Spoilers Supernatural season 14

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by auntiehill, Oct 12, 2018.

  1. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    Well, this was a good episode and I enjoyed it a lot-- although, for a 300th episode and the return of John, it was kind of low key.

    The good part, of course, is that John returned and the boys got to talk to him and say things that they never got to say in the past-- and, fortunately, they were able to include Mary in this brief reunion. I'm glad that Sam and Dean got to resolve some of their issues, and I hope this is felt in future episodes. It was great to watch them all together, and to see John learn about everything that has happened in the past fourteen years-- he just wanted to kill Yellow Eyes, but his kids have gone on to save the world and pal around with Chuck. It was good that they didn't dwell too much on the changes to the timeline or turn it into some world-ending Apocalypse-- it was just enough to let them know that John had to go back and they had to make the most of their time together, which left them more time for the character interactions that we've been waiting all these years to see. Which brings us to the less good....

    The episode spent an awful lot of time on those kids for absolutely no reason at all. They didn't figure into John's story a bit. It was almost like there were two mini stories in a single episode, like an episode of Phineas and Ferb (not that I don't love Phineas and Ferb). Maybe these kids are going to be showing up in future episodes, but I would have preferred that this entire story dwell on John being back with his wife and kids.

    The other thing that disappointed me a bit is that the John they met was plucked from the past. I was hoping to find out where John disappeared to and why he wasn't found in Heaven. In fact, I was hoping for kind of a big revelation there, maybe one that figured into the Michael plotline. Well, who knows, maybe we will still find out someday that John went to the Big Empty or, better yet, some other special place reserved for the best of the best.

    And I wonder if this episode might not have some other repercussions further down the road. The fact that John remembered his time trip as a dream was kind of sweet-- but what if he considered the possibility that it was more than a dream and took some sort of action as a result, something that will make itself known when Sam and Dean try to find a way around Billie's one and only solution to the Michael Crisis.
     
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  2. auntiehill

    auntiehill The Blueness Premium Member

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    Finally! A new episode tonight--feels like it's been ages.

    [​IMG]
     
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  3. tnpir4002

    tnpir4002 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Tonight's episode was, in a word, a snooze. Yes, the concept of a Gorgon was intriguing, but it should've been its own standalone installment. And I know I've said it before, but holy cow was it painfully obvious tonight how badly they've nerfed Cas. First Rowena's spell affected him...forgiveable since the Book of the Damned was in play...then he couldn't seem to see demons...and then tonight he couldn't heal Dean...and now he gets taken down by snake venom? To put this in perspective, by the time the snake guy was dealt with, it was 38 minutes into the hour, but I was thinking we were already at the end of the show. That's bad.

    Then let's talk about the angel storyline. This part was actually a lot better executed, if a bit hokey. How precisely did Michael get out of Dean's vessel without anyone seeing him? We saw in season 12 that archangels are impossible to miss, and then when Jack forced him out of Rowena, we saw exactly what we should've seen. So...what gives?

    Then let's talk about the last minute. It's obvious that after Jack used his powers to smite Michael, he absorbed his grace...alright, but why did that work when Gabriel's grace didn't earlier in the season?

    The one thing that they absolutely got right was showing Jack's wings at the end of the show. I'm surprised, candidly, that we've seen angel wings twice in one season (I think that's a first). Between that and Jack's golden irises, it was an effective way to show his powers have been restored.

    So what's next? It looks like we're in for a redux of "The Song Remains the Same" next week. I'm hoping it's not just a throwaway episode.
     
  4. auntiehill

    auntiehill The Blueness Premium Member

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    I have to say...they crammed WAY too much stuff into this episode. All that build up with Michael and then...that's it? What the hell. I guess I'll have to wait and see how this plays out.
     
  5. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Jack probably used the last of his soul doing that.
     
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  6. Enterprise is Great

    Enterprise is Great Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not sure I buy it that Michael is dead. It seemed a little too easy.
     
  7. tnpir4002

    tnpir4002 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Had it not been for how easily Jack was able to smite Apocalypse angels last year I might agree, but seeing him effortlessly swat them multiple times, plus how much of a beatdown he gave Alt!Michael in the season finale last year. Then there's the fact that, as Lucifer put it, "anger can be a powerful motivator."

    Add to that the fact that when Jack killed him, Michael wasn't in a vessel; it's been heavily implied that angels that aren't in vessels are extremely vulnerable on Earth, and it's not a big leap to extend that to archangels. It was the first time we've seen an angel/archangel die outside a vessel, but the visual is commensurate with what happened to Lucifer in last year's season finale, so I tend to believe he is genuinely gone.

    Prediction on what happens next? Jack likely burned away the rest of his soul this week, which will lead him down a darker path, concluding with him resurrecting Lucifer. I have this feeling that he'll turn out to be too much bad even for Lucifer, leading to a season 15 that sees father versus son. It foregoes the rescue of Adam!Michael, but maybe next season...
     
  8. Doc Mugatu

    Doc Mugatu Captain Captain

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    That was my thinking. He had the same look Sam had when he came back minus his soul. Maybe Jack finishes out the season as the big bad?
     
