Surprising Star Trek fan opinions

[datagal]

* Just how much people hate "Star Trek: Nemesis"
Okay, I knew "Star Trek: Nemesis" was unpopular before I came here, but I had no idea it was so reviled. It seems to be verbally eviscerated almost daily in the movie forum. I agree that it's bad, but I didn't know it was viewed as such an atrocity towards humankind.

I kind of like Nemesis. I don't think that it was one of the best, but compare to Insurrection, I love it more.
I knew that Nemesis was going down when Maid in Manhattan opened at #1 and Nemesis opened at #2 at the box office.
Maid in Manhattan starring Jennifer Lopez.
If that's not sad, then I don't know what is.

 

[Thor Damar]

It always pleases me when someone notes the Cardassian fans on this board, after all they are not the most famous of the Trek races. But they are the most compelling and dramatic cultures in Sci-fi.

I would even go so far as to say that it was the Magnificent Scaly Bastards (MSBs) that got me into ST. 'Duet' was the first DS9 that I saw and the quality of acting blew me away. It also introduced me to the Cardassian Monologue and from then on in I was hooked. (seriously the Cardassians could make any language sound great)

As for the Cardassian language itself? My one regret about DS9 was that we never got to see either Dukat, Garak or Damar talk in their native tongue. Instead we got Klingon

 

[WillsBabe]

(Sorry, WillsBabe and Praetor some of my other Riker-likin' pals!)

That's okay, honey.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

As for the Cardassian language itself? My one regret about DS9 was that we never got to see either Dukat, Garak or Damar talk in their native tongue. Instead we got Klingon

PM me if you want me to record a sentence and e-mail it. Please nothing that's TOO difficult for me to translate--keep it simple.

 

[JustKate]

(Sorry, WillsBabe and Praetor some of my other Riker-likin' pals!)

That's okay, honey.

Glad to hear it. You are so gracious! If you only knew how long I considered before posting it!

 

[Captain X]

VOY was TNG in the Delta Quadrant, or at least a very poor attempt at it. That's just one of the reasons I don't like it. Character development was another problem it had in that more often than not it sucked. Janeway was either the mother of the ship and crew, or she was Insaneway, and I didn't care for either version of her - I wanted a leader. I also wanted the show to live up to its premise, but UPN saw too it that it didn't. Basically VOY and ENT are case in points of what went wrong with the franchise, for reasons I could write essays about (and maybe someday will). DS9 remains the best the franchise had to offer. Most of the people who didn't like it wanted the old episodic storytelling of the TOS and TNG heydays, and were mainly turned off because it took place on the station. Apparently a character-centric show didn't appeal to them, so some of them still whine about that. There are also those who still whine about the militarism and the war later in the series.

 

[Myasishchev]

The things that really puzzled me when I started revisiting Trek websites (which is only fairly recently - I burned out on them during my early days on the Internet, when it kind of seemed as though most of the participants really did live in their parents' basement ) were:

1. That there are people who like Trek but who truly loathe DS9 and Voyager. I can understand these not being your favorites, but if you like TOS and TNG...well, what's not to at least mildly like about DS9 and Voyager? Do NOT get it. I admit that I don't like ENT...but I don't loathe it. Don't get the loathing at all, at all.

I can. It's a diminishing returns thing, I think. Like Captain X said, VOY was TNG Part 2, but in every way worse and getting worser. ENT I don't loathe, mainly because at least they tried to undo the damage they caused, even if (arguably) unsuccessfully--VOY kept ruining Trek right to the bitter end.

2. That there are people who not only like Riker but really love him. Jonathan Frakes seems like a very nice guy, but the Riker character is boring and derivative, and his acting is formulaic and predictable. I mean, you always knew exactly how he was going to stand when defying an enemy - in fact, exactly how he was going to look and sound under every conceivable Trek circumstance. Always. I figured he had to have a fair number of people who at least somewhat liked him or else presumably they would have fired him and gotten somebody else. But when I hear all these really harsh criticisms of the acting of some of the other regulars (Siritis, Crosby, McFadden), I don't understand why Frakes gets a free pass. I love the show, but I love it in spite of Frakes. (Sorry, WillsBabe and Praetor some of my other Riker-likin' pals!)

