SW blu-rays have changes to the films again

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Considering I'm not really a fan of most of the changes made over the years, aside from polishing the sound and video quality (getting rid of garbage mattes was the reason I broke down and got the blu-rays) I just have to relegate myself to thinking what actual changes qualify as "pretty neat." By that, I don't mean that I necessarily prefer the changes over how they were done originally, but since there was no stopping changes in general, I might as well consider changes I do like.

One "new" shot I love (it was added in the Special Editions but I still consider it "new") is the more dynamic "get out of range before it blows" shot of the Falcon, Luke's X-Wing, and a couple other fighters leaving just before the first Death Star blows up. There was nothing wrong with the original shot, and the 70's model work was, of course, superb, but I really like the tilting camera used in the 'improved' shot, as it is really dynamic and exciting.

Another shot I like, one that most critics have panned - because they say it was added at the last minute, and they'd even argue that it looked like a rush job - was Sebulba's cameo in Return of the Jedi, which is on the Blu-ray. I think it looks okay, and Sebulba was always my favorite non-human character (aside from Maul, but even he is humanoid) as I've always liked their unique design. Some would argue that this isn't, in fact, Sebulba, that it's another Dug, and that it may be the one that was seen in AOTC. Well, whatever. i think that Dug looked old in Clones, and now he's young again? Whatever. I'll call the Dug in Jedi Sebulba... and I like him that way!

 

[General_Phoenix]

If it is Sebulba, he would be old by the time of Jedi, considering last time we saw him was a few decades ago in Star Wars time.

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

True. But hey, I like Sebulba. So, well, I'll call him Sebulba!

 

[The Old Mixer]

The Old Mixer, your points are good. However, the Rebellion itself notwithstanding, the Empire did manage to survive without a Death Star for the whole TESB, and also through ROTJ right up until the Emperor was killed. In ANH, Tarkin seemed to suggest that the "regional governors" wear capable of controlling systems not local to the Death Star. Or am I reading that wrong?

TARKIN: The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I've just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away.

TAGGE: That's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?

TARKIN: The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station.

Your quote reinforces my point...Tagge's concern, answered by Tarkin invoking fear of the Death Star. The regional governors would only be able to hold order in their systems with its threat backing them.

I think the Rebellion--not just a group of armed Rebels hiding on Hoth, but uprising, or the threat thereof, of star system after star system--would have been a HUGE problem after ANH...after all those years of manipulation, the Emperor had showed his hand.

"Democracy? HAH! Don't need that anymore! Now I can just destroy your planets with this battle sta--!"

BOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Err...pay no attention to the massive explosion behind the curtain."

 

[Set Harth]

Look up. No, straight up. Yeah, directly above your head. No, higher. Higher... Higher still. THERE IT IS. Right there. That thing is the point, and it appears to have gone so far over your head that it is now in geo-synchronous orbit.

I'll say it again because you seem to have missed it: where is the document which details Yoda's many lies? I'm not the one refusing to read something. It's not on David Brin's website, for example. The high priest of the "Yoda lied" tea party just does the usual song and dance, calling Yoda a liar but conveniently not coming up with any specifics. You see, he's what we call a hardcore revisionist. In his version of reality up is down, black is white, truth is lies, lies are truth, and Yoda's a Sith ( and here we are right back at the original context of the issue, how about that ). So-called "criticism" from someone either unwilling or unable to accept or comprehend the difference between the Jedi and the Sith is worth less than nothing. The short version is you just don't get it.

I'd rather be accused of misrepresenting something than be seemingly unable to accept its flaws.

Why even frame it as a choice? When it comes to the OT you're doing both.

I get that too. It was intended to be an Ah-hah moment for the audience, and it worked quite well.

So the audience went, "Ah-hah, this guy is obviously a villain"? Working...

But then the OT did establish the Jedi are wise, honorable, and never lie.

If "fess up" is your only concept of morality, you end up with Palpatine ( who tells the truth ) being treated as morally superior to Obi-Wan ( who lies for honorable reasons ). That's a sign that something's wrong with your system.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Your quote reinforces my point...Tagge's concern, answered by Tarkin invoking fear of the Death Star. The regional governors would only be able to hold order in their systems with its threat backing them.\

That quote shows that the original SW was written to be a single film, and not the first part of a trilogy. After the Death Star was destroyed, we were meant to infer that the Empire was done for, with the rebels celebrating at the end.