  9. Doc Mugatu

    Doc Mugatu Captain Captain

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    You could be right, but kind of tired of Lucifer. Hoping they'd give him a rest. Though it could be interesting juxtaposition between a soulless Jack and a resurrected Lucifer. It is being reported that a fan favorite is returning at season's end (not Crowley). I'm thinking maybe Chuck or Adam?
     
  10. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    I definitely do not believe that the Michael storyline is over yet, and not just because there are a few episodes left in the season. There is still Billie's warning, and nothing has happened to imply that it has been invalidated somehow-- unless she was just lying to begin with. Either Michael has tricked everyone somehow (perhaps by slipping into Jack hidden in the Grace like a Trojan), or Jack will be corrupted by Michael's grace. I don't think the Lucifer-Nick story is over yet either, and I still believe they will be tied together by season's end.

    But as far as this episode goes, I got a big kick out of Sam and Rowena playing a married couple-- Rowena really got into her roleplaying. :rommie: And how did Jack manage to keep his clothes when changing back and forth into a puppy? I know of one person who was very disappointed in that, and I'm sure there were many others. I also liked the fact that the Gorgon was a connoisseur cannibal. I've always wondered why monsters are such messy eaters. Werewolves I can understand, but why do Vampires always have to make a mess?

    I was very disappointed to see the alternate-world Hunters slaughtered. I'm hoping that Jack can save them with his newly restored powers.
     
  11. tnpir4002

    tnpir4002 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    CAS: "Oh no, his head exploded. Like a ripe melon on the sun."

    CAS: "It was an apt metaphor."
    SAM: "Yeah, well next time, try to be a little less...apt."

    Multiple priceless lines tonight already and we're just a few minutes in. Cautiously optimistic about this week's show.
     
  12. tnpir4002

    tnpir4002 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Coming next week: another MotW episode. After the questions raised tonight? Really???

    /Tonight's show: A-. The only thing wrong in my book was that once again Cas feels way too nerfed. He held his own in the diner, but where was telekinesis to fling his attackers back? Where was the angelic threat display (even broken wings would terrify people that had never seen an angel before). I was actually fairly disappointed when he didn't smite Dr. Lee...sorry, the mayor.
     
  13. auntiehill

    auntiehill The Blueness Premium Member

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    More like an earlier-season monster of the week episode: lots of charm, lots of set-up, lots of foreshadowing.

    Is it weird I was more upset about the snake than any of the people in the town?
     
  14. tnpir4002

    tnpir4002 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I hate snakes but I felt that too. Forgetting its origins, it was a defenseless animal that (far as we saw) hadn't hurt anyone. Yes, Jack had good intentions and was trying to do the right thing, but it came at the expense of an innocent life. In a way it's the realization of one of Jack's early fears, that his powers might unintentionally hurt someone else. Judging by Cas' horrified expression at the end, we're definitely in for Something Big before the season ends.

    (I'd say my prediction was probably right--Soulless!Jack is going to end up the villain of the season.)
     
  15. auntiehill

    auntiehill The Blueness Premium Member

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    ^ it certainly seems to be headed that way.
     
  16. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wasn’t a fan of last week’s episode but I liked this one. I also thought it was the milkshakes.
    I love how they brought back Dean’s fear of snakes in this one.
     
  17. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    Jack has definitely been damaged by everything that's happened to him, but it remains to be seen exactly how and what the consequences will be. Is his entire soul gone or just part of it? And what does that mean? Donatello has no soul and he's not evil-- just kind of sad. When Jack killed his pet, he demonstrated that he still has compassion, but seems to lack any empathy (of course, he would be considered a Millennial, based on his apparent age :rommie:). And it still seems to me that the Michael storyline was wrapped up too quickly, so I'm still considering the possibility that Michael is secretly possessing Jack or that he had Evil Grace that is corrupting Jack. But I still feel like we must see both Michael and Lucifer-- or at least Nick-- before season's end.

    Overall, this was a good episode, with lots of Supernatural character humor. I loved Dean awkwardly trying to be paternal and testing out Jack with the Angel and Devil snacks. :rommie: And Sam and Cass partnered up in the 1950s town was hilarious. Cass is not quite the naive bumpkin that he used to be, but he is still not the go-to guy for sensitive social situations-- and it seems like he has no Angel powers at all now for some reason.

    And it looks like all the interdimensional Hunters are dead forever. I'm surprised that Jack did not have Archangel resurrection powers-- I wish they had at least mentioned it or addressed it somehow.
     
  18. Farscape One

    Farscape One Commodore Commodore

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    My memory may be off, but I can't recall a human who was killed by an angel or archangel ever being brought back. Maybe when an angel kills a human, it's a total death... the equivalent of dropping a nuke vs. throwing a knife.
     
  19. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    That could very well be. A line of dialogue to that effect would have been helpful, though, especially since Lucifer had so recently resurrected Maggie (I think it was Maggie).
     
  20. thribs

    thribs Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think Cas has powers, but to use them on humans is lethal and so he limits them.