Supernatural, season 11 *SPOILERS!*

[tnpir4002]

I've seen the topic raised in all the recaps, so I'll raise it here...but can Lucifer possess Jimmy if Castiel is already possessing him (or at least his body)? Does that mean Cas is essentially in the same position as a human soul now, present but buried? Or did he and Lucifer switch places, leaving Cas in the cage?

It's just one of those headscratchers that makes you wonder. I presume this will be addressed in the future.

 

[Arrrrgggh]

Hasn't it been established that Jimmy has long since been dead dead, and Castiel is Jimmy's body? Particularly since God reconstituted him after the Cage incident.

 

[auntiehill]

Yes, it was specifically stated when Cas met Jimmy's daughter; Jimmy is long gone. Plus, we also got to see Jimmy and his wife finally get some kind of happy ending when their souls are reunited in heaven. Jimmy's not just dead; he's at peace and his story-arc is complete.

 

[tnpir4002]

No no no, I know Jimmy's soul is in heaven. What I'm referring to specifically is Castiel's angelic essence. Remember that in "Road Trip" (9x10), Dean was trying to get Cas to possess Sam/Gadreel to help expel Gadreel. That suggested to me that Cas' angelic essence is no different now than any other angel's, and that without it, Jimmy's body is just an empty shell. (Kind of like what we saw of Crowley's meatsuit in the same episode.)

So the question is...does this mean that Cas' angelic presence is simply buried (like Jimmy's soul was before Stull Cemetery), or did his angelic essence simply switch places with Lucifer's?

 

[auntiehill]

OH...you mean like a Freaky Friday, as opposed to a possession?

I'm assuming that, since Cas had to say "yes" to be occupied, that it's more like a possession. Cas is still in there, somewhere, just like when Luci used Sam as a vessel. Luci, actually, doesn't have a body. He just looks like the last guy he possessed, even though that body technically was "burning away" soon after being possessed. He just looks like Pellegrino b/c he, you know, has to look like SOMETHING so the viewers know it's him. So there wouldn't actually be a body for a Freaky Friday situation to take place.

Luci needs a vessel to walk around in. Whoever he takes is shoved somewhere in the background while Luci does whatever he wants.

 

[Kemaiku]

Both Castiel and Lucy seem to be wearing a generic meatsuit that no longer has any other occupant but themselves, similar to a Demon now. It looks like over time or with the right conditions, a soul is burned off or released leaving only the shell.

Cas said that when he was exploded in season 5, God brought back the body but let Jimmy go to Heaven. The Cage being deep in Hell, I can only assume that the 'vessels strong enough to house them' idea of an Archangel might have a time limit in those conditions. With probably means Adam is gone too.

Lucy could well be lying when he says he would be smoke on Earth, although I don't know why, he just needs any host that can hold him to start wreaking havoc again. Which raises the point of whether Cas' new body, Seraph or not, can hold him for long, or if he'll need to body hop again. (Maybe part of the deal is, the Cage binds both the soul and shell, so even if he smoked out, the vessel would stay so he has to take any new body that isn't glued to it.)

And I have no idea if two Angels can occupy one body, as that would seriously burn it up in a short time.

 

[auntiehill]

^That's a good point. Both are angels and Luci certainly has more juice than Cas. How long could a body hold out while containing both an angel and an archangel?

 

[Kemaiku]

I know, Seraph and Archangel, it wouldn't hold. Then again he hasn't left Hell yet.

If they did swap, I assume they have to do a swap back as part of the finale. Maybe tricking Amara in some way that ends up trapping her in the Cage too.

 

[JD]

This was a great premiere.
The stuff with Sam and Lucifer in Hell was good, I liked the little trip through Sam's past.
I don't hate Rowena as much as a lot of people, but I was starting to get tired of her so I'm not sad to see her go.
I did not see the end coming, it looks like Lucifer in Castiel should be fun.
I got a big kick out of the Reaper reading Death, and the reference to Lucifer. So does that mean that they get network TV in hell?

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

I really enjoyed tonight's episode. Robbie Thompson can do no wrong, in my opinion.

Next week: the return of Sheriff Mills and her girls!

 

[auntiehill]

I really liked this episode, too. Great supporting characters in Dee Wallace and the deaf "legacy," Eileen. I hope we at least see Eileen again. I also really like Misha playing Lucifer playing Cas. The scene where Dean has a heart-to-heart with Casifer (Luciel?) was nicely done, too.

All in all, this was a very solid monster-of-the-week episode.

Best line: Dean describing Viagra theft as a "dick move."

 

[Gryffindorian]

I liked the episode although it had a slightly different take on banshees from Irish folklore. Eating someone's brain, really? What an endearing character, that sweet old woman played by Dee Wallace. Her name wasn't listed on IMDB, so I'm glad you mentioned her. She was projecting this Ann Murray vibe, and I like her songs.

 

[auntiehill]

^Dee Wallace, previously Dee Wallace Stone. She's fairly well-known, at least to old-timers like me. She played the mom in E.T. and Cujo, not to mention being a "scream queen" in the '80s, starring in films like The Howling and Critters.

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

Dee Wallace did a great job with her role. I wouldn't mind seeing either of the ladies from last night's episode again on the show.

My favorite line: "I was hoping it would be zombies...Get my Walking Dead on!"

 

[auntiehill]

I also liked how Dean slipped that bottle of Viagra into his pocket when Sam wasn't looking.

Also, the Golden Girls references. But the idea of Sam and Sophia.....ew.

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

Long-time Supernatural fans may want to watch this Monday's new X-Files episode.

It contains a nice tribute to the late Kim Manners, who directed a ton of X-Files shows and a good number of Supernatural episodes from the first four seasons before passing away much too young.

 

[tnpir4002]

Some interesting tidbits about "The Vessel," episode #14 which is set to air on February 17th. Read:
http://www.enstarz.com/articles/138...will-lucifer-will-send-dean-to-wwii-video.htm
http://cartermatt.com/193460/supern...ers-could-jensen-ackles-dean-go-back-in-time/

Again, maybe I'm stuck in the past too much, but...this sounds like something that's only possible because Lucifer is present. Since angels still can't teleport, my assumption is that they wouldn't be able to travel through time either--but clearly, Metatron's spell didn't affect Lucifer, since he apported Sam and Cas and Dean into his cell like it was nothing.

Wishing they'd hurry up and reverse Metatron's spell and make me (and viewers like me) happy.

 

[Kemaiku]

Heaven's Gates are slammed closed, apparently there needs be a literal big enough apature for that power to connect to Angels on Earth, and just wandering around Heaven won't fix them since they were burned outside of it.

Someone needs to punch a hole in Heaven and reboot the soul power system for them to heal fully. I don't think that's really a good idea.

 

[auntiehill]

Hmmm..... That was a pretty typical "Monster of the Week" episode...very predictable and fairly ho-hum. I love Jodi but she's kind of wasted here. Nice to see her in Mom-mode again.

On the good side, lots of humor, from the Elvis burger to the "Are you really going---WOW. We totally went there" moment at the dinner table.

All in all, pretty darn average.

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

It was interesting to see Sheriff Jodi and her Home for Wayward Girls, but auntiehill is right. The story lacked a little originality in its execution.

I'm officially liking the Claire Novak character now. She reminds me a bit of Jo Harvelle in season two.

The Alex character has been put through enough, but I'd still like to see more of her development on the show.

More Jodi on the show is always a good thing.

If Eileen from last week's episode were to join Jodi's household, then the producers would have a pretty good foundation for a spin-off series.