New episode tonight, kids. Can't wait. 
Supernatural5x16 "Dark Side of the Moon" discussion/spoilerish
- Thread starter Dorian Thompson
- Start date
hmm im guessing either something Pink Floyd related or Werewolf. Maybe Wizard of Oz.
My God, that scene with Dean and his mother was tragic. 
And Sam was locked out because he has no real memories of Mary. Awwww....Bonesy.
And Sam was locked out because he has no real memories of Mary. Awwww....Bonesy.Dean throwing the amulet away--wow. Could be the most powerful moment ever. The second incarnation of Mary was ghastly. Samantha Smith sure can bring the ominous.
So who IS GOD, DAMMIT??!! I still think it's Gabriel/Trickster. Richard Speight Jr is coming back at some point. He's confirmed that on facebook. Seriously--I'm pissed off at God. Though it's consistent with our God if He indeed exists. I'm a deist. God doesn't seem to interfere with any of life's tragedies.
Could be the most powerful moment ever. The second incarnation of Mary was ghastly. Samantha Smith sure can bring the ominous. So who IS GOD, DAMMIT??!! I still think it's Gabriel/Trickster. Richard Speight Jr is coming back at some point. He's confirmed that on facebook. Seriously--I'm pissed off at God. Though it's consistent with our God if He indeed exists. I'm a deist. God doesn't seem to interfere with any of life's tragedies.
Good episode but I have to say I'm growing sick of the increasing hopelessness of the brothers' fight aganist the Apocalypse. Yes, it's realistic concerning the odds aganist them with someone as powerful as the Devil on one side and the Angels bent on completing their twisted grand design on the other. But I want to see some light at the end of this dark tunnel. I want Dean to go beyond this depression he's been in since Ellen and Jo died. I want Dean to have more faith in himself and his brother. The same goes for Castiel who's running very low on faith now after the bombshell Sam and Dean gave him about God refusing to step in with what's going on.
This was pretty good--not great--a bit uneven. Maybe I had too high expectations based on the episode description I had read earlier in the week.
Things I liked:
the story idea was actually fresh and one of the more clever ones the series has come up with made even more so by how run-of-the-mill this season has been.
the actor's portrayal of Joshua
the Joshua character-I hope we see him again.
the way the fatal gunshot to Dean bled into the blood red of the opening credits
loved the warm fuzzy evoked by the first scene in heaven with Dean and young Sam framed with the beautiful fireworks and "Knockin' on Heaven's Door"--a perfect scene in every way and quite emotional moving even though it was brief.
my favorite scene was the whole exchange in the Garden and the way the series is presenting God as a detached figure while Dean and Sam pin all their final hopes on him stepping in and righting everything. Now they are back to square one and no way that now they can see a way out.
I actually liked the deus ex machina here to bring back the guys. We all knew from the beginning that the boys would be back alive by end of episode and therefore given how important they are alive this seemed a wholly appropriate way to achieve it.
I also liked how the trip to heaven gave the boys some relief. They have been carrying around the guilt of still being alive while they've watched everyone they know and love die--seeing how content and happy Pam and Ash are I would think certainly takes a bit of the sting away and gives them some solace.
things I were "meh" on:
Some of the attempted heartfelt moments for the characters in revisiting their childhoods felt a little too coy for me. They felt forced in some instances like Sam and the dog memory instead of natural like the scene with Mary and young Dean in the kitchen which worked much better.
Ash. I never cared for him beyond a plot device in season 2 so revisiting him was non-effecting. Pamela was a tad better but overall I could see what the writers were doing assuming that this was going to be the last season to have a stroll down memory lane and what better place than heaven given all those that they've lost in the line of duty.
Zach started out in "Its a Terrible Life" as a potentially interesting character but over the last year he has really fallen flat as a character and certainly as an atagonist to the boys. Get rid of him. I certainly didn't think the episode needed to include him oogling over Mary to provoke Dean and highlight how smarmy he is.
I also didn't buy that Walt and Roy were clever enough hunters to get the drop on Sam and Dean but I was willing to look past it in order to let it get the story rolling. I would have preferred seeing them going down in the middle of a fight with a group of demons or something. I wouldn't have even minded a less heroic death it was just that the way these two hunters were portrayed made them seem bumbling.
I think the good outweighed the middling. In some ways it reminds me of "Song Remains the Same" where I went in expecting a classic 4 star episode and was surprised by how it aimed to be a middle-of the road mostly solid by the book execution.