See, I find this opinion surprising. I thought everybody liked Riker. I mean, I can see why one wouldn't, but he's just so damned affable.

3. I, too, was surprised by the genuine dislike for characters that I always thought were at least OK. I agree with those who say that that dislike isn't really that widely shared - if they were really that bad and that unpopular, the actors would have been fired - but I remain perplexed by the strength of these negative emotions,

Converse of the above, I guess.

4. I was surprised to find so many other people who like Romulans and Cardassians - until I began interacting with Trekdom, I sometimes wondered if I was the only one. I thought everybody but me really liked Klingons.

I didn't find it so surprising that there were hardcore Romulan and Cardassian fans--I figured there had to be at least two of the former, named Diane Duane and Peter Morwood... and it didn't surprise me that there were more. What I do find surprising is that the Klingon-love that is stereotypical to the Star Trek nerd is either nearly invisible here or indeed nonexistent. I might be wrong, but it seems that many people are about as sick of the Klingons as I am, and most seem to freely acknowledge their society's in-universe weaknesses as well as their out-of-universe overexposure.

5. Confession: I have never really liked any of the movies. A couple of them were at least somewhat enjoyable, but none have come even close to the TV series, IMO. So I'm still surprised to find that anybody can be genuinely enthusiastic about any of them.

Not me. If I had to choose between the total eradication of all copies of one or the other, I'd rather have Star Treks II-IV than the entire original series. Best Trek story ever? It may be.

 

[plynch]

The OP asks what opinions we were surprised at.

1. I will echo surprise at the disliking of Terry Farrell and/or Jadzia. Her acting is fine; the character is fine. I don't get it.

2. Once I posted wondering why Odo would fall in love with someone since "love" is nature's way of pairing up and bonding two sexual beings to make and rear young ones. A number of people couldn't deal with that understanding of love; this surprised me only because this is a BBS about a "science" fiction show, and I expected people to be ok with evolution, sociobiology, whatever you wanna call it. Many weren't. Which is fine.

 

[plynch]

Another one: I am a TOS fan, and I have been surprised at the number who love terrible episodes because of their cheese or camp. I am too serious, I suppose. (But "Whom Gods Destroy??? C'mon people!!)

 

[JustKate]

I can. It's a diminishing returns thing, I think. Like Captain X said, VOY was TNG Part 2, but in every way worse and getting worser. ENT I don't loathe, mainly because at least they tried to undo the damage they caused, even if (arguably) unsuccessfully--VOY kept ruining Trek right to the bitter end.

Well, I disagree on "ruining," but be that as it may, my point isn't that everybody should just adore all the Treks because clearly that's not possible. I certainly can't do that. My point is that I don't get the loathing, and some of it is loathing, pure and simple.

See, I find this opinion surprising. I thought everybody liked Riker. I mean, I can see why one wouldn't, but he's just so damned affable.

He's affable, sure. We could have had an interesting or unconventional or challenging first officer. Instead we ended up with "affable." Forgive me for controlling my enthusiasm. I really wanted something different, someone not a stereotypical Gallant Skirt-Chasing Starfleet Officer as first officer, but I had to wait for DS9 and VOY for that. (At least the stereotypical Gallant Skirt-Chasing Starfleet Officer wasn't the captain this time.)

Plus, Frakes really wasn't a very good actor.

Most people do like Riker. I, however, didn't, right from the start. And if you think I sound anti-Riker, you should hear my husband. I mean, at least Riker is nice to look at, which gives me something to do when he's onscreen, but my poor husband doesn't even have that consolation. (He consistently refers to him as "that stiff.")

Not me. If I had to choose between the total eradication of all copies of one or the other, I'd rather have Star Treks II-IV than the entire original series. Best Trek story ever? It may be.

