doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
Of course Luke was doing something between Empire and Jedi. It was "Shadows of the Empire," duh.
SW blu-rays have changes to the films again
- Thread starter Whofan
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It does. I offered a suggestion above: the rescuing of Han taking priority. Luke had already skipped out on Yoda once.
I haven't even looked at this. Is it worth reading, or not?
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
Saw this over on Reddit today... 
Does it?
I mean, making him essentially a cyborg may have made him stronger. This is certainly something Darth Vader believes, confidently asserting that he is far superior than he was when he last duelled Obi-Wan in A New Hope.
Yeah, well don't forget this was coming from the same guy who said "This is the end for you master." and "You underestimate my powers." And we all know how that turned out.
James Earl Jones has a more convincing delivery. 
Luke ran off to face Vader on his own, against their objections. We don't know if they would have eventually told him. I don't recall them telling Luke to kill Vader.
Ben's first talk with Luke about his father was very measured, and could be interpreted a number of ways. It makes the most sense if Vader isn't Lukes father..."VADER was seduced by the dark side", as that's how it was then. Anyway, Vader was suddenly Lukes father, so then Ben could have any number of reasons not to tell him yet. One is that Luke's still a "kid" , and he already thought his father was dead, so suddenly telling him, no, he's alive, and he's the Empire's evil Lord, I mean, wouldn't that be pretty damaging? Who knows how Luke would take it? He freaking "killed" himself when Vader told him. Ben was being as delicate as possible, that's obvious in the scene. Some look at it as if Ben's being a manipulative liar, but I just can't see that.
Excellent point, Yoda did tell him not ready was he. Had he stuck around, further into his training perhaps Yoda might have clued him in. Then again even on his death bed he was being evasive so I'm not sure where they stood.
The only thing I don't understand is
A: Why they didn't do it themselves in the twenty intervening years. Obi-Wan was still a kid compared to Dooku And about the same age as Palpatine in the PT and I'm sure Yoda could have still contributed something.
And B: Just what were they expecting Luke to be able to do that Mace and three senior Jedi masters couldn't.
In the end The only real hope they really had was for Luke or even Leia to appeal to any parental instincts still left in Anakin. Luke was a wise man.
"Look at me, I can misrepresent the films just like Stoklasa!"
That's fine, I could read the relevant document all by myself, if it existed. But it turns out Yoda is only guilty of "lies by omission", also known as true statements, meaning that unfortunately the analogy doesn't really work here. Nothing that Yoda says in the films is contradicted by the content of the films. Of course, if you're rewriting the films, then Yoda "repeatedly lied" or whatever.
General_Phoenix said:
Yes and no.
It has diminished his overall potential ( not to mention agility and endurance ) and made him susceptible to Force lightning, while it has also been said that he cannot conjure it. However, his Force power as demonstrated on screen in the OT and TFU 2 is not noticeably less than what was displayed on screen in the PT, being more impressive overall. Based on the fact that training is relevant to actualized Force power, we can see that Vader's Death Star claim can be taken literally.
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The Force Unleashed games were fun but completely irreconcilable with what we see in the films. I mean come on, the amount of force lightning Vader took at the end of part two made the Emperor look like little more than spark plug, yet he survived unscathed to be taken prisoner by the alliance and stand trial for war crimes. 
An as yet unresolved plot developement I still don't quite get or even like for that matter. But that's another story.
An as yet unresolved plot developement I still don't quite get or even like for that matter. But that's another story.
"Look at me, I can misrepresent the films just like Stoklasa!"
I'd rather be accused of misrepresenting something than be seemingly unable to accept its flaws.
I thought Vader died of an asthma attack!The Force Unleashed games were fun but completely irreconcilable with what we see in the films. I mean come on, the amount of force lightning Vader took at the end of part two made the Emperor look like little more than spark plug, yet he survived unscathed to be taken prisoner by the alliance and stand trial for war crimes.
Look up. No, straight up. Yeah, directly above your head. No, higher. Higher... Higher still. THERE IT IS. Right there. That thing is the point, and it appears to have gone so far over your head that it is now in geo-synchronous orbit.
It's been awhile since I saw ROTJ, but whether or not Luke turned Vader back to the Light Side successfully was not as important as him being able to keep Vader and Palpatine occupied until the Death Star was destroyed. Why Palpatine and Vader didn't escort Luke somewhere else, away from the battle, can only be attributed to overconfidence, I guess.
You'd think one of them would say to the other, "Hey, you remember the time the rebels led an assault on the last Death Star and against all odds obliterated it? Maybe we should leave."
I mean it's not like Palpatine's presence on the Death Star makes it more powerful, is it?
Oh Lord, I'm going to do it, I'm going to bring up the EU. Pray for me.
Anyway, I don't remember which one, maybe one of the first Timothy Zahn novels, the author put forth an interesting idea. The Emperor was a big part of the fleet's coordination at Endor via conscious or sub-conscious use of the Force. In the book this is pointed to as the reason the Rebels were victorious after the second Death Star was destroyed even though they were still surrounded by a formidable Imperial fleet.
Anyway, I don't remember which one, maybe one of the first Timothy Zahn novels, the author put forth an interesting idea. The Emperor was a big part of the fleet's coordination at Endor via conscious or sub-conscious use of the Force. In the book this is pointed to as the reason the Rebels were victorious after the second Death Star was destroyed even though they were still surrounded by a formidable Imperial fleet.
Sounds like the Force ability known as battle meditation, which was introduced in the Tales of the Jedi comics and featured prominently in the Knights of the Old Republic RPG. I suppose that works as an in-universe explanation.
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAOX_CHU0JY[/yt]
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAOX_CHU0JY[/yt]
That was indeed from Heir to the Empire; I'm pretty sure that later sources have retroactively applied the "battle meditation" label to it, though.
I am told this was also what was implied in the ROTJ novel.
I think it's clear by implication in ROTJ that Luke spent the time between movies honing the abilities that Yoda taught him...Vader even acknowledges as much when he's commenting on Luke's lightsaber. What's more, they say that you learn more from your mistakes than from your successes....They also say that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Luke fighting Vader in TESB and surviving probably gave him boatloads of practical, on-the-job experience upon which to base his implied self-training.
I love the Thrawn trilogy. They need to be made into a film trilogy someday. Recast the main characters if they have to, but get it done!
No.
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