Tantalus Device

[E-DUB]

We all know it from "Mirror, Mirror". That device that allowed Kirk to remotely zap his enemies. Was it ever invented in the prime universe? If so, what happened to it?

 

[BillJ]

It was. It's called the transporter.

 

[Timo]

...The only thing really setting it apart from the transporter was the visual aiming aid.

I wonder if that was wholly based on the ship's internal CCTV systems and would have been unable to target, say, the Halkans down on the planet? The device would thus only be useful in palace intrigue and the like, not on more open types of battlefield.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Knight Templar]

We all know it from "Mirror, Mirror". That device that allowed Kirk to remotely zap his enemies. Was it ever invented in the prime universe? If so, what happened to it?

It was probably invented as in the Mirror universe but according to Marlena is was apparently looted from an obscure scientists lab.

So obviously, our universe Kirk would not be stealing stuff (aside from the occasional cloaking device on behalf of Starfleet).

 

[Timewalker]

Interesting question. I wonder who this "obscure" scientist could have been...?

The Tantalus Field doesn't transport people anywhere; it kills them. No idea where the body goes - it just vanishes.

Carol Marcus' Genesis Device makes life appear from inert material - in effect, just "appearing." I wonder if, in the Mirror Universe, the Mirror-Carol invented the Tantalus Field? Or maybe she was a good scientist in the Mirror Universe and it was Mirror-David who invented it? 'Cause he was a cheater in the Prime Universe...

Okay, I'm confusing myself now...

 

[F. King Daniel]

I liked William Shatner/Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens pitch for Enterprise's fourth season, which would have established the Tantalus device (which Mirror Kirk found on some alien planet or other) didn't kill it's victims, but, unbeknownst to Kirk and Mirror Spock at least, transported them to a prison in the 22nd century of the prime universe. Archer would've met Mirror Kirk, who'd been rotting there for 40 years.

If it is an advanced alien space/time dimensional transporter, then it's creators probably move through time and alternate realities as easily as Kirk and co. beam anywhere.

 

[Timo]

The Tantalus Field doesn't transport people anywhere; it kills them. No idea where the body goes - it just vanishes.

Tantalus device didn't kill it's victims, but, unbeknownst to Kirk and Mirror Spock at least, transported them to a prison

One wonders if the phaser at the usual "make-disappear" setting doesn't do something like that, too. Essentially, it sends its victims to some sort of a phased afterlife - and if you are really unlucky, you get sent there intact...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[E-DUB]

OK, it either kills them or sends them somewhere from which there is no return, maybe a cornfield on some faraway planet. Maybe another dimension. But if people started appearing here from another dimension, and the future of another dimension to boot, that'd be big news. Of course, "Mirror Darkly" did establish a link between theTOS MU timeframe and the Prime universe ENT time frame. Now if that link still existed into TOS prime universe time, I'd say that Kirk was lucky that no TNG-era MU baddies came swarming out during the "Tholian Web" incident.

 

[Timo]

Or at least the episode established a link between the ENT Mirror timeline and one that uncannily resembled the TOS Prime timeline. But since the whole point of these alternate universes seems to be that they uncannily resemble their Prime counterparts, then crossing the threshold won't necessarily take you to a definite TOS Prime or a definite TNG Mirror or anything like that. Rather, you probably hit something that is almost but not quite completely opposite to what you expected, which means it is a mirror universe but by no means has to be the one...

Perhaps the TOS era Defiant did not come from the TOS Prime universe, but from a slightly parallel one - the mirror to the mirror of TOS? The starship did have rounded bridge railing, rather than the angular railing we saw in the TOS episode.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[ToddPence]

A couple of things that have always puzzled me about Marlena's use of the Tantalus machine.

She uses it near the end of the episode to wipe out all of Sulu's henchmen as he is seeking to assassinate Kirk, but spares Sulu. Why?

Then, after leaving Sulu alive, she closes up the device causing the cover to fall over the viewscreen. Assuming she has her reasons for sparing Sulu, isn't she at least interested in watching to see how the subsequent fight comes out?

 

[Knight Templar]

A couple of things that have always puzzled me about Marlena's use of the Tantalus machine.