When the second film came along, we are meant to believe the celebration was held right before the rebels had to evacuate and run from the Empire. Way to waste time, guys!

 

[Uxi]

Your quote reinforces my point...Tagge's concern, answered by Tarkin invoking fear of the Death Star. The regional governors would only be able to hold order in their systems with its threat backing them.\

That quote shows that the original SW was written to be a single film, and not the first part of a trilogy. After the Death Star was destroyed, we were meant to infer that the Empire was done for, with the rebels celebrating at the end.

When the second film came along, we are meant to believe the celebration was held right before the rebels had to evacuate and run from the Empire. Way to waste time, guys!

What? I still remember Han talking about the Imperial Starfleet (which sure wasn't flying around the Death Star - basic logic says the Rebels were hiding from the Imperial Starfleet before they even knew there was a Death Star so if/when the Death Star is removed from the equation, they still have to hide from the Imperial Starfleet). I also still remember seeing a deliberate shot showing Vader stabilize his tumble and fly smoothly away, as if letting us know he was still out there and presumably would be back.

Way to connect dots that aren't there.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

What? I still remember Han talking about the Imperial Starfleet (which sure wasn't flying around the Death Star - basic logic says the Rebels were hiding from the Imperial Starfleet before they even knew there was a Death Star so if/when the Death Star is removed from the equation, they still have to hide from the Imperial Starfleet). I also still remember seeing a deliberate shot showing Vader stabilize his tumble and fly smoothly away, as if letting us know he was still out there and presumably would be back.

Way to connect dots that aren't there.

I don't believe I am. While I agree there were bones thrown into the film to set up a possible sequel, the script was also cleverly written so it could stand on its own and we could infer at the end of the film that the Rebels had won, or at the very least that the Empire was on its way out.

Sort of like how The Matrix ends with Neo's phone call telling the machines that he is going to end the war. It shows that the film was written to stand on it's own and not be the first in a trilogy.

 

[Whofan]

According to the novel by Donald Glut, there's three years between the films. (ROTJ however, only takes place a year after ESB).

Most of the three years are covered by the old Marvel comics (Which mainly used new villains such as Tagge's relatives) Splinter of the Mind's Eye and also the newspaper strips (Mainly the ones by Archie Goodwin and Al Williamson) which came out around the time of ROTJ which help bridge the two films and also hint at developments in ROTJ (Such as the Mon Calamari joining the Rebels).

Of course that's all EU, but it's some of the better stuff IMO, it doesn't endlessly make backstories for every cantina creature like some of the 90's EU was known for. (Although it does explain things like the bounty hunter on Ord Mantell) In fact it's probably the closest SW EU gets to the tone of the original movies since they were made at roughly the same time and by a writer and artist well known for comic books and sci-fi fantasy similar to that which partially inspired Lucas.


Part of the reason was that the Rebels had trouble finding a new base until Luke stumbled upon Hoth (Hence the opening crawl saying "Led by Luke Skywalker") Vader also was waiting for his new destroyer to be completed so he could really mess up the base and had to deal with a few Imperials who tried to overthrow him and sabotage the project.

The strip was reprinted and edited as Dark Horse's Classic Star Wars

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Classic_Star_Wars

 

[Uxi]

What? I still remember Han talking about the Imperial Starfleet (which sure wasn't flying around the Death Star - basic logic says the Rebels were hiding from the Imperial Starfleet before they even knew there was a Death Star so if/when the Death Star is removed from the equation, they still have to hide from the Imperial Starfleet). I also still remember seeing a deliberate shot showing Vader stabilize his tumble and fly smoothly away, as if letting us know he was still out there and presumably would be back.

Way to connect dots that aren't there.

I don't believe I am. While I agree there were bones thrown into the film to set up a possible sequel, the script was also cleverly written so it could stand on its own and we could infer at the end of the film that the Rebels had won, or at the very least that the Empire was on its way out.

What would make you think the Imperial Starfleet had been neutralized? They're right where they started.

