ship a go? ;)
     
  5. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    You know, thats not bad. You have gotten off to a great start with the forward section. I’m trying to recall if we ever saw at least one other angle of this ship onscreen. Using the forward section as inspiration for an overall aesthetic there is room for inspired speculation on what the aft section could look like.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
    danellis and 137th Gebirg like this.
  6. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    I did a quick-and-dirty photoshop of the Kzinti ship and coloured it red rather than pink. I used the ship from Forbidden Planet and modified it. I have yet to try doing it in 3D.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
    137th Gebirg likes this.
  7. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Location:
    PEBCAK! Three miles west of COVFEFE!
    Thanks very much! There was one other off-angle image in that episode that gave me the idea for the aft cargo containers and other shape primitives.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    Like the Klingon D7 this ship looks like it’s meant to be intimidating although it might not be as powerful as it looks. The whole idea is to frighten others into surrendering without much of a fight similar to the fear instilled by early U-boats. I might speculate the outer wings might be the ship’s space warp nacelles or the main drive is in the rear which we cannot clearly see and the wings are more or less theatrical. The spars protruding downward could be a grappling apparatus for grabbing on to ships of smaller size.
     
    Henoch, StarCruiser and 137th Gebirg like this.
  9. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2000
    Location:
    PEBCAK! Three miles west of COVFEFE!
    My thoughts as well, which is why I added some articulated hinge details to the arms. I can’t remember if the nacelle-looking things under the “armpits” were used as weapon arrays, though. It’s been a while since I’ve watched this episode.
     
  10. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    I have thought very much the same thing. They were meant to be seen for only a few seconds so there was no compelling reason to really flesh the designs out.

    In regards to the shuttlecraft seen in TAS those are really out of left field. There was no real consideration as to whether those designs rendered so large could actually fit within the Enterprise's hangar deck--they were drawn simply to look different. Indeed the hangar seen in TAS is way oversized and would never fit inside the Enterprise.

    Even the familiar Class F design seen in TOS was not scaled properly as seen onscreen. MJ originally envisioned a smaller craft as evidenced by the fullsize exterior mockup (and even it was slightly undersized). The original interior set was to reflect that smaller size yet for production reasons (to get the bulky cameras in there) they upsized the interior. Now you have an interior that cannot possibly fit inside the exterior as seen. Over the years I managed to achieve a compromise where the interior is reduced slightly and the exterior is enlarged slightly to make them fit together. The result was a shuttlecraft exterior that looks exactly as it did onscreen with an interior near exactly what we see onscreen. However, as a result the exterior miniature we see in the hangar deck onscreen is now too small to fit to scale.

    It would actually look more like this.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Interesting project. It'd be cool to tackle some of the ships seen in "The Time Trap" and the opening shots of "The Jihad."


    Why not just keep it pink? After all, pink is the color of raw meat. Predators might find it an appealing hue, and intimidating to potential prey.

    Indeed, pre-WWII, Americans saw pink as a strong, masculine color because it was a shade of red, while blue was seen as a gentle, feminine color. For some strange reason, after the war, marketers of baby clothes and products inverted the color associations and promoted them heavily in marketing.
     
    WebLurker likes this.
  12. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    Interesting. I think an appropriate shade of pink could work.

    For the photoshop I did I used the C57D cruiser from Forbidden Planet as a basic template and added to it. I will have to try to find the image I worked up.


    Some of the alien ships in TAS, such as those seen in "Time Trap," don't really give us much beyond a single angle of view and that lacking in detailing. That leaves a fair degree of room for interpretation/speculation. Even with those designs we saw more of there was still often a lack of convincing detail that one can add to make them fit better within the TOS live-action universe.

    In fairness this was done on TOS as well. The Botany Bay in "Space Seed" was a reasonably detailed miniature even if we didn't see much of it. And it was a static model which fit into the storyline of the ship being a powered down derelict. The Klingon D7 was (sadly) also a static model with no lights, but then we supposed to see it mostly in action at a distance. Same with the Romulan Warbird (although I believe the nacelle domes were originally supposed to light up). But later ship designs such as the Tholian webspinner and Kara's ship in "Spock's Brain" did lack in detailing. They got away with this to an extent because they ships were initially meant to be seen on a smallish CRT television for only a few seconds. No one at the time envisioned the show would one day be scrutinized on large 40-50 plus inch flat panel televisions in incredible HD resolution.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    I think the original intent behind the K'tinga class cruisers in TMP was that they were the same class as the show's D-7s but we were able to see them with more detail. IIRC, they copied the proportions of the original model exactly and just added more texture and detailing. Although fandom has adopted the idea that they're distinct classes.
     
  14. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    I’m not sure because I seem to recall a reference in GR’s novelization of TMP to the “new” Klingon battle cruisers. No reason the Klingons couldn’t also have upgraded ships that look very similar to a previous design.

    The TMP refit design was originally supposed to be a new ship (I believe) but then they changed their minds and went with it being an upgrade of the original TOS Enterprise. But by then they were already committed to a design that was distinctly apart from the TOS design. Now you have to kinda squint to accept it as the same ship.

    I still think the original could have been updated without it being so drastically different. I have even explored this myself although thats wondering a bit too far off this topic of discussion of TAS ships. This could be revisited in another thread.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    That's true, but Roddenberry's interpretation might not have been the same as Wise's or the model designers' intentions. Even collaborators on the same production can see things differently (see the debate among Blade Runner's creators over whether Deckard is a replicant, or among The Prisoner's creators over whether Number Six was actually John Drake from Danger Man).

    And I'm not arguing over whether it "actually" was the case, because obviously the consensus has come to be that they're different. I'm just saying it may have been the original intention behind the design.
     
  16. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    One thing I liked that came out of TAS was the idea the Romulan D7s were painted distinctly different than the Klingon versions. That was a neat bit of added detail.

    Perhaps the most ambitious effort would be to model the alien starship from “Beyond The Farthest Star.” This is not only one of my favourite TAS episodes, but that ship is one of the most exotic and truly alien looking designs ever put onscreen be it film or television. Seeing that in 3D would be amazing.

    Hmm... I think one would have to take a bit of liberty with that design given we have only one real overall view of it. There doesn’t look to be any real symetry to it and the “vines” look to weave in and around each other. Also the ship looks a bit bent in the middle—is that a deliberate aspect of its design or a result of the crew deliberately damaging their own ship?
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2019
  17. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    Location:
    publiusr
  18. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Indeed. Some shots are rotoscoped directly from the live-action footage. Otherwise the only differences are due to artistic interpretation. The only actual design changes are on the inside -- second bridge exit, rearranged engine room, that sort of thing.
     
  20. Maurice

    Maurice Maurice, the ATARI CX5200 Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    One ferry ride from Starfleet HQ
    Rotoscoped what? The ship exterior in a few shots like the planet orbit stuff in the titles?