I'm leaning towards a B.
Things I liked:
the story idea was actually fresh and one of the more clever ones the series has come up with made even more so by how run-of-the-mill this season has been.
the actor's portrayal of Joshua
the Joshua character-I hope we see him again.
the way the fatal gunshot to Dean bled into the blood red of the opening credits
loved the warm fuzzy evoked by the first scene in heaven with Dean and young Sam framed with the beautiful fireworks and "Knockin' on Heaven's Door"--a perfect scene in every way and quite emotional moving even though it was brief.
my favorite scene was the whole exchange in the Garden and the way the series is presenting God as a detached figure while Dean and Sam pin all their final hopes on him stepping in and righting everything. Now they are back to square one and no way that now they can see a way out.
I actually liked the deus ex machina here to bring back the guys. We all knew from the beginning that the boys would be back alive by end of episode and therefore given how important they are alive this seemed a wholly appropriate way to achieve it.
I also liked how the trip to heaven gave the boys some relief. They have been carrying around the guilt of still being alive while they've watched everyone they know and love die--seeing how content and happy Pam and Ash are I would think certainly takes a bit of the sting away and gives them some solace.
things I were "meh" on:
Some of the attempted heartfelt moments for the characters in revisiting their childhoods felt a little too coy for me. They felt forced in some instances like Sam and the dog memory instead of natural like the scene with Mary and young Dean in the kitchen which worked much better.
Ash. I never cared for him beyond a plot device in season 2 so revisiting him was non-effecting. Pamela was a tad better but overall I could see what the writers were doing assuming that this was going to be the last season to have a stroll down memory lane and what better place than heaven given all those that they've lost in the line of duty.
Zach started out in "Its a Terrible Life" as a potentially interesting character but over the last year he has really fallen flat as a character and certainly as an atagonist to the boys. Get rid of him. I certainly didn't think the episode needed to include him oogling over Mary to provoke Dean and highlight how smarmy he is.
I also didn't buy that Walt and Roy were clever enough hunters to get the drop on Sam and Dean but I was willing to look past it in order to let it get the story rolling. I would have preferred seeing them going down in the middle of a fight with a group of demons or something. I wouldn't have even minded a less heroic death it was just that the way these two hunters were portrayed made them seem bumbling.
I think the good outweighed the middling. In some ways it reminds me of "Song Remains the Same" where I went in expecting a classic 4 star episode and was surprised by how it aimed to be a middle-of the road mostly solid by the book execution.
I'm leaning towards a B.
They'll get there. This isn't Star Trek, you know.
Star Trek Watcher, almost a B? I believe in miracles. You're a brutally tough customer. That's good from you. Get rid of Zachariah, though? No, no, no. Zachariah isn't flat. I love Zachariah. The little touches like him stroking Mary's bare arm are so delightfully sadistic. I adore Kurt Fuller, though. You found Sam and the dog coy? I'm not sure I understand. The bit with the dog wasn't about the dog; it was about Sam's "heaven" having been during a time when he was away from Dean. Ouch.
J
Jetfire
Guest
Pretty good. We all know Sam got the necklace out of the trash. Maybe it can still do them some good.
That was great.
That was great.
Man, Heaven kind of stinks.
Walt and Roy, eh? No wonder it's like Disney.
Walt and Roy, eh? No wonder it's like Disney.
Well... there ya have it... in a nutshell.... god won't help...
and i don't freeking blame him either.... it all comes down to Free Will....
Do you have free will or don't you, God or any righteous entity you worship is not going to tell you what to do or how to do it... if they do.... they earn the karma for the actions not you...
they learn the lesson and it's your lesson to learn.... god giving you the answers is not going to furthur you on the path of your spiritual unfoldment.
and i don't freeking blame him either.... it all comes down to Free Will....
Do you have free will or don't you, God or any righteous entity you worship is not going to tell you what to do or how to do it... if they do.... they earn the karma for the actions not you...
they learn the lesson and it's your lesson to learn.... god giving you the answers is not going to furthur you on the path of your spiritual unfoldment.
^seeing some parrallels between this season of Supernatural and this season of Lost in regards to free will
Absolutely loved tonights episode though.
Absolutely loved tonights episode though.
...especially for the people who don't know how to use string theory to get out of their boxes. It reminds me more of a variation on hell than heaven.
Checkmate
Commodore
You have to remember that the implication was they didn't even realize they were in Heaven. Dean was a little confused at first, but he quickly acclimated to the scenario. It wasn't until Castiel contacted him and snapped him out of the reverie. Same thing with Sam until Dean showed up.
