Supernatural5x16 "Dark Side of the Moon" discussion/spoilerish

[mswood]

I just don't buy it, as it appears they are going through jumps from one memory to another, you would think Dean would be smart enough to judge that three memories don't make up a person.

As we've seen Dean is less of a thinker and more of an emotionally impulsive type so I don't think he was considering that these memories were just a slice of Sam's life. And these memories were pretty much the final straw--this has been building over many seasons--when it came to the tension over Sam leaving the family to go off to college. It really had less to do with Dean resenting Sam for wanting a normal life but more to do with Sam's normal life not including Dean. I think Dean felt that Sam saw a normal life as one not only being free from hunting and supernatural phenomena but one free from his dysfunctional family. And frankly, I think deep down in some ways that is true although Sam wouldn't necessarily acknowledge it.

Yeah but Dean usually (the exception of say Scarecrow after recently having him back in his life) represses all that, but its usually been threats that actually cause him to lash out. And if this had happened in episode 3, then I would absolutely buy it. As his abandonment issues had been really worked with Sam in the end of season 1 (start of season 2), with Sam being the one keeping them together more (certainly season three), but with both brothers pushing the other away during season 4, I can see them resurfacing. But Sam has been very open to Dean lately (for what based on episodes about 4 - 5 months), he's been the one waiting to be back with his brother (not Dean), Dean actually enjoying his time not having his brother with him.

Heck even faced with Sam's addiction to blood (and the bad memories that brings with it) Dean saw Sam being open and honest, and more even more so probably more drunk on power then ever before (certainly had more blood at one time then he has ever had), see him control his actions and work as a force of good.

 

[Dorian Thompson]

Sam was also killed when whatshername blew him out of his shoes in season four's "Wishful Thinking."

 

[Snaploud]

I just don't buy it, as it appears they are going through jumps from one memory to another, you would think Dean would be smart enough to judge that three memories don't make up a person.

It's not just about the three memories. It's about the separate heavens. They said that only soul-mates get to be in the same heaven, and Dean is depressed that he wouldn't get to spend heaven with his brother (which he believes is due to his brother not loving him enough).

Sure, he never expected to get into heaven, but the idea that his brother doesn't love him enough to hang out with him in heaven...that's like a sledgehammer to the head for Dean.

 

[startrekwatcher]

It's not just about the three memories. It's about the separate heavens. They said that only soul-mates get to be in the same heaven, and Dean is depressed that he wouldn't get to spend heaven with his brother (which he believes is due to his brother not loving him enough).

I might be wrong but the impression I got from the episode was Sam and Dean were soul-mates. Afterall, their entire lives and their fates have been intertwined from the beginning including ultimately being the vessels for good and evil--in heaven they would be together. I thought to move from one person's heaven to someone else's you needed directions and the person drawing an angelic script like we saw Ash do when rescuing the guys from Zach in the woods and then as Ash did in his heaven at the bar to let them jump back to their heaven.

We never saw the guys do that just simply jump from one of the brother's memories to the next so it was a kind of shared heaven where they took turns generating certain memories.

 

[mswood]

I also took it that Dean and Sam were soul mates. Though I don't think it occurred to them how they could travel together. As they did inhabit each other's Heaven they just didn't start at the same point.

Obviously Dean didn't because that would seem kind of odd with his outburst.

 

[mswood]

Sam was also killed when whatshername blew him out of his shoes in season four's "Wishful Thinking."

I seriously thought of that. But if Heaven held Sam in heaven then, certainly when he held the higher moral ground and died remaining true to himself, surely he would have been in Heaven then.

 

[AliciaD496]

OK...so I've been thinking about this episode and rewatched it thanks to iTunes and I had an idea (OK, that I've heard elsewhere but it makes sense).

I think the angels manipulated the memories that the boys saw. It's not like Zach or anyone else is above manipulating them and their memories after all (ala their time in corporate life in It's a Terrible Life). It seems like the perfect way to demoralize all of them, and more specifically Dean. Sure, it's probably what Sam's heaven would be like anyway (although I'd imagine an eternal Thanksgiving dinner as an 11-year-old would get boring after a while, at least fireworks would be fun). Wouldn't he have rather had a memory of Jessica or his time at Stanford? I would think that's what he'd miss her more than some memory of a normal Thanksgiving with a family he hardly knew. That's why I think Zach may have been messing with them from the beginning. I just hope Dean snaps out of it and realizes that sooner than later. They even SAW him manipulating a memory with the whole creepy scene with Mary.

A couple of other thoughts...this whole 'soul mates' discussion. As pointed out Dean never had to draw symbols on a door to get through, or have someone guide him somewhere, so maybe they WERE sharing an area of heaven together. Then again maybe the road Dean drove down WAS the axis mundi (?) and Sam's was the next nearest area. I liked the cool visual as he drove down the road, too.

The other touch that I liked was as they panned back from the race car track you could see what looked like a 4 year old's feet before they showed the older Sam and Dean. That and the room was the same set they used back in The Song Remains the Same for Dean's room.

The part that does suck, though, is that Joshua's message likely wasn't a Zach inspired manipulation. That alone is enough to knock the wind out of all their sails. I wonder how they're going to play the fall out from all this next week.