Surprising Star Trek fan opinions

[Too Much Fun]

Until I joined this website, I didn't know much about general opinions of Star Trek fans on all things Star Trek. I don't have a lot of friends who are Star Trek fans, and most other websites I've frequented haven't had a lot of Trekkies/Trekkers on them. As a result, there are a lot of opinions I was surprised to learn about since joining. Among them are the following...

* Many people not only love "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", but actually think it's one of the best Star Trek movies.
I always assumed that like the cast and crew of the movie, as well as critics, Star Trek historians, and the few Star Trek fans I've seen on other sites, the hardcore Star Trek fans would agree that it's one of the weaker entries in the film franchise. People on other sites have labeled it "The Motionless Picture" and had nothing but derisive comments for it, but here (to my amazement) it's actually kicking ass in the best movies poll in the movie forum. Is this just nostalgia? Elevated opinions due to the director's cut? Or has the hardcore fanbase always been this enthusiastic about it?

* The Cardassians have a cult following.
I always knew that people love the Klingons as it's been a popular stereotype (based partially on fact) that Star Trek fans like to dress up as Klingons and learn the Klingon language. The same goes for Vulcans (minus the language), which is a given since Spock is so popular. I figured the Romulans and Borg would have a lot of fans too, since at certain times they've been the supreme bad ass villains of the Star Trek world.

All the Cardassian love in the DS9 forum really caught me off-guard, though. There I see endless threads praising the race and its most prominent characters (i.e. Dukat, Garak) and a plethora of members with avatars and signatures inspired by them. I was a little bewildered and freaked out by it at first, but it's starting to make more sense to me as I get further along in watching DS9.

* A lot of people don't like Jadzia Dax.
From the moment I started watching DS9, I began falling in love with this character, and she's remained my favourite through the five and a half seasons I've watched so far. I've been really shocked and disappointed by all of the harsh criticism I've seen directed towards both the character and the actress who played it, but I can admit that some of it is understandable. As I have to endure all that, it's comforting to find out that at least some of you are in the same boat as me when it comes to Jadzia.

* "Star Trek: First Contact" has a lot of haters
This is a real "WTF?" for me. Especially after watching it again last night. I will say more when I start another thread about it, but I really didn't expect to see so many people putting down this movie when I first joined the forum. I was sure it would be unanimously praised just as it was by the critics when it came out, but I guess part of the appeal of this place is that people can be so unpredictable in their opinions (particularly in this case).

* Just how much people hate "Star Trek: Nemesis"
Okay, I knew "Star Trek: Nemesis" was unpopular before I came here, but I had no idea it was so reviled. It seems to be verbally eviscerated almost daily in the movie forum. I agree that it's bad, but I didn't know it was viewed as such an atrocity towards humankind.

So how about the rest of you? Were there any prevailing opinions within Star Trek fandom that you were surprised to discover upon joining and becoming familiar with this site and its community?

 

[Thrall]

Just a tiny minority hate Jadzia. She's considered to be one of the more popular characters on the show.

The Cardassians have a following because DS9 has a following.

 

[AdmiralGarak]

* The Cardassians have a cult following.
For any fan of DS9, this is hardly surprising. They're central to countless DS9 storylines, and many of the best developed characters on the show are Cardassians.


* A lot of people don't like Jadzia Dax.
A very vocal minority dislike Jadzia and/or Ezri Dax. The thread in the DS9 forum proves this. Navaros in particular has a serious hatred of Dax, and relishes tearing her to shreds whenever he gets an opportunity. I like Dax, but I admit he often makes a good point about her weaknesses as a character.


* "Star Trek: First Contact" has a lot of haters
I never noticed. It's usually referred to as the one good TNG movie.



As for myself-- What really gets me is the strong anti-TNG backlash around TrekBBS. It's obviously still very popular, but it's become vogue to bash the show for being too 80s-ish.
Conversely, the popularity of DS9 here is a refreshing surprising. It's usually the show that gets ignored and is never given a fair shake.

 

[kitsune]

• Many people not only love "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", but actually think it's one of the best Star Trek movies.

I've always been bothered by the size of V'ger's "energy cloud", it was exceedingly ridiculous. They should've just made it 'planet-sized'. At the piddly speed the Enterprise was going, it would still take hours to get to the center...

People on other sites have labeled it "The Motionless Picture"

I haven't heard that one before. I always called it "Star Trek: The Search For Real Colors"

• A lot of people don't like Jadzia Dax.

That surprised me, too. She's fun.