Sort of like how The Matrix ends with Neo's phone call telling the machines that he is going to end the war. It shows that the film was written to stand on it's own and not be the first in a trilogy.

Good example. I remember seeing that movie and wondering what was next. If the movie hadn't been successful it would have been left to the imagination and perhaps alternative media like comics or novels to show the subsequent adventures. Not that the next book or whatever would say Neo destroyed them all with his phone calls.

 

[Set Harth]

For whatever reason, the Marvel comic series didn't feature a post-Yavin appearance by Vader ( other than in flashbacks ) until issue #21. It gave the impression that they weren't initially sure whether he had survived or not.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

For whatever reason, the Marvel comic series didn't feature a post-Yavin appearance by Vader ( other than in flashbacks ) until issue #21. It gave the impression that they weren't initially sure whether he had survived or not.

That doesn't sound like the Marvel I know!

If I recall, their Star Trek series between ST3 and 4 had the Enterprise crew commanding the Excelsior. Which required some convoluted plotting to get them back into the Klingon bird of prey.

 

[Set Harth]

It's the same Marvel that "killed off" Han Solo.

 

[Unicron]

If I recall, their Star Trek series between ST3 and 4 had the Enterprise crew commanding the Excelsior. Which required some convoluted plotting to get them back into the Klingon bird of prey.

I'm not sure they were ever "put back" into the BOP though, I could be wrong. DC's run was essentially its own direction, as Kirk was still an admiral when he was given the Excelsior and Spock was reassigned to his own command, until his crew was killed off by plot monsters.

Star Wars Blu-Ray... now with more Porkins!

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32itsA81Ouw[/yt]

 

[TremblingBluStar]

I'm not sure they were ever "put back" into the BOP though, I could be wrong. DC's run was essentially its own direction, as Kirk was still an admiral when he was given the Excelsior and Spock was reassigned to his own command, until his crew was killed off by plot monsters.

Well, they had to have gotten it back somehow for ST4.

Yes, it was DC's run I am thinking of! I know there was a marvel run around the time of TMP, but it was a short run.

Here is all Wikipedia has to say about this

However, with Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home taking place right after III left off, the series quickly wiped the slate clean by having Kirk lose command of the Excelsior and Spock return to the state he was at the end of III.

 

[Guartho]

Look up. No, straight up. Yeah, directly above your head. No, higher. Higher... Higher still. THERE IT IS. Right there. That thing is the point, and it appears to have gone so far over your head that it is now in geo-synchronous orbit.

I'll say it again because you seem to have missed it: where is the document which details Yoda's many lies? I'm not the one refusing to read something.

Ok, clearly I'm going to have to hold your hand and spell this out. I actually don't care if Yoda and Obi-wan never once lied or if every line was a lie. That was not the point of my post at all. (as an aside, why are you fixated on Yoda when TremblingBluStar clearly referred to Yoda AND Obi-wan?)

Here's my post that sent you off on your wild goose chase:

Yoda and Obi-wan's many falsehoods have been well documented elsewhere. I'm not going to repeat any of them for you here because that would be a waste of time. If you want though, what I will do is repeat over and over in multiple posts that such lies exist. I will not however tell you what any of them are. This is a perfectly valid and reasonable way for me to defend TremblingBluStar's statement.

This is intended as a parody of your bizarre behavior related to the Plinkett reviews. You made this outrageous claim.

Not all so-called "criticism" is equally valid. If a prequel hater resorts to lying about the content of the films, what effect should that have on their credibility?

I immediately asked you to prove your outrageous claim:

Pfffft. Show me one single line from the RLM reviews that lies about the content of the film other than something that is obviously a joke. (Qui-Gon Booze, etc.)

Opinions are also off the table so don't show me one of the "It makes no sense" lines and then ramble on about how it makes perfect sense if X & Y happened off screen.

You didn't give me that one single line. You still haven't. Instead you've just repeated over and over again that there are many of them, but it'd be a waste of time for you to tell me what one of them is because someone else wrote a 108 page diatribe and they're in there somewhere so I should read that instead of one post by you.

The closest you've come to telling us what one of the lies is is here where you let us know that you do indeed know the difference between a factual claim, a joke, and an opinion.