Blech. Well, I'm glad somebody enjoyed them. I'm exaggerating slightly - I did like IV - but best Trek ever? Not to me.

 

[Mysterion]

People on other sites have labeled it "The Motionless Picture"

I haven't heard that one before. I always called it "Star Trek: The Search For Real Colors"

Or:

Star Trek: Where Nomad Has Gone Before

 

[Myasishchev]

People on other sites have labeled it "The Motionless Picture"

I haven't heard that one before. I always called it "Star Trek: The Search For Real Colors"

Or:

Star Trek: Where Nomad Has Gone Before

Blech. Well, I'm glad somebody enjoyed them. I'm exaggerating slightly - I did like IV - but best Trek ever? Not to me.

Well, I doubt I'm going to change any minds, but it to me it was the emotionally involving period of Trek (with the possible exception of DS9's closing arc). Treks II-IV are the only time that Kirk ever pays for his exceedingly dangerous lifestyle, and he pays, like he says, in "dearest blood." When Spock dies, I tear up, when Kirk reacts to David's death, I tear up, and when Spock comes back to life (fair trade?), I cry like a little baby. Then we all get to chill out while they goof off in 198x with some whales.

 

[JustKate]

^ It sounds so great the way you describe it! Alas...

 

[kitsune]

Once I posted wondering why Odo would fall in love with someone since "love" is nature's way of pairing up and bonding two sexual beings to make and rear young ones. A number of people couldn't deal with that understanding of love; this surprised me only because this is a BBS about a "science" fiction show, and I expected people to be ok with evolution, sociobiology, whatever you wanna call it. Many weren't. Which is fine.

I always expected Odo would be really fun in bed, what with his shape-shifting ability allowing him to...uhm...fully conform to his partner.

 

[kitsune]

People on other sites have labeled it "The Motionless Picture"

I haven't heard that one before. I always called it "Star Trek: The Search For Real Colors"

Or:

Star Trek: Where Nomad Has Gone Before

Star Trek: The Wrath of Pastel

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

Until I joined this website, I didn't know much about general opinions of Star Trek fans on all things Star Trek. I don't have a lot of friends who are Star Trek fans, and most other websites I've frequented haven't had a lot of Trekkies/Trekkers on them. As a result, there are a lot of opinions I was surprised to learn about since joining. Among them are the following...

Thread topics/themes come and go. One month, there could be tons of hating on TFF, and then months later the Movies Forum vibe could be a complete 180 with nothing but praise for TFF.

Trek fans like myself like to hate and love all their Trek simultaneously, staunchly defending yet nitpicking the same piece of work. A true fan cares... about everything. That's part of what makes being a Trek fan so great and unique.

 

[Gary7]

The things that really puzzled me when I started revisiting Trek websites were:

1. That there are people who like Trek but who truly loathe DS9 and Voyager. I can understand these not being your favorites, but if you like TOS and TNG...well, what's not to at least mildly like about DS9 and Voyager? Do NOT get it. I admit that I don't like ENT...but I don't loathe it. Don't get the loathing at all, at all.

Yes, I do not get the loathing thing either. It's almost like some people crave to pick a series or two as an antithesis to the series they enjoy. Every series has its merits and flaws. Those who loathe should step back and appreciate the fact that we've got something to talk about. The way some purists behave, we'd all be going circles on the same conversations about TOS--completely talked to death.

2. That there are people who not only like Riker but really love him. Jonathan Frakes seems like a very nice guy, but the Riker character is boring and derivative, and his acting is formulaic and predictable. I mean, you always knew exactly how he was going to stand when defying an enemy - in fact, exactly how he was going to look and sound under every conceivable Trek circumstance. Always. I figured he had to have a fair number of people who at least somewhat liked him or else presumably they would have fired him and gotten somebody else. But when I hear all these really harsh criticisms of the acting of some of the other regulars (Siritis, Crosby, McFadden), I don't understand why Frakes gets a free pass. I love the show, but I love it in spite of Frakes. (Sorry, WillsBabe and Praetor some of my other Riker-likin' pals!)