• "Star Trek: First Contact" has a lot of haters

I think this is the best of the TNG films, but I didn't find much to like about it. The Borg cube is defeated too easily, the concept of the Borg queen was introduced, time travel was involved, Picard goes Ahab, and I didn't find Cochrane or Lily likeable at all. The best part of the film, to me, was "I'm a doctor, not a doorstop!". Oh, and the scene of Picard shooting one of his own crew that was freshly assimilated. Could you see him doing that if it had been one of the senior staff?

• Just how much people hate "Star Trek: Nemesis"

Picard and Data both encounter evil twin brothers in the same movie. I don't think it was ever explained how the Romulans found B4...and their plan to use B4 was extremely far-fetched. And that Data uploaded his memory to B4 was extremely far-fetched. And the emergency transporter device was extremely far-fetched...

So how about the rest of you? Were there any prevailing opinions within Star Trek fandom that you were surprised to discover upon joining and becoming familiar with this site and its community?

I was very surprised to find fans of Voyager and Enterprise (please don't hit me!)

 

[Zulu Romeo]

Until I joined this website, I didn't know much about general opinions of Star Trek fans on all things Star Trek. I don't have a lot of friends who are Star Trek fans, and most other websites I've frequented haven't had a lot of Trekkies/Trekkers on them. As a result, there are a lot of opinions I was surprised to learn about since joining.

Infinite Opinions in Infinite Elaborations.

* Many people not only love "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", but actually think it's one of the best Star Trek movies.

It *was* one of the weaker films, but on reflection a lot of fans have taken to it quite favourably, especially given the recent Director's Edition which improves the SFX and tightens the editing even further. The pacing of the original was one of the problems of the film, especially the specially extended TV version I first saw. Plus, the Kirk-Spock-McCoy banter, a cornerstone of Trek mythology, is present as ever and helps keep the film afloat.

* The Cardassians have a cult following.

And if they didn't, they'd get all Obsidian on your ass.

There's a lot of love for the Cardassians among fans, especially the very vocal DS9 fanbase (the same could be said about Vulcans and Enterprise fans, perhaps) - their complexity, scheming, and multi-layeredness of character and culture set them apart from the other races who in comparison seem very one-note. Of course it helps that one series, the well-written DS9, focuses heavily on them. Perhaps the only race that can be compared to them, funnily enough, are the Humans. And by God, were they dull on Star Trek...

* A lot of people don't like Jadzia Dax.

I certainly loved her. Yet she was always at her best alongside a "straight" man such as Sisko, Odo, and especially Worf, to bounce off against. (pun definitely intended)

* "Star Trek: First Contact" has a lot of haters

I can understand why some people might hate it - it's essentially a zombie/action flick in Star Trek clothing. Then again, lots of people love the TNG episode "Starship Mine", essentially Die Hard on a Federation starship. Remember that some fans (probably the same ones) also disliked The Wrath of Khan and The Undiscovered Country for their darker tones and deviations from an optimistic vision of the future. Me, I loved those crazy, even-numbered films.

* Just how much people hate "Star Trek: Nemesis"

It was up against a Bond movie and a Lord of the Rings movie and a Harry Potter movie. No wonder it did poorly at the box office. And considering how much genre films have progressed during the 2000s, it did seem a little derivative and ultimately disappointing, but that's not to say it deserves universal hatred. It's not bad, just not quite TWOK.

I mean, people are now starting to like The Final Frontier now. (Sure, I personally feel DeForest Kelley's performance saved that film, but that's just me.)

As for myself-- What really gets me is the strong anti-TNG backlash around TrekBBS. It's obviously still very popular, but it's become vogue to bash the show for being too 80s-ish.

I never, ever, understood this. TNG was still a great show in its own right. I'm still a fan of the first season - it's charming, innocent, and Bev Crusher was smokin' hot - and yes, it never came into its own until the Michael Piller era, but I think a lot of the problem is due to this:

Conversely, the popularity of DS9 here is a refreshing surprising. It's usually the show that gets ignored and is never given a fair shake.

In hindsight, DS9 was seen as the better written show, and the appeal of multi-story arcs was huge - a sort of alternative to Babylon 5 if you will. [You can answer the replies to that one, ZR - everyone] All of a sudden, TNG's episodic structure and altruistic feel looked primitive compared to this bold way of television presentation. Yes, at the time TNG was more popular due to a) the lack of competition, b) the familiarity of a continuing series still going strong, c) the comparitive claustrophobia and darkness of DS9's first season, very much a place "under construction" at the time. I think that eventually people (well, DS9 fans anyway) regarded TNG as "shallow" compared to DS9's layered threads and interesting un-Trek-like characters.

