SUPERMAN II..Donner Cut

[Chrisisall]

I've made my reasoning very clear. One thing that drives me up the wall in movies is, well, erratic pacing.

Blade Runner, STTMP & Ghandi must have had you squirming then...

if he can fly around the world so fast that he turns back time himself, he can't catch two friggin' missiles?

Okay *cracks knuckles* here it is.
If he were to fly at speeds that he did to turn time back IN EARTH'S ATMO to catch the Cali missle, he'd rip away our mountains & super-heat the air- not good. You still have to take into account that although he's super-smart, he's also emotionally inexperienced, relatively speaking, and all that was going on was damaging his potentially amazing multi-tasking abilities. He's like you or me with a physical & intellectual boost, but still human at the core.
See, at the heart of it, Donner wanted us to see the real man beneath the powers, Lester was content with giving us a slightly more realistic 60's era Batman-like character, which he made perfectly clear in his Superman III.

Well, yeah. I'm glad he didn't have complete control over this. I'm glad he had to work with what Donner set up. I fully acknowledge Richard Lester would have destroyed this film beyond belief had he been working on it from the start. My criticism is not of the film as Donner intended it, but of the special restored cut.

It's not really a "film," but a really cool fan-cut, an amazing bunch of new material, to be absorbed as one sees fit, IMO.

I give both films four stars. And while I'm a fan boy, I rarely praise Superhero flicks so highly.

I appreciate that as a fellow Supefan, I would actually agree on that assessment!

 

[Newski]

I've made my reasoning very clear. One thing that drives me up the wall in movies is, well, erratic pacing.

Blade Runner, STTMP & Ghandi must have had you squirming then...

Actually, yes. Blade Runner and Superman I can forgive to an extent... Blade Runner wasn't too bad, though.

if he can fly around the world so fast that he turns back time himself, he can't catch two friggin' missiles?

Okay *cracks knuckles* here it is.
If he were to fly at speeds that he did to turn time back IN EARTH'S ATMO to catch the Cali missle, he'd rip away our mountains & super-heat the air- not good. You still have to take into account that although he's super-smart, he's also emotionally inexperienced, relatively speaking, and all that was going on was damaging his potentially amazing multi-tasking abilities. He's like you or me with a physical & intellectual boost, but still human at the core.
See, at the heart of it, Donner wanted us to see the real man beneath the powers, Lester was content with giving us a slightly more realistic 60's era Batman-like character, which he made perfectly clear in his Superman III.

Well, I'm not saying he should fly that fast. I am saying he could do the task, and I believe Donner had him able to do it. Which makes gives us a dual edged sword- Turn back time in the first film, no adequate build up. Turn back time in the second, then the climax suffers in the first.

 

[Chrisisall]

Well, I'm not saying he should fly that fast. I am saying he could do the task, and I believe Donner had him able to do it.

Also, pushing the missle into space too quickly could have detonated it due to the friction with the atmo- there are SO many considerations, I can't fault a FRAME of the first flick.

Which makes gives us a dual edged sword- Turn back time in the first film, no adequate build up. Turn back time in the second, then the climax suffers in the first.

Yeah, but Donner & the Mank were gonna think up something cool for the second climax, however the salkinds (small S on purpose) just didn't wanna deal. Lester equaled on-budget in thier book.
And that's all she wrote.

 

[Neopeius]

Also, pushing the missle into space too quickly could have detonated it due to the friction with the atmo- there are SO many considerations, I can't fault a FRAME of the first flick.

Does it matter particularly if the missile is detonated high in the atmosphere? We used to do that all the time. Project ARGUS.

Really, it was just sloppy writing. I grew up with the first movie--I saw it in the theater when I was 4, possibly the first film I ever saw, but even then I thought it was silly.

 

[Prydonian]

And then, they have the bar fight at the end. Where Superman goes to a bar, picks a fight with people who, in this altered time line, have done nothing wrong, just to prove a point. To who? What's he doing that for? Is Superman just a cosmic asshole?

But surely this is the film just remaining faithful to the source material!

http://www.superdickery.com/

 

[Chrisisall]

I grew up with the first movie--I saw it in the theater when I was 4, possibly the first film I ever saw, but even then I thought it was silly.

You were a very technically-minded little kid!

BTW Neo, have you ever had a nuclear missile's tailpipe in your nose like Superman did? Huh, didn't think so. It's distracting.