Ash (great to see him again) was probably one of the few people keen enough to see through it. And once he did, he had the know-how to figure out how to jump around, "awakening" other people.
Anyway, I really liked the episode. I actually liked God's response. It seems pretty obvious to me that he's testing mankind's mettle more than truly being despondent and forlorn. That, or he actually is in a funk and the only way to snap him out of it is to prove that his allegedly greatest creation -- man -- can overcome the approaching Apocalypse.
Ash (great to see him again) was probably one of the few people keen enough to see through it. And once he did, he had the know-how to figure out how to jump around, "awakening" other people.
Anyway, I really liked the episode. I actually liked God's response. It seems pretty obvious to me that he's testing mankind's mettle more than truly being despondent and forlorn. That, or he actually is in a funk and the only way to snap him out of it is to prove that his allegedly greatest creation -- man -- can overcome the approaching Apocalypse.
So your reward for free will is to spend an eternity in the stupor of your memories?
Checkmate
Commodore
Or, should you awaken from it, they don't do anything at all to stop you from visiting others. If you have a soulmate, they also imply that you spend eternity with them. Everyone except for Dean (and potentially Sam, though he never commented on it) seemed to think it was a pretty nice deal. That includes Ash who presumably woke up from the dream early on. Heaven is also less a reward and more a lack of punishment. Your life on Earth is where free will reigns supreme, not the kingdom of Heaven.
And I don't know about you, but I'd rather exist in a neverending dream of bliss than spend eternity going through what Dean did in Hell.
And I don't know about you, but I'd rather exist in a neverending dream of bliss than spend eternity going through what Dean did in Hell.
I thought tonight's episode was thought provoking, in a few ways. The whole philosophical 'what is heaven/the after life really like' idea, and what is god really like (I liked Joshua calling him a 'fellow gardner').
Also gave some interesting character insights and a tiny bit more background, I guess.
Not too surprising that despite all his 'I'm not that person anymore' claims Sam still clings to his memories of being 'normal'. Maybe he isn't so different from the character we met in the pilot after all. I'd always figured that Sam would have tried to 'get out' earlier than 18, interesting to have it confirmed.
Poor Dean. Kripke just keeps piling it on, doesn't he? I always postulated that John and Mary probably had a rocky marriage (John just seems that kind of guy that has trouble with emotional relationships like that), sad that even at 4 Dean recognized that. Now he has yet another 'absent father' issue, plus salt back in the wounds about Sam's leaving him for Stanford. That throwing away of the neckace at the end...so symbolic of his current emotional state. I wonder if he meant it as a snub at Sam as well (kinda hard not to interpret it that way).
I'm beginning to think Michael may get his way before too long if Team Free Will can't pull themselves back together after this incident. At least Dean knows that any innocents will likely end up in a happy place and those that do go to heaven are generally at peace.
Also gave some interesting character insights and a tiny bit more background, I guess.
Not too surprising that despite all his 'I'm not that person anymore' claims Sam still clings to his memories of being 'normal'. Maybe he isn't so different from the character we met in the pilot after all. I'd always figured that Sam would have tried to 'get out' earlier than 18, interesting to have it confirmed.
Poor Dean. Kripke just keeps piling it on, doesn't he? I always postulated that John and Mary probably had a rocky marriage (John just seems that kind of guy that has trouble with emotional relationships like that), sad that even at 4 Dean recognized that. Now he has yet another 'absent father' issue, plus salt back in the wounds about Sam's leaving him for Stanford. That throwing away of the neckace at the end...so symbolic of his current emotional state. I wonder if he meant it as a snub at Sam as well (kinda hard not to interpret it that way).
I'm beginning to think Michael may get his way before too long if Team Free Will can't pull themselves back together after this incident. At least Dean knows that any innocents will likely end up in a happy place and those that do go to heaven are generally at peace.
heaven is what you expect it to be.... until you finally realize that... "there has to be more to this then that...."
but then your talking to a spiritualist.... I was a week old when I sat in my first sceance... I'm 50 now... and I've seen things.... well... I'm a believer... and you are going to get what you think you expect....
Between Bobby emotionally abandoning them and this, team free will has been stripped bare of all support. Story of Job, anyone? I can see Sam giving the amulet back to Dean at some point (surely he fished it out of the trash) to signify the rebirth of their relationship. Or maybe I'm just a sap but that's a moment I can see.
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