And if there's a passionate subset of fans, they don't come quite as passionate as Niners. Well, maybe Enterprise fans.

 

[Nardpuncher]

I have been a Trek fan since 1986...and when I came to this board I thought there'd be a lot more love for Klingons, but thankfully I was wrong!

Also...I'm boggled by the love for Star Trek V!

 

[Captain X]

* Many people not only love "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", but actually think it's one of the best Star Trek movies.
I always assumed that like the cast and crew of the movie, as well as critics, Star Trek historians, and the few Star Trek fans I've seen on other sites, the hardcore Star Trek fans would agree that it's one of the weaker entries in the film franchise. People on other sites have labeled it "The Motionless Picture" and had nothing but derisive comments for it, but here (to my amazement) it's actually kicking ass in the best movies poll in the movie forum. Is this just nostalgia? Elevated opinions due to the director's cut? Or has the hardcore fanbase always been this enthusiastic about it?

I've always seen and thought of it as The Slow-Motion Picture, but I can't say I much care for it all that much. The Director's Cut is better, but it still has a pretty slow pace, IMO. What I like about it is mainly the more cerebral aspects of it, but even that isn't a whole bunch to write home about. I hate to make a blanket statement, but I think you'd find most of the people who like it were/are TOS devotes.

* The Cardassians have a cult following.

DS9 rules, nuff said. Actually it's a pity they weren't developed a bit more and given their own language.

* A lot of people don't like Jadzia Dax.

I've seen the hate, but presonally I don't get it. My only real nitpick about her is that I thought the producers went the wrong direction with her. They really should've made her more of a scientist instead of using her in far too many romance-of-the-week stories and focusing way too much on her wild side.

* "Star Trek: First Contact" has a lot of haters

This would actually surprise me too. I like it, personally. It has its weaknesses, but it's ok, and really the only good TNG movie.

* Just how much people hate "Star Trek: Nemesis"

This movie sucks like a massive hull breach. Mostly its because of the number of cliches, the poor attempt to rip off TWoK and give Picard a "worthy adversary" who wanted to kill all life on Earth for reasons that are never explained, is able to take over the Romulan government way too easily, etc. and its focus on VFX over plot - by far. It was an attempt to cash in on the Star Wars crowd by making it a mindless action flick with space battles - the same thing that's now being tried with Abrams Trek, which appears to have many of the same weaknesses.

So how about the rest of you? Were there any prevailing opinions within Star Trek fandom that you were surprised to discover upon joining and becoming familiar with this site and its community?

My main surprises were the negativity toward the TMP uniforms, since I don't see them any worse than the TOS and early TNG uniforms, and the negativity toward End Game. Oh, I was disappointed by VOY's last episode, no doubt, but I was surprised that VOY fans feel about it the way I do about TATV. As for other surprises, 'shipping was a new concept to me when I signed up here, and shortly after that I was shocked to see anyone saw "chemistry" between Archer and T'Pol, or that Archer had any fans to begin with since TPTB made him such an arrogant prick.

 

[anti-matter]

DS9 made Cardassians interesting ...if not fascinating.

I think trek fans have a hunger to explore other alien life in closer detail as long as they're just part of the story. One of ENT 's memorable characters was Shran the Andorian. Before then Andorians were nothing but a name or referance.

 

[SomniumRabidum]

I had no idea what other Trek fans were into before I came here either. I have no friends that are Trek fans

I was VERY surprised at the Cardassian following around here, shocked even.

The most surprising thing to me so far has been how many people actually like Janeway! I thought this was impossible.... but clearly I was wrong.

I also had no idea how sensitive the majority of Trek fans are, it's been eye opening to hang around here.

 

[Jono]

The entire DS9 following surprised me the most when I joined here. Of all the people I knew that liked Trek not one listed DS9 as their favourite series. I actually know more Voyager fans then DS9 fans for instance. If you go by the threads/posts then DS9 is second only to TOS and I definitely didn't expect that.

 

[Cyke101]

Until I joined this website, I didn't know much about general opinions of Star Trek fans on all things Star Trek. I don't have a lot of friends who are Star Trek fans, and most other websites I've frequented haven't had a lot of Trekkies/Trekkers on them. As a result, there are a lot of opinions I was surprised to learn about since joining. Among them are the following...

* Many people not only love "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", but actually think it's one of the best Star Trek movies.

I'm in this camp. As one reviewer put it, I sorely wish more Trek movies had conflicts that involved our heroes doing things for the sake of knowledge, not just to stop the Big Bad.

* The Cardassians have a cult following.

My cardassian mania is nowhere near as huge as some other board members here. But I've got a ton of respect for those who do!