 

[Neopeius]

I grew up with the first movie--I saw it in the theater when I was 4, possibly the first film I ever saw, but even then I thought it was silly.

You were a very technically-minded little kid!

I was, actually. I was also terrified by the film's climax. I lived on the San Andreas at the time, and we had big earthquakes all the time.

Most disaster movies blow up New York or L.A. This one blew up my home town!

BTW Neo, have you ever had a nuclear missile's tailpipe in your nose like Superman did? Huh, didn't think so. It's distracting.

For Superman?!?

 

[miraclefan]

I just look at this version as a 2 hour "deleted scenes" special feature. It doesn't work as a film at all, especially with the amateurish editing.

It's not evan a whole movie? I thought it was the Donner cut intercut with the other guys?

 

[Galactus]

I just wanted to say as always that Superman III is a very good film. Was then still is. Carry on.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I just look at this version as a 2 hour "deleted scenes" special feature. It doesn't work as a film at all, especially with the amateurish editing.

It's not evan a whole movie? I thought it was the Donner cut intercut with the other guys?

It is a whole movie, but just barely. And yes, some of the Lester cut remains, bits that Donner never got the chance to film.

 

[Broccoli]

I just wanted to say as always that Superman III is a very good film. Was then still is. Carry on.

I'll defend Superman III. It's not great and the camp aspect goes a little far (Richard Pryor falling off a building and surviving on skates). But the Smallville sequences are really good as is the "Dark Superman" aspect.

 

[miraclefan]

I just wanted to say as always that Superman III is a very good film. Was then still is. Carry on.

I'll defend Superman III. It's not great and the camp aspect goes a little far (Richard Pryor falling off a building and surviving on skates). But the Smallville sequences are really good as is the "Dark Superman" aspect.

Why did warners think it would be a good idea to have Pryor in the movie to begin with?

 

[Broccoli]

I just wanted to say as always that Superman III is a very good film. Was then still is. Carry on.

I'll defend Superman III. It's not great and the camp aspect goes a little far (Richard Pryor falling off a building and surviving on skates). But the Smallville sequences are really good as is the "Dark Superman" aspect.

Why did warners think it would be a good idea to have Pryor in the movie to begin with?

The popular story goes that apparently Pryor was a guest on the Tonight Show and stated that he loved Superman II and would love to be in a future Superman movie. That got the powers that be thinking.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

I think Superman III works as a really weak Richard Pryor movie or as half of a Superman movie.

As for the Donner Cut: Loved it. It works best when viewed back-to-back with Superman I. All the romantic stuff was handled better in SI than it was in the Lester SII so that provides the emotional background for TDC. TDC is simply the follow-through for SI.

I like the repetition with the time travel. In SI Superman's time travel is a selfish act. Changing the past to save the woman he loved. In TDC his time travel is a seflless act to sacrifice his relationship with the woman he loves for the good of the world. Also you could see the end of SI as Superman rejecting Jor-El's plan for him whereas with TDC he's finally accepting his father's vision.

 

[Mysterion]

I actually don't care for either version of Superman II. Or the other sequels for that matter. Don't get me started on Superman Returns.

Superman - the Movie is wonderful. It's fun, it respects the source material, it's got a great cast. they shoulda stopped right there, IMO.

SII just looks cheap and thrown together to me. Always has. Especially compared to the first film.

 

[Shazam!]

I don't think the finale of the first movie would have suffered as the real ending would be release of the Kryptonians from the Phantom Zone and not Superman grabbing a couple of missiles. It was supposed to be a cliffhangerand would have worked extremely well. I'm surprised a recut Superman wasn't included with the Donner cut (which is a superior movie to Lester's even with some dodgy editing and pacing issues).

 

[Harvey]

Superman II is at best an incomplete film in need of revision in any version outside of the Dick Lester cut. And that version is okay--it's definitely one of the best sequels to a comic book movie out there. But I'm confident Donner's version could have been better--if he had been allowed to properly complete the film. As it stands, 25% of the film isn't his, and would have been completely different. The end is only temporary, and would have had to be completely re-written and re-shot. The scene where Superman's secret is revealed is just a screen test as a placeholder awaiting the final scene. And the music is just a temp track derived from the first film.

The Donner Cut is an interesting oddity, and I'm happy to own it on DVD (well, HD-DVD...whoops!), but it's never going to take the place of anything. It's a well-made special feature that happens to be pretty watchable. That's all.