I'm not talking about jokes. Or differences of opinion between Stoklasa and Raynor. I'm mostly referring to claims made about TPM which can be found to be factually inaccurate by checking the films,

But then you once again failed to tell us one single claim made by RLM about TPM which can be found to be factually inaccurate by checking the films.

You've spent far more effort telling us why you're not going to tell us what one of the many lies is than it would have taken you to tell us what one of the many lies is. That is assuming they exist. If the many lies don't exist than you haven't told us what one of them is because that would be impossible.

At this point that's what I think is going on. I think we've caught you in a lie, or at least a moment of exaggeration because someone whose opinion you really disagree with has a very popular series of web videos expressing that opinion. That is why I'm not going to read the rest of the 108 page Raynor Rebuttal. It's because I don't believe that I will find in it what you tell me is in it. I've read about 1/4th of it, and in those pages there was not one instance of citing a statement from the Red Letter Media review that was factually inaccurate about TPM.

Why would I make myself slog through the other 3/4ths of the thing just to see if you were right or not? I would only do that if I was very unsure of myself AND I actually cared enough to prove my ultimate internet-rightness. I'm not going to pretend that I don't care at all, since I'm obviously posting about it, but I'm pretty confident that you're not right and my willingness to play your game ends here. Until you can tell me one of RLM's claims about TPM that can be proven to be factually inaccurate by checking the film I will continue to believe that at best you got upset and called them liars because their opinions about TPM are both in opposition to yours and noticeably popular.

So like I said, I'm not messing with you anymore. If you choose to try to continue this thread of discussion with anything other than telling us what one of these many falsehoods is, I will just give you a simple "Put up or shut up" to remind you. That's as far as I'm willing to go until you're willing to actually back up your assertion.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

Why would I make myself slog through the other 3/4ths of the thing just to see if you were right or not?

That is my view as well. If there were some great points in his rebuttal, I'm assuming they would be out there and easy to find. After 30 minutes reading excerpts from it on various web forums, I haven't seen any. Raynor instead takes various leaps of logic and makes assumptions to explain things in the film that should have been made clear by the writer.

I simply don't see why fans of the prequels would get upset by RLM's videos. Yes they have attained a limited level of popularity online, but they will never be as widely viewed as the prequels themselves. Like I said earlier, you can take solace in the fact that the prequels made hundreds of millions of dollars worldwide.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Why would I make myself slog through the other 3/4ths of the thing just to see if you were right or not?

That is my view as well. If there were some great points in his rebuttal, I'm assuming they would be out there and easy to find. After 30 minutes reading excerpts from it on various web forums, I haven't seen any. Raynor instead takes various leaps of logic and makes assumptions to explain things in the film that should have been made clear by the writer.

I simply don't see why fans of the prequels would get upset by RLM's videos. Yes they have attained a limited level of popularity online, but they will never be as widely viewed as the prequels themselves. Like I said earlier, you can take solace in the fact that the prequels made hundreds of millions of dollars worldwide.

I'm a huge Saga fan and I'm not butthurt by RLM. I just don't watch the PT videos. I am a big fan of the RLM TNG movie videos though.

 

[TremblingBluStar]

I'm a hug Saga fan and I'm not butthurt by RLM. I just don't watch the PT videos. I am a big fan of the RLM TNG movie videos though.

That is a good attitude to have. However, I'd recommend watching the reviews just for the humor.

I'm a huge fan of the TNG films. Well, the first two at any rate, and I love his Generations and First Contact reviews!

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I'm a hug Saga fan and I'm not butthurt by RLM. I just don't watch the PT videos. I am a big fan of the RLM TNG movie videos though.

That is a good attitude to have. However, I'd recommend watching the reviews just for the humor.

I'm a huge fan of the TNG films. Well, the first two at any rate, and I love his Generations and First Contact reviews!

I agree.

What's more, if you find the PT very admirable, then you might find your beliefs strengthened after this review.. just like any real belief, it's only strengthened when challenged. I like the PT to a degree and, as a Star Wars fan, I enjoyed the analysis. The people at RLM are Star Wars fans, so keep that in mind even during their most vicious attacks.