* "Star Trek: First Contact" has a lot of haters

Yeah, this one surprised me, too. Then again...

* Just how much people hate "Star Trek: Nemesis"

i'm surprised with how many people like Nemesis. To each his own, I suppose...

I've always been bothered by the size of V'ger's "energy cloud", it was exceedingly ridiculous. They should've just made it 'planet-sized'. At the piddly speed the Enterprise was going, it would still take hours to get to the center...

Most space clouds and nebula are far bigger than a planet, and the concept behind V'Ger was to have a living nebula (we've seen living planets before in various sci-fi media), something monstrous and vast. To note, Enterprise was doing fine traveling at impulse within the cloud (2 AUs is still a long distance at impulse), but there was an instance where V'Ger tractored her in, thereby controlling her speed.

 

[Michael]

I'm right with you on this one, Too Much. There are many opinions I did not expect when I joined here.

* A lot of people don't like Jadzia Dax.

That was surprising to me as well. Jadzia Dax/Terry Farrell haters are a very vocal minority on this board. She isn't exactly my favorite character, but I always liked her (and her portrayal) just fine. I never imagined people could have a problem with her.

But the same goes for many other actors and actresses of the various series. Personally I never thought of Scott Bakula, Robert Beltran or Jennifer Lien as bad actors and always liked their characters. And yet there are many people on this board who found their performances woden and uninspired.

* Just how much people hate "Star Trek: Nemesis"

I was actually suprised by the number of people who like Nemesis! Honestly, I was always convinced everyone hated it just as much as I do.

Other things that surprised me when I joined are the love for the character of Dr. Pulaski (which is very pleasing, since I love her as well), the thought that Neelix was a paedophile because he loved Kes (that never occured to me) and the sheer amount of people defending Janeway's actions in Tuvix.

 

[Captain X]

A lot of people hate Beltran because he bashed Star Trek and its fans.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

* The Cardassians have a cult following.
I always knew that people love the Klingons as it's been a popular stereotype (based partially on fact) that Star Trek fans like to dress up as Klingons and learn the Klingon language. The same goes for Vulcans (minus the language), which is a given since Spock is so popular. I figured the Romulans and Borg would have a lot of fans too, since at certain times they've been the supreme bad ass villains of the Star Trek world.

All the Cardassian love in the DS9 forum really caught me off-guard, though. There I see endless threads praising the race and its most prominent characters (i.e. Dukat, Garak) and a plethora of members with avatars and signatures inspired by them. I was a little bewildered and freaked out by it at first, but it's starting to make more sense to me as I get further along in watching DS9.

The Borg...I used to think they were the best until Voyager came along.

The Cardassians are the race that have consistently gotten the best, and most in-depth writing. Heck, they were set up to be that way right from "The Wounded."

Just remember...I'm like a conservator. I'll bring you around to the wisdom of the state eventually. You see? You're already starting to get it...

Oh, and Captain X...you wanted to see a Cardassian language? I've got some stories filled with it...

* A lot of people don't like Jadzia Dax.
From the moment I started watching DS9, I began falling in love with this character, and she's remained my favourite through the five and a half seasons I've watched so far. I've been really shocked and disappointed by all of the harsh criticism I've seen directed towards both the character and the actress who played it, but I can admit that some of it is understandable. As I have to endure all that, it's comforting to find out that at least some of you are in the same boat as me when it comes to Jadzia.

It's not Terry Farrell I have a problem with. It's the way the character was written that I don't like. I also felt the Worf-Jadzia thing didn't come off convincingly, and unfortunately that was a major facet of the character.

* "Star Trek: First Contact" has a lot of haters
This is a real "WTF?" for me. Especially after watching it again last night. I will say more when I start another thread about it, but I really didn't expect to see so many people putting down this movie when I first joined the forum. I was sure it would be unanimously praised just as it was by the critics when it came out, but I guess part of the appeal of this place is that people can be so unpredictable in their opinions (particularly in this case).

That one surprised me, too. I LOVE that movie to bits. Yes, there was the Borg Queen, but before Voyager, I can live with it. Nor do I have any problem with the Captain Ahab bit.

Oh, and the point about "would Picard have shot one of his senior staff." I actually think he would have--both as a mercy killing AND because of the amount of classified information said officer would be carrying around in their head.

* Just how much people hate "Star Trek: Nemesis"
Okay, I knew "Star Trek: Nemesis" was unpopular before I came here, but I had no idea it was so reviled. It seems to be verbally eviscerated almost daily in the movie forum. I agree that it's bad, but I didn't know it was viewed as such an atrocity towards humankind.

Nemesis...wasn't the best Trek movie by any means, but boy when you put it up against Insurrection or Star Trek V...it definitely stands WAY above those. I mainly watch Nemesis for the action and effects; I tend to ignore the other stuff.

 

[Myasishchev]

I absolutely hated First Contact, and was happy to find others who did.

The part where he shoots his crewman is inexplicable as a rational action. Picard knows that a man can be saved from the Borg: his crew risked everything to save him! He obviously wasn't quite rehabilitated, but he was alive and apparently pretty happy. Way to repay the favor, asshole.

Also, the Borg are lame hand-to-hand villains. The lamest. They are stupid, slow and a lot more stoppable than people like to think.

Throw in the underminer of the Borg Queen concept and the huge logical problems that, if fixed, would have indeed obviated the entire struggle between the Feds and the Borg, and it was a complete recipe for disaster.

I was surprised when I got here to discover so many disliked Generations. Now, I'll admit that that film too has huge logical problems, but it was trying to be a good movie and imo largely succeeded. That is the only good TNG film.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I'd mention that Picard was saved--but only after being forced to disclose a LOT of critical information that, if not for him breaking through in that one moment, AND Data making the leap to understand what he meant, things might've gone entirely the other way. So I can see why the idea of death-before-assimilation would have come about.

 

[The Badger]

The part where he shoots his crewman is inexplicable as a rational action.

I always thought that was the point of the scene. Although he retains the pretence of rationality, Picard's hatred of the Borg is such that he has become irrational. To paraphrase Lilly from later in the film, they hurt him, now all he wants is too hurt them.
All that business about how he was doing the crewman a favour by mercy killing him seems like an attempt to justify his action, not just too Lilly, but too himself.

 

[Myasishchev]

The part where he shoots his crewman is inexplicable as a rational action.

I always thought that was the point of the scene. Although he retains the pretence of rationality, Picard's hatred of the Borg is such that he has become irrational. To paraphrase Lilly from later in the film, they hurt him, now all he wants is too hurt them.
All that business about how he was doing the crewman a favour by mercy killing him seems like an attempt to justify his action, not just too Lilly, but too himself.

That's why I don't think the scene was bad in and of itself, but, as was apparent with Riker and his dead-ass clone, we get further proof that there's no crime of manslaughter in the Federation.

 

[The Badger]

^ Good point. I suppose in this case it comes down to how Borg are seen in Federation rules of engagement. Should Picard have treated that particular Borg differently because it was once a member of his crew? If so, why should killing that one be any different to killing a Borg who was assimilated earlier, one of the crew of the Sphere, who presumably had no more wish to be their than any one else?
Seems you can either regard all Borg as enemy combatants, or none. And if the answer is none good luck fighting them!

 

[JustKate]

The things that really puzzled me when I started revisiting Trek websites (which is only fairly recently - I burned out on them during my early days on the Internet, when it kind of seemed as though most of the participants really did live in their parents' basement ) were:

1. That there are people who like Trek but who truly loathe DS9 and Voyager. I can understand these not being your favorites, but if you like TOS and TNG...well, what's not to at least mildly like about DS9 and Voyager? Do NOT get it. I admit that I don't like ENT...but I don't loathe it. Don't get the loathing at all, at all.

2. That there are people who not only like Riker but really love him. Jonathan Frakes seems like a very nice guy, but the Riker character is boring and derivative, and his acting is formulaic and predictable. I mean, you always knew exactly how he was going to stand when defying an enemy - in fact, exactly how he was going to look and sound under every conceivable Trek circumstance. Always. I figured he had to have a fair number of people who at least somewhat liked him or else presumably they would have fired him and gotten somebody else. But when I hear all these really harsh criticisms of the acting of some of the other regulars (Siritis, Crosby, McFadden), I don't understand why Frakes gets a free pass. I love the show, but I love it in spite of Frakes. (Sorry, WillsBabe and Praetor some of my other Riker-likin' pals!)

3. I, too, was surprised by the genuine dislike for characters that I always thought were at least OK. I agree with those who say that that dislike isn't really that widely shared - if they were really that bad and that unpopular, the actors would have been fired - but I remain perplexed by the strength of these negative emotions,

4. I was surprised to find so many other people who like Romulans and Cardassians - until I began interacting with Trekdom, I sometimes wondered if I was the only one. I thought everybody but me really liked Klingons.

5. Confession: I have never really liked any of the movies. A couple of them were at least somewhat enjoyable, but none have come even close to the TV series, IMO. So I'm still surprised to find that anybody can be genuinely enthusiastic about any of them.