She uses it near the end of the episode to wipe out all of Sulu's henchmen as he is seeking to assassinate Kirk, but spares Sulu. Why?

Then, after leaving Sulu alive, she closes up the device causing the cover to fall over the viewscreen. Assuming she has her reasons for sparing Sulu, isn't she at least interested in watching to see how the subsequent fight comes out?

Short answer:

Sulu, even Mirror Sulu is one of the named characters while 3 redshirts or not.

Just like during Chekovs attempt on Kirks life, two of Chekovs henchman got phasered out of existence while Chekov was merely tossed into a wall.

In universe answers:

1) Marlena figured Kirk could handle Sulu alone and thought he might be valuable later.

2) The Tantalus Field can only kill three people in rapid succession before needing to "recharge".

Note, In "Mirror, Mirror" their universe does diverge from our own in some key ways. For example as far as we know, Kirk never served under Christopher Pike while in "Mirror, Mirror" it is obviously implied that Kirk was Pikes First Officer.

 

[Wingsley]

I'm not so sure that Kirk never served under Pike in the Prime Universe of pre-TOS.

The Starbase 11 Sickbay Intensive Care scene seems quite vague to me:

from "The Menagerie, Part One":
MENDEZ: You ever met Chris Pike?
KIRK: When he was promoted to Fleet Captain.
MENDEZ: About your age. Big, handsome man, vital, active.
KIRK: I took over the Enterprise from him. Spock served with him for several years.
SPOCK: Eleven years, four months, five days.

I see plenty of wiggle room there. It is theoretically possible that Prime Kirk served under Pike for at least a couple of years when Pike was promoted to administer a multi-starship flotilla, with the Enterprise as its flagship. Or Pike could have been the "senior captain" of a squadron of starships whose homeport was Starbase 11, and Kirk was then a commander; just before Pike would've been promoted to his "fleet captain" assignment, Kirk could've come aboard the Enterprise to briefly serve as XO. So it's possible that Kirk served directly under Pike aboard the Enterprise for an undetermined amount of time... couple be a couple of years, but more like months or days. In this scenario, Kirk serving as Pike's Enterprise XO would be a transition period to prepare Kirk for the eventual captaincy.

Note that the Mendez-Kirk-Spock-McCoy dialogue is a little loose... Mendez described Kirk and Pike as being about the same age. Based on the rest of the episode, it would seem more likely that Pike is at least a decade older than Kirk.

 

[Timo]

1) Marlena figured Kirk could handle Sulu alone and thought he might be valuable later.

Or perhaps personal combat in the Mirror universe is highly valued, and Marlena thought that if Kirk couldn't handle Sulu, then Kirk deserved to die and Marlena would start anew with the victor.

Although I definitely like the second idea about recharge times!

A third thing limiting Mirror Kirk's use of his superweapon would be that there is no penalty or inquiry for murdering enlisteds, but Kirk would have to explain each and every assassination of an officer. He could make a few simply disappear and avoid scrutiny, but if he started applying the Tantalus device in large scale,

a) he would get associated with the assassinations of officers and would face the consequences
b) the existence of Tantalus would be revealed in the inquiry
c) some clever fox would no doubt climb the rank ladder even faster than Kirk, with so many of the young competitors out of the way.

It is theoretically possible that Prime Kirk served under Pike for at least a couple of years when Pike was promoted to administer a multi-starship flotilla, with the Enterprise as its flagship.

Or then Fleet Captains routinely serve as starship COs. Who knows, perhaps it is even something of a prerequisite? Kirk himself might have been a Fleet Captain for most of TOS, the rank braid going with that being |:| as worn by him beyond the second pilot. Pike might have begun wearing |:| when he met Lieutenant Commander Kirk and took the young man as his XO; we previously saw Pike wearing || while commanding.

It's just that only very formal occasions call for the use of the full title, perhaps in order to separate starship captains of random rank from Starfleet officers of Captain rank.

The one thing that stands out is that Mendez seems wholly ignorant of the relationships between Pike and the various Enterprise officers. He could ask "Have you met?" and Kirk would laconically answer "At his promotion" even if Chris happened to be Kirk's brother-in-law nowadays! So there definitely is wiggle room there.

Timo Saloniemi