I think you nailed it. Riker had way too much starch in his shirts for my liking. Not very dimensional. So often predictable. He did have a few good episodes, but mostly he's insipid.

4. I was surprised to find so many other people who like Romulans and Cardassians - until I began interacting with Trekdom, I sometimes wondered if I was the only one. I thought everybody but me really liked Klingons.

Each interstellar race has its merits. I just wish the Romulans had been explored more in TNG. They also seemed to be portrayed as technologically superior. Certainly the cloaking device gave them an extra edge. But in terms of firepower, it always felt to me like the Enterprise was running scared. I'd have liked to see a two part episode skirmish between the Romulans and the Federation, with a flavor we never quite got from TOS. The Cardassians were brilliantly developed in DS9, thankfully.

5. Confession: I have never really liked any of the movies. A couple of them were at least somewhat enjoyable, but none have come even close to the TV series, IMO. So I'm still surprised to find that anybody can be genuinely enthusiastic about any of them.

That I'm surprised about... given your stance on being accepting of all Star Trek series. I thought TWOK was brilliant. TSFP was a bit lacking... definitely thought the whole rapid aging of Spock thing was a ridiculous charade. But it did give us the first all out destruction of the Enterprise--memorable sight. And Christopher Lloyd as a very enjoyable Klingon. TVH (IV) was a bit contrived... and formula. Way top heavy on the comedy. But it was easy to enjoy. I didn't care for the two that followed. Sybok was so over done. The whole conspiracy thing in TUC was too commonplace and predictable for me. I felt sad that the original series had to end on that flat note.

 

[Myasishchev]

Yes, I do not get the loathing thing either. It's almost like some people crave to pick a series or two as an antithesis to the series they enjoy. Every series has its merits and flaws. Those who loathe should step back and appreciate the fact that we've got something to talk about. The way some purists behave, we'd all be going circles on the same conversations about TOS--completely talked to death.

I actually do appreciate Voyager and Enterprise on that level, if it's any consolation. God bless SF Debris.

 

[Tachyon]

1. That there are people who like Trek but who truly loathe DS9 and Voyager. I can understand these not being your favorites, but if you like TOS and TNG...well, what's not to at least mildly like about DS9 and Voyager? Do NOT get it. I admit that I don't like ENT...but I don't loathe it. Don't get the loathing at all, at all.

3. I, too, was surprised by the genuine dislike for characters that I always thought were at least OK. I agree with those who say that that dislike isn't really that widely shared - if they were really that bad and that unpopular, the actors would have been fired - but I remain perplexed by the strength of these negative emotions,

Exactly. You and I have had a short discussion about this before as well, but this one never stops puzzling me, to be honest.

VOY was TNG in the Delta Quadrant, or at least a very poor attempt at it. That's just one of the reasons I don't like it.

And TNG was TOS couple of decades later. No one seems to hate TNG, though, at least not as passionately than Voyager seems to be hated by many.

 

[JustKate]

That I'm surprised about... given your stance on being accepting of all Star Trek series. I thought TWOK was brilliant. TSFP was a bit lacking... definitely thought the whole rapid aging of Spock thing was a ridiculous charade. But it did give us the first all out destruction of the Enterprise--memorable sight. And Christopher Lloyd as a very enjoyable Klingon. TVH (IV) was a bit contrived... and formula. Way top heavy on the comedy. But it was easy to enjoy. I didn't care for the two that followed. Sybok was so over done. The whole conspiracy thing in TUC was too commonplace and predictable for me. I felt sad that the original series had to end on that flat note.

It's not that I didn't like the movies at all...I just never have liked any of them that much. Maybe my expectations were too high. Or something. I wanted to love them, but I just couldn't find that luuuuuv in my heart.

But no, I never have liked TWOK at all, but then, I haven't seen it in years. So maybe I'd like it better now